Outsourcing manufacture to China.
Discussion
Does anyone here have experience with moving product manufacture from the UK to China?
Currently my business buys in special order materials made by local companies, which are all very high quality and done on low order quantities, however they are very very expensive.
There's nothing particularly complex, just a plain matte black anodised plaque and a good quality presentation box.
The box should be easy enough to sort as it's fairly standard stuff, but the plaques are a little more specific. Rather than use thin off the shelf stock which is cut after anodising, we have a thicker 3mm stock which is laser cut, ground to a brushed finish and then anodised (black on all faces, even the edges).
Currently these are made by two UK companies, the first one supplies, laser cuts and brushes the metal, the other does the anodising. All in, the supply chain is around 4-5 weeks.
I need to start looking for a company that can produce an exact replica of the product we currently have made but in larger quantities at a much lower price and hopefully, a faster turnaround (although less crucial if we're ordering larger qunatities).
I'm just not really sure where to start. Is Alibaba.com the best place to start? Are there UK companies that specialise is setting these kind of deals up? If there are, are they worth using?
Currently my business buys in special order materials made by local companies, which are all very high quality and done on low order quantities, however they are very very expensive.
There's nothing particularly complex, just a plain matte black anodised plaque and a good quality presentation box.
The box should be easy enough to sort as it's fairly standard stuff, but the plaques are a little more specific. Rather than use thin off the shelf stock which is cut after anodising, we have a thicker 3mm stock which is laser cut, ground to a brushed finish and then anodised (black on all faces, even the edges).
Currently these are made by two UK companies, the first one supplies, laser cuts and brushes the metal, the other does the anodising. All in, the supply chain is around 4-5 weeks.
I need to start looking for a company that can produce an exact replica of the product we currently have made but in larger quantities at a much lower price and hopefully, a faster turnaround (although less crucial if we're ordering larger qunatities).
I'm just not really sure where to start. Is Alibaba.com the best place to start? Are there UK companies that specialise is setting these kind of deals up? If there are, are they worth using?
I wouldn't risk it, Chinese quality seems to be going through one of its regular dips right now. Even when its going well they manage to make surprising cock-ups. If going to China you will have to fund it all up front.
If you are going for larger quantities it is worth punting it about in the UK, companies that suit small batches don't suit larger, and vice versa. You can control quality, you should get at least 30 days credit and I'd be surprised if you couldn't get the lead time down too.
Any decent sheet metal company should be able to knock out the panels to the quality you want. There are some very good cosmetic anodisers about. I presume you are then silkscreen printing or lasering the artwork yourself.
If you are going for larger quantities it is worth punting it about in the UK, companies that suit small batches don't suit larger, and vice versa. You can control quality, you should get at least 30 days credit and I'd be surprised if you couldn't get the lead time down too.
Any decent sheet metal company should be able to knock out the panels to the quality you want. There are some very good cosmetic anodisers about. I presume you are then silkscreen printing or lasering the artwork yourself.
Ean218 said:
Any decent sheet metal company should be able to knock out the panels to the quality you want. There are some very good cosmetic anodisers about. I presume you are then silkscreen printing or lasering the artwork yourself.
Yes we do the laser engraving in house.Actually I asked about quite a few companies and because of the combination of finishing we require, we couldn't find a single company to do it all.
We've actually got two suppliers for the metal, both offer the 30 day terms but the prices are just too bloody high and it makes our product prohibitively expensive for the vast majority!
One of my companies makes aerospace labels, we do a very similar size plaque as the one you have in your picture for Safran Landing Systems.
We import the sheets half anodised, cut them to size, screen print the black on, seal the aluminium and then laser mark the information on.
I don't have a picture of the plate to hand but the effect is this:
http://www.vitalsigns.co.uk/img/gallery/gallery23....
Excuse the horrific picture quality
We import the sheets half anodised, cut them to size, screen print the black on, seal the aluminium and then laser mark the information on.
I don't have a picture of the plate to hand but the effect is this:
http://www.vitalsigns.co.uk/img/gallery/gallery23....
Excuse the horrific picture quality
Edited by Christmassss on Thursday 11th May 17:09
Oh and in relation to the topic in hand...Manufacturing in China...my only experience is of a well known aerospace manufacture moving all of their production to china in early 2015....
They have just moved it all back to the Uk as of beginning of 2017.
Quality and communication issues were the reason for the incredibly expensive move back
They have just moved it all back to the Uk as of beginning of 2017.
Quality and communication issues were the reason for the incredibly expensive move back
Christmassss said:
Oh and in relation to the topic in hand...Manufacturing in China...my only experience is of a well known aerospace manufacture moving all of their production to china in early 2015....
They have just moved it all back to the Uk as of beginning of 2017.
Quality and communication issues were the reason for the incredibly expensive move back
Hornby had the same experience.They have just moved it all back to the Uk as of beginning of 2017.
Quality and communication issues were the reason for the incredibly expensive move back
I would worry about sending it off to China then within a year sites like alibaba suddenly being flooded with cheaper clones of your product, happens quite often with aftermarket aluminum parts and the end results look pretty decent even if they are a deathtrap (have compared side by side very recently an aluminium towing eye that cost £40 and a clone that was a fiver).
untakenname said:
I would worry about sending it off to China then within a year sites like alibaba suddenly being flooded with cheaper clones of your product, happens quite often with aftermarket aluminum parts and the end results look pretty decent even if they are a deathtrap (have compared side by side very recently an aluminium towing eye that cost £40 and a clone that was a fiver).
This!For engineered products like that you could do worse than going the other way around the world. The USA and Canada are very good st this kind of stuff, and their customer service and lead times are phenomenal.
There's a place in Nova Scotia that we use, we placed an order for a product on a Monday afternoon uk time (so morning there), for something to be made to our drawings (which admittedly we had pre agreed and finalised with them). It arrived on the Wednesday morning!
In the uk we would still be waiting for a response to the email.
The only thing is it might not be cheaper. Cheap isn't necessarily a good thing in my experience though.
There's a place in Nova Scotia that we use, we placed an order for a product on a Monday afternoon uk time (so morning there), for something to be made to our drawings (which admittedly we had pre agreed and finalised with them). It arrived on the Wednesday morning!
In the uk we would still be waiting for a response to the email.
The only thing is it might not be cheaper. Cheap isn't necessarily a good thing in my experience though.
KevinCamaroSS said:
untakenname said:
I would worry about sending it off to China then within a year sites like alibaba suddenly being flooded with cheaper clones of your product, happens quite often with aftermarket aluminum parts and the end results look pretty decent even if they are a deathtrap (have compared side by side very recently an aluminium towing eye that cost £40 and a clone that was a fiver).
This!A few problems with that:
1) it was for an aircraft so had to go through extensive QC like metal quality etc
2) it would only be bought by the aircraft manufacturer
3) you could only make it if you had the plans
I think it depends on what grade material your using for the plaque - it may be more expensive to procure that grade in China if very high quality Alloy - assuming its Aluminium Alloy? I Manage Supply Chain Quality for a Worldwide Aerospace Tier 1 Supplier, and we sub contract a lot of work into China. The company I work for have opened two factories in China which make complex machined & fabricated parts that are fitted into commercial and Military applications for Airbus/Boeing/Rolls Royce, the level of quality is actually quite good.
Even low grade Aluminium Alloy can be made to look very nice with minimal CNC milling. I understand having a high quality plaque is crucial to your business model but if your using Aerospace grade material for example, your throwing money away.
Have you tried any Aerospace detail manufacturers in the UK ? There are a number of companies which could do the whole process for you in house and you would be gaining the expertise of a Quality Engineer who would be able to suggest the most cost effective way of making these plaques without affecting quality ie what types of material could achieve the finish you want with the least amount of work. And in my experience for a part like that there's not much labour required from a cost point of view. These kind of companies procure quality materials at very attractive rates and this cost saving would be passed down to you when quoting.
As other posters have stated there is a risk of your work being copied in China but, that's what Non Disclosure Agreements are for.
Even low grade Aluminium Alloy can be made to look very nice with minimal CNC milling. I understand having a high quality plaque is crucial to your business model but if your using Aerospace grade material for example, your throwing money away.
Have you tried any Aerospace detail manufacturers in the UK ? There are a number of companies which could do the whole process for you in house and you would be gaining the expertise of a Quality Engineer who would be able to suggest the most cost effective way of making these plaques without affecting quality ie what types of material could achieve the finish you want with the least amount of work. And in my experience for a part like that there's not much labour required from a cost point of view. These kind of companies procure quality materials at very attractive rates and this cost saving would be passed down to you when quoting.
As other posters have stated there is a risk of your work being copied in China but, that's what Non Disclosure Agreements are for.
Laser cutting is an expensive operation and requires an element of finishing, which will be why those costs are high.
I would move to a water jet operation instead. There are few that do it in the U.K. Though so the US is a better bet.
Most companies should be able to sort the whole process for you, not clear from your post whether that happens or not. Also look at a lesser Ali grade which will save you a small amount without compromising quality.
Anodizing is cheap but lots of small parts makes it more expensive as they are pain to handle, a good case study for you is Goodridge who get their fittings anodized at a very good price and great quality.
I would move to a water jet operation instead. There are few that do it in the U.K. Though so the US is a better bet.
Most companies should be able to sort the whole process for you, not clear from your post whether that happens or not. Also look at a lesser Ali grade which will save you a small amount without compromising quality.
Anodizing is cheap but lots of small parts makes it more expensive as they are pain to handle, a good case study for you is Goodridge who get their fittings anodized at a very good price and great quality.
I'd like to say the quality of your product is very high - you did a personalised one for me that I gave to my old man as a gift. It was great - when he opened it, he thought it was generic for the model of car. After a moment however he started to pick up on the personalised touches which he loved.
I was tempted which buying a bunch more for the rest of his collection however it becomes much more of an indulgence when you're buying loads of the bloody things! I will likely just drip feed them to him over a period of time!
Don't compromise the quality unless you really have to - you make a beautiful thing!
I wouldn't be too concerned about China copying your product - they don't need to be making it to copy the thing!
Can you bring any of the process in house - stop paying multiple lots of profit margin?
I was tempted which buying a bunch more for the rest of his collection however it becomes much more of an indulgence when you're buying loads of the bloody things! I will likely just drip feed them to him over a period of time!
Don't compromise the quality unless you really have to - you make a beautiful thing!
I wouldn't be too concerned about China copying your product - they don't need to be making it to copy the thing!
Can you bring any of the process in house - stop paying multiple lots of profit margin?
Bertrum said:
Laser cutting is an expensive operation and requires an element of finishing, which will be why those costs are high.
I would move to a water jet operation instead. There are few that do it in the U.K. Though so the US is a better bet.
Most companies should be able to sort the whole process for you, not clear from your post whether that happens or not. Also look at a lesser Ali grade which will save you a small amount without compromising quality.
Anodizing is cheap but lots of small parts makes it more expensive as they are pain to handle, a good case study for you is Goodridge who get their fittings anodized at a very good price and great quality.
Just to touch on the laser cutting, I use these guys for my laser cutting needs and they are super cheap, super good and have a decent lead time. They also do waterjet cuttingI would move to a water jet operation instead. There are few that do it in the U.K. Though so the US is a better bet.
Most companies should be able to sort the whole process for you, not clear from your post whether that happens or not. Also look at a lesser Ali grade which will save you a small amount without compromising quality.
Anodizing is cheap but lots of small parts makes it more expensive as they are pain to handle, a good case study for you is Goodridge who get their fittings anodized at a very good price and great quality.
Ean218 said:
I wouldn't risk it, Chinese quality seems to be going through one of its regular dips right now. Even when its going well they manage to make surprising cock-ups. If going to China you will have to fund it all up front.
If you are going for larger quantities it is worth punting it about in the UK, companies that suit small batches don't suit larger, and vice versa. You can control quality, you should get at least 30 days credit and I'd be surprised if you couldn't get the lead time down too.
Any decent sheet metal company should be able to knock out the panels to the quality you want. There are some very good cosmetic anodisers about. I presume you are then silkscreen printing or lasering the artwork yourself.
In a total different industry, I am having the same problem. We buy in quite a lot and I am so sick of the problem or variances in quality or mistakes that I am looking to possibly find someone in the UK, who will also protect your IP more. In china there are no rules. If you are going for larger quantities it is worth punting it about in the UK, companies that suit small batches don't suit larger, and vice versa. You can control quality, you should get at least 30 days credit and I'd be surprised if you couldn't get the lead time down too.
Any decent sheet metal company should be able to knock out the panels to the quality you want. There are some very good cosmetic anodisers about. I presume you are then silkscreen printing or lasering the artwork yourself.
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