Starting a business & conflict of interest
Discussion
Hi guys I'm looking for legal advice here,
Atm I work for my father in the amusement machine supply sector and I'm very unhappy if I'm honest he's very controlling pays me utter crap and less than minimum wage and is just a nightmare all because I don't get on with his recent new wife (within the last few yrs, worked with him 17yrs) he promises payrises and other stuff then never delivers! (Eg got rid of 2 staff and told me if I did the extra work I'd get a significant payrise circa an extra £350 a month after tax but never got it and that was 3yr ago)
So he keeps telling me he wants me out the business and we have come to the end of the line because I won't bow to his demands over getting on with his wife who makes my life hell!
So I told him I'm looking to setup on my own in 12 month time when I can afford to
In truth I want to set up and keep my job whilst building the business over time (I think it will take 2yrs)
Now he's come to me as he's heard my plans and has stated if he catches me supplying whilst working for him he will sack me under conflict of interest BUT I'm not sure he can do that as I won't be in direct competition as I don't want to supply the same area as him or even offer my business where he operates could he sack me based on this???
OR do I put the licensing in my wife's name and get round it that way and act as an "advisor" until such times the business is self sufficient and can afford to pay a wage???
Yes my dad rly is that cold with me he always has been according to my mum he's never had time for me since been a kid, one of the reasons she divorced him
Atm I work for my father in the amusement machine supply sector and I'm very unhappy if I'm honest he's very controlling pays me utter crap and less than minimum wage and is just a nightmare all because I don't get on with his recent new wife (within the last few yrs, worked with him 17yrs) he promises payrises and other stuff then never delivers! (Eg got rid of 2 staff and told me if I did the extra work I'd get a significant payrise circa an extra £350 a month after tax but never got it and that was 3yr ago)
So he keeps telling me he wants me out the business and we have come to the end of the line because I won't bow to his demands over getting on with his wife who makes my life hell!
So I told him I'm looking to setup on my own in 12 month time when I can afford to
In truth I want to set up and keep my job whilst building the business over time (I think it will take 2yrs)
Now he's come to me as he's heard my plans and has stated if he catches me supplying whilst working for him he will sack me under conflict of interest BUT I'm not sure he can do that as I won't be in direct competition as I don't want to supply the same area as him or even offer my business where he operates could he sack me based on this???
OR do I put the licensing in my wife's name and get round it that way and act as an "advisor" until such times the business is self sufficient and can afford to pay a wage???
Yes my dad rly is that cold with me he always has been according to my mum he's never had time for me since been a kid, one of the reasons she divorced him
IANAL but the first thing that springs to mind is:
https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage/employers...
https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage/employers...
Sounds like the gloves are well and truly off.
As above if he isn't paying you minimum wage you can drag him over the coals. Equally has he signed you up for auto enrolment pension and do you get the minimum paid holidays?
I'd say to him if he wants you to be by the book he has to do the same. If you do the right thing and he doesn't you can then go to tribunal and hopefully get a pay out which will let you progress with your plans.
As above if he isn't paying you minimum wage you can drag him over the coals. Equally has he signed you up for auto enrolment pension and do you get the minimum paid holidays?
I'd say to him if he wants you to be by the book he has to do the same. If you do the right thing and he doesn't you can then go to tribunal and hopefully get a pay out which will let you progress with your plans.
The gloves are well and truly off between us, i am on a auto enrolment pension and I get 28days holiday I've never argued the minimum wage thing because it's my dad and I get just enough to cover my stuff and when my wife gave up work she could claim benefit so he sees it that he's doing us a favour and I should appreciate it, because if I earned more she wouldn't be able to claim anything,
This all boils down to the sheer fact I don't get on with his wife and he doesn't like it, and the business I was supposed to inherit eventually he told me if I wanted it I would have to re mortgage my house and buy him out which I'm not prepared to do,
Thing is this wife of his has pissed off his suppliers and other ppl that work with us to the point no one wants to deal with him,
But I feel tight as it's my dad and I do enjoy working with him but when he's around her he's a dick
This all boils down to the sheer fact I don't get on with his wife and he doesn't like it, and the business I was supposed to inherit eventually he told me if I wanted it I would have to re mortgage my house and buy him out which I'm not prepared to do,
Thing is this wife of his has pissed off his suppliers and other ppl that work with us to the point no one wants to deal with him,
But I feel tight as it's my dad and I do enjoy working with him but when he's around her he's a dick
Craikeybaby said:
What does your employment contract say about conflict of interest?
I will have a look see this is another thing I work for the company but 2yrs ago he setup a limited company and put the staff on that with a contract of employment and tried to make us sign and I refused and I still state I don't work for that limited company (it was setup as a ghost company to be able to get rid of staff if needed I think as it has no money going in or going out) so I think a solicitor would tear that apart anywayThe answer is probably.
I think it would be difficult for you to be establishing a new business, whilst working full time for him. Without falling foul of a conflict of interest. If you have a formal contract of employment (which I doubt) then the section on restrictive clauses is the part to review.
In the absence of a clear contract, you father probably can't simply sack you for "a conflict of interests" as there is nothing in your contract to prevent you working on you own business.
Is it possible you could combine your interests and his, eg he provides the capital for you to start your own area, you get the autonomy and together you have an expanded business ?
Whilst things between you sound very difficult, perhaps now is the time to stand up for yourself.
ghost83 said:
I will have a look see this is another thing I work for the company but 2yrs ago he setup a limited company and put the staff on that with a contract of employment and tried to make us sign and I refused and I still state I don't work for that limited company (it was setup as a ghost company to be able to get rid of staff if needed I think as it has no money going in or going out) so I think a solicitor would tear that apart anyway
Invest a few hundred quid in some advice from a solicitor specialising in employment law. Don't whinge about the expense - if you are looking at setting up on your own, regard it as an investment, because if you want to set up on your own but do so whilst still working for your current employer, you will easily trip up and end up in a world of pain. Being on the receiving end of an injunction and an order for costs a few months down the line will make a few hundred quid now look like peanuts.Even if your contract doesn't spell it out, you owe an implied duty of good faith to your current employer. Setting up your own business whilst still wanting to be paid by your current employer doesn't, at first blush, sit well with that duty.
You've got a contract of employment (which you have refused to sign).
You get 28 days holiday
You are enrolled into a pension
Sounds like your dad isnt silly, and has covered himself pretty well.
What are your stated hours of work (on the contract you didnt sign). Are you choosing to work longer hours because its a family business? In other words, if you worked the set hours, would it still be below the minimum wage?
You get 28 days holiday
You are enrolled into a pension
Sounds like your dad isnt silly, and has covered himself pretty well.
What are your stated hours of work (on the contract you didnt sign). Are you choosing to work longer hours because its a family business? In other words, if you worked the set hours, would it still be below the minimum wage?
justinio said:
You've got a contract of employment (which you have refused to sign).
You get 28 days holiday
You are enrolled into a pension
Sounds like your dad isnt silly, and has covered himself pretty well.
What are your stated hours of work (on the contract you didnt sign). Are you choosing to work longer hours because its a family business? In other words, if you worked the set hours, would it still be below the minimum wage?
I'm contracted 11am till 9pm with a break so paid for 8hrs 11 days on 3 offYou get 28 days holiday
You are enrolled into a pension
Sounds like your dad isnt silly, and has covered himself pretty well.
What are your stated hours of work (on the contract you didnt sign). Are you choosing to work longer hours because its a family business? In other words, if you worked the set hours, would it still be below the minimum wage?
In reality you usually work 9hrs get no breaks as we are on the road and there's so much work on you don't have time as the jobs can't be carried over but anything over 8hrs they class as voluntary according to the contract
ghost83 said:
I'm contracted 11am till 9pm with a break so paid for 8hrs 11 days on 3 off
In reality you usually work 9hrs get no breaks as we are on the road and there's so much work on you don't have time as the jobs can't be carried over but anything over 8hrs they class as voluntary according to the contract
Ok I am going to speculate a little - please feel free to correct me. In reality you usually work 9hrs get no breaks as we are on the road and there's so much work on you don't have time as the jobs can't be carried over but anything over 8hrs they class as voluntary according to the contract
You are risk averse, patient , put up with things probably in increments, like a slowly boiled frog. You don't like change and you don't like not having a routine.
Your Dad is more entrepreneurial, commercial and a risk taker, he also has a controlling personality used to getting his own way.
I would look very seriously about whether you can buy the business as a going concern. It might be a faster way to have the business and standard of living you want. Maybe you could buy him out in two or three stages, and use him as a consultant ?
If not, and you just want away from them both, then you need to think long and hard about whether you have the personal stones to make it happen
Very very few entrepreneurs waited 12 months before getting on with it. Make the big call, leave now - if you are determined enough.
Three issues;
1. Do you continue working there, whatever yoi do in competition? Doesn't sound like you should. Sounds like you need to stand on your own two feet.
2. Do you have a contract? Yes, you do. You have an implied contract confirmed by the fact you've been working together (your conduct). Depending on the circumstances, particularly if you've been working to the terms of the unsigned written contract, it may be implied you've accepted that, too. A lack of wet signature wouldn't always be fatal to a contract.
3. Can you be fired for setting up a similar business on your own? Under either contract there are fundamental requirements of trust and confidentiality which, if breached, potentially open you up to disciplinary/gross misconduct.
You need to decide what you would like to do first, then you know what you have to find out about what you can do.
1. Do you continue working there, whatever yoi do in competition? Doesn't sound like you should. Sounds like you need to stand on your own two feet.
2. Do you have a contract? Yes, you do. You have an implied contract confirmed by the fact you've been working together (your conduct). Depending on the circumstances, particularly if you've been working to the terms of the unsigned written contract, it may be implied you've accepted that, too. A lack of wet signature wouldn't always be fatal to a contract.
3. Can you be fired for setting up a similar business on your own? Under either contract there are fundamental requirements of trust and confidentiality which, if breached, potentially open you up to disciplinary/gross misconduct.
You need to decide what you would like to do first, then you know what you have to find out about what you can do.
I saw similar with a mate who worked with his Dad at a removals business, one day all this will be yours type, he worked like a dog for crap money for decades, then the old man decided he wanted to retire, so sacked his son and handed control to his new step son.
If the gloves are off, and your not inheriting without buying out, and considering the complications of the new wife and the way you have been treated, I think i would be looking to set up and start poaching customers asap and let your dad find another lackey.
If the gloves are off, and your not inheriting without buying out, and considering the complications of the new wife and the way you have been treated, I think i would be looking to set up and start poaching customers asap and let your dad find another lackey.
Taking active steps to compete with a business whilst still employed by it would be a breach of the implied terms of the employment contract, even absent any relevant express terms. If your father really is down on you as you say, you could find yourself subject to an injunction and a five figure legal bill.
PGNSagaris said:
Now back giving it the beans on the Macan thread.
Fantasist.
Total fantasist, his posts make good reading if your bored though. He contradicts himself in everyone.Fantasist.
Seemingly since he hit 30 he has been focused buying into the family business (20th January) but yet here he is moaning about his father, stepmother and only on minimum wage.
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