Starting a track car hire business?
Discussion
Is there anyone on here who could offer any insight into the various insurances required for starting up a track car hire business?
I'm thinking of it being more of a sideline than my sole source of income in the early days. I'm an IT contractor but it's certainly not my passion. The cars would, however, need to pay really well to get me out of the profession. I can't see that being the case for at least a couple of years so I don't have any big dreams beyond just making a little bit of money from it initially.
I share a commercial premises so that's sorted. What else would I need? I'm thinking public liability is a given, but then insurance for the cars is trickier. It will likely be one car initially and something that won't have a huge yield, like a Clio 182 or similar. Am I going to need a trade policy or not at this point? Would the cars when on track be better off being insured for the day with a specialist insurer? And would you just pass off the excess of such a policy as the customer deposit?
I'm only at the start of this journey so I've probably asked some silly questions, but I appreciate any help.
I'm thinking of it being more of a sideline than my sole source of income in the early days. I'm an IT contractor but it's certainly not my passion. The cars would, however, need to pay really well to get me out of the profession. I can't see that being the case for at least a couple of years so I don't have any big dreams beyond just making a little bit of money from it initially.
I share a commercial premises so that's sorted. What else would I need? I'm thinking public liability is a given, but then insurance for the cars is trickier. It will likely be one car initially and something that won't have a huge yield, like a Clio 182 or similar. Am I going to need a trade policy or not at this point? Would the cars when on track be better off being insured for the day with a specialist insurer? And would you just pass off the excess of such a policy as the customer deposit?
I'm only at the start of this journey so I've probably asked some silly questions, but I appreciate any help.
I'd be really surprised if you could find anybody who would provide you with this insurance.
Earlier in the year, I considered getting into the premium car hire market. I already own two cars that would fit into that category, so figured I could dip my toe in without any significant outlay.
Unfortunately, the insurance market has changed (mostly due to so many crash for cash claims I think), and I couldn't find an insurer who would even consider me as a new business.
Considering that driving on a road is much less risky than driving on a track, I'd be amazed if you can find somebody who will provide this to you as a business. If you do, please give details and I'll revisit the car hire idea!
Earlier in the year, I considered getting into the premium car hire market. I already own two cars that would fit into that category, so figured I could dip my toe in without any significant outlay.
Unfortunately, the insurance market has changed (mostly due to so many crash for cash claims I think), and I couldn't find an insurer who would even consider me as a new business.
Considering that driving on a road is much less risky than driving on a track, I'd be amazed if you can find somebody who will provide this to you as a business. If you do, please give details and I'll revisit the car hire idea!
it wont be cheap but its doable...bear in mind the cost of track day cover for one track day in a £50k car is about £500
try these
http://www.competition-car-insurance.co.uk/product...
and this place is run by a PHer - Jeremy
http://www.paceward.com/motor/track-day-insurance
if they do track day insurance there is a chance they can sort this
try these
http://www.competition-car-insurance.co.uk/product...
and this place is run by a PHer - Jeremy
http://www.paceward.com/motor/track-day-insurance
if they do track day insurance there is a chance they can sort this
I have a friend who runs 3 BMW track cars - renting out seat space to drivers. Hr doesn't rent out for track days as such, but for race series - drivers have to have race licences etc. and my friend supplies the cars, pit crew, tyres, fuel etc.
He started a couple of years back with one car and is now running 3. I believe he asks €1500 per hour driven. He tells me he's not actually making much money, but that it pays enough that his (and his wife's) racing is effectively free..
Probably also helps that he has his own garage.
He started a couple of years back with one car and is now running 3. I believe he asks €1500 per hour driven. He tells me he's not actually making much money, but that it pays enough that his (and his wife's) racing is effectively free..
Probably also helps that he has his own garage.
davek_964 said:
Considering that driving on a road is much less risky than driving on a track,
Would love to see the source / stat for that. To my mind track driving is much less of an insurance risk than road driving - trackdays have overtaking rules, everyone driving in the same direction, you are only insuring for damage to your own vehicle, etc. etc. You might be able to get insurance, you might even be able to cover the premium, but I bet the excess will be crippling, meaning a crash could be crippling in more ways than one .
Couldn't you look into hosting trackdays, hiring out helmets? hiring out track cams? track day filming? maybe catering on track days?
I think there is money to be made in track days, but I for one wouldn't fancy trying to make it through hiring out cars.
Couldn't you look into hosting trackdays, hiring out helmets? hiring out track cams? track day filming? maybe catering on track days?
I think there is money to be made in track days, but I for one wouldn't fancy trying to make it through hiring out cars.
I asked a similar question on here a few years back, I now hire my Locust out for a race series, I keep the car simple so I can repair it easy and cheaply and just take a deposit (around 1000 pounds) from people I don't know, people I know I trust to pay for repair, never had to charge against the deposit, one guy over rev'ed the engine, missed gear on a down shift, and paid for a replacement, less an allowance for ware and tare, no problem.
Originally built the car for my daughter to race, when she finished with it it was effectively free, I modified it so I can get a good supply of used replacement engines, boxes etc from Japan, around 500 pound for a replacement engine. I wouldn't want to hire out anything that was expensive to repair, never make any money, but it does mean I get to race for free, and as I race in the same series I am there anyway.
Originally built the car for my daughter to race, when she finished with it it was effectively free, I modified it so I can get a good supply of used replacement engines, boxes etc from Japan, around 500 pound for a replacement engine. I wouldn't want to hire out anything that was expensive to repair, never make any money, but it does mean I get to race for free, and as I race in the same series I am there anyway.
48k said:
davek_964 said:
Considering that driving on a road is much less risky than driving on a track,
Would love to see the source / stat for that. To my mind track driving is much less of an insurance risk than road driving - trackdays have overtaking rules, everyone driving in the same direction, you are only insuring for damage to your own vehicle, etc. etc. 98elise said:
48k said:
davek_964 said:
Considering that driving on a road is much less risky than driving on a track,
Would love to see the source / stat for that. To my mind track driving is much less of an insurance risk than road driving - trackdays have overtaking rules, everyone driving in the same direction, you are only insuring for damage to your own vehicle, etc. etc. Well I've not had a reply to either of the email enquiries I sent to specialist insurers last week yet. I think a £1000 deposit and just insure it for the day for the driver(s) and trailer it to and from track would probably be the easiest option. I'm just not entirely sure if it's the right option.
I'd also be concerned that a deposit that high might put people off hiring. If the cars become more valuable over time, asking for £2k, £3k, £4k deposits etc. feels a bit extreme?
I'd also be concerned that a deposit that high might put people off hiring. If the cars become more valuable over time, asking for £2k, £3k, £4k deposits etc. feels a bit extreme?
TroubledSoul said:
I'd also be concerned that a deposit that high might put people off hiring. If the cars become more valuable over time, asking for £2k, £3k, £4k deposits etc. feels a bit extreme?
It should just focus the mind to not crash....I hired a GT86 at the Nurburgring, and that had a £9K excess!!
Bristol spark said:
It should just focus the mind to not crash....
I hired a GT86 at the Nurburgring, and that had a £9K excess!!
Wow! I suppose starting small with cheap cars is the way in more ways than one really. A smaller deposit like £1k would be palatable to many and allow me to build up some reputation, whereas a large deposit being asked by a company that's only existed two minutes would likely ring alarm bells. I hired a GT86 at the Nurburgring, and that had a £9K excess!!
TroubledSoul said:
Well I've not had a reply to either of the email enquiries I sent to specialist insurers last week yet. I think a £1000 deposit and just insure it for the day for the driver(s) and trailer it to and from track would probably be the easiest option. I'm just not entirely sure if it's the right option.
I'd also be concerned that a deposit that high might put people off hiring. If the cars become more valuable over time, asking for £2k, £3k, £4k deposits etc. feels a bit extreme?
When you say deposit, do you mean excess? Deposit would be a part payment towards the hire charge (eg. to secure the booking). Excess would be the maximum amount the customer would pay in the event of loss/damage. By way of reference, a Caterham Academy car (~20K car) from BaT has a £2500 excess, the 620R (~55K car) has a £5000 excess for the day. You only actually take the excess from the customer if there is a claim.I'd also be concerned that a deposit that high might put people off hiring. If the cars become more valuable over time, asking for £2k, £3k, £4k deposits etc. feels a bit extreme?
TroubledSoul said:
Well no, I meant refundable deposit of say £1000, and then if they don't crash the car they get that back. Is that a bad idea?
Depends on the terms with your merchant / card terminal provider and what %age you are charged per transaction. But broadly speaking yes it's not ideal to be regularly taking large payments and then refunding them.TroubledSoul said:
The other concern is that self insuring would leave me having to declare claims when I insure my own cars wouldn't it?
No. By self insuring I'm assuming that refers to me taking out a policy for the track day the car is booked for. I could do it in the hirer's name I suppose but I imagine the insurer would normally want to speak to them directly to do this and that's a level of hassle I wouldn't want to introduce.
If it were in my name and the hirer as a named driver and a claim resulted, how would I avoid this being something I have to declare?
Re; the deposit system, how on earth do other people do it when they take refundable deposits for things? This is not something I have any knowledge over whatsoever.
If it were in my name and the hirer as a named driver and a claim resulted, how would I avoid this being something I have to declare?
Re; the deposit system, how on earth do other people do it when they take refundable deposits for things? This is not something I have any knowledge over whatsoever.
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