Using copyrighted material
Discussion
Sort of leading on from the one about the car dealer, I'm on the other side of the fence.
I am involved with a business for which I'm responsible for the new website. A key theme of the site, and how we do business is how different we are to the key industry players. So much so that I'll have a section identifying industry norms and picking them apart one by one.
As part of this I would prefer to have actual real examples, lifted directly from competitors websites. I'm aware that this breaches their copyright, but the genuine nature adds much more credibility than any lookalike our designer could cobble up. Ultimately (at least in my head!) I'd like to be served a takedown, which we would comply with, then in turn we'd publish the takedown notice instead, as further evidence of our claims they want suppressed.
Understandably I'm getting some friction from partners, does anyone know what the options are in these cases? Does it always start with a C&D letter or could it be something worse? Realistically how much pain could a (pretty big) business cause us if we 'borrow' their material?
I am involved with a business for which I'm responsible for the new website. A key theme of the site, and how we do business is how different we are to the key industry players. So much so that I'll have a section identifying industry norms and picking them apart one by one.
As part of this I would prefer to have actual real examples, lifted directly from competitors websites. I'm aware that this breaches their copyright, but the genuine nature adds much more credibility than any lookalike our designer could cobble up. Ultimately (at least in my head!) I'd like to be served a takedown, which we would comply with, then in turn we'd publish the takedown notice instead, as further evidence of our claims they want suppressed.
Understandably I'm getting some friction from partners, does anyone know what the options are in these cases? Does it always start with a C&D letter or could it be something worse? Realistically how much pain could a (pretty big) business cause us if we 'borrow' their material?
technodup said:
Sort of leading on from the one about the car dealer, I'm on the other side of the fence.
I am involved with a business for which I'm responsible for the new website. A key theme of the site, and how we do business is how different we are to the key industry players. So much so that I'll have a section identifying industry norms and picking them apart one by one.
As part of this I would prefer to have actual real examples, lifted directly from competitors websites. I'm aware that this breaches their copyright, but the genuine nature adds much more credibility than any lookalike our designer could cobble up. Ultimately (at least in my head!) I'd like to be served a takedown, which we would comply with, then in turn we'd publish the takedown notice instead, as further evidence of our claims they want suppressed.
Understandably I'm getting some friction from partners, does anyone know what the options are in these cases? Does it always start with a C&D letter or could it be something worse? Realistically how much pain could a (pretty big) business cause us if we 'borrow' their material?
This is a really awful idea all round. Actually horrible.I am involved with a business for which I'm responsible for the new website. A key theme of the site, and how we do business is how different we are to the key industry players. So much so that I'll have a section identifying industry norms and picking them apart one by one.
As part of this I would prefer to have actual real examples, lifted directly from competitors websites. I'm aware that this breaches their copyright, but the genuine nature adds much more credibility than any lookalike our designer could cobble up. Ultimately (at least in my head!) I'd like to be served a takedown, which we would comply with, then in turn we'd publish the takedown notice instead, as further evidence of our claims they want suppressed.
Understandably I'm getting some friction from partners, does anyone know what the options are in these cases? Does it always start with a C&D letter or could it be something worse? Realistically how much pain could a (pretty big) business cause us if we 'borrow' their material?
It's not cool, either.
technodup said:
I'd like to be served a takedown, which we would comply with, then in turn we'd publish the takedown notice instead, as further evidence of our claims they want suppressed.
The only evidence that would provide is that you infringed their copyright. Because you were a t
t. It's really not a very impressive way to operate, and I know where I wouldn't be taking my business.iphonedyou said:
This is a really awful idea all round. Actually horrible.
It's not cool, either.
Out of interest, why?It's not cool, either.
The major players are quite blatantly ripping people off left right and centre. I'm drawing attention to it. Is it only the copyright aspect you find objectionable? I am very hesitant to water down the message but could be persuaded.
I ask because the same angle has generated significant orders this year. Praise too, from customers and other interested parties. As for not cool, I get it, it's why I asked the question. The question I'm asking myself is how far to push and where to draw the line between being disruptive and self harming.
If you wish to take an attack dog approach then do it (expect zero favours in your market) but don't start using other peoples material or using their links.
I would never trust, instinctively, the person who does the above but it is up to you. Many people do work that way I will accept.
I would never trust, instinctively, the person who does the above but it is up to you. Many people do work that way I will accept.
I thought you were able to use parts of a copyrighted piece of material for the purpose of critique without it being infringement.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/exceptions-to-copyrigh...
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/exceptions-to-copyrigh...
It's permissible to use a competitor's products or services in marketing material by way of example over yours. Many companies do this; normally via a comparison table of similar..."Product A has these features, Product B has these...But there are ours!"
But you need to be careful. You can't slag another company or its products off and there's the maxim that you should never criticise the opposition as one day, you may be working for them or owned by them.
But you need to be careful. You can't slag another company or its products off and there's the maxim that you should never criticise the opposition as one day, you may be working for them or owned by them.
technodup said:
Out of interest, why?
The major players are quite blatantly ripping people off left right and centre. I'm drawing attention to it. Is it only the copyright aspect you find objectionable? I am very hesitant to water down the message but could be persuaded.
The copyright aspect is clearly objectionable - so objectionable it has specific protections in law, to preclude you from doing what you plan to do. You're not drawing attention to it, though, because nobody will see what you've plagiarised and think 'ah! The major players are quite blatantly ripping people off left, right and centre!' They'll think, rightly, that you're focusing on perceived competitor downsides rather than your own strengths, and breaking the law whilst doing it. That's straight from the bully's rulebook and I'd wager most people find it a bit sThe major players are quite blatantly ripping people off left right and centre. I'm drawing attention to it. Is it only the copyright aspect you find objectionable? I am very hesitant to water down the message but could be persuaded.
t.Posting the cease and desist is quite odd. It's evidence of nothing other than you've accepted you've broken the law and have taken steps to redress that - it doesn't mean the competitor accepts any allegations, implications or statements made by you. The average reader will know this.
Honestly; take a step back and genuinely reassess from a completely fresh perspective if possible. It's not cricket.
jammy-git said:
I thought you were able to use parts of a copyrighted piece of material for the purpose of critique without it being infringement.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/exceptions-to-copyrigh...
I would be extremely wary of trying to rely on criticism and review as a defence.https://www.gov.uk/guidance/exceptions-to-copyrigh...
StevieBee said:
It's permissible to use a competitor's products or services in marketing material by way of example over yours. Many companies do this; normally via a comparison table of similar..."Product A has these features, Product B has these...But there are ours!"
That was sort of what I was aiming at. I remember Virgin going explicitly at BA when they started their transatlantic flights. Likewise Sinclair and Commodore before that. Although I had blacked out names to avoid being too explicit, it's the industry rather than any particular company I'm getting at.StevieBee said:
But you need to be careful. You can't slag another company or its products off and there's the maxim that you should never criticise the opposition as one day, you may be working for them or owned by them.
That's the interesting bit (to me). It's entirely possible if we do very well and sell up, that one of the players in question would be the buyer. The attraction to them would be they would have both angles covered.I think on reflection the messaging stays the same, as it's very attractive to customers. But I will have our guy recreate mock-ups of the bits in question which will do the same job without attracting too much attention.
Basically you sound like you want to be in a fight with the competitors.
I work in a different market of the car industry. Its a small world. We try never to burn bridges where possible as sometimes you will need help from a rival and vice versa yet most days we are indirectly competing for the same customers.
I think its ok to critique basic industry practises and trumpet about the reasons you are better but focus on you and the positives you bring to the industry. People will be turned off by an attack on the competitors themselves.
If you have to rely on kicking mud in the face of your competitors then you need to rethink your business model as a whole....
I work in a different market of the car industry. Its a small world. We try never to burn bridges where possible as sometimes you will need help from a rival and vice versa yet most days we are indirectly competing for the same customers.
I think its ok to critique basic industry practises and trumpet about the reasons you are better but focus on you and the positives you bring to the industry. People will be turned off by an attack on the competitors themselves.
If you have to rely on kicking mud in the face of your competitors then you need to rethink your business model as a whole....
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
I'm not interested in their content, because in every case I've seen it's utter ste. Big boys all tell exactly the same story and use exactly the same hackneyed tactics, wee guys don't have the time/money/interest to do it right.I've written all our content, I was intending using screenshots to demonstrate the differences but have opted to go for mock ups instead. Any customer will know exactly what I'm getting at, and see it for what it is, which is the whole point.
To the OP, not sure how old you are and how much experience you have in business, but the phrase "live by the sword, die by the sword" comes to mind.
From a customer's perspective, when a potential supplier slags off a competitor, it is never good to hear. Far better to concentrate on describing your product or service and how it can solve your customer's problem. Your customer's will be more than capable I suspect of deciding if it works best for them.
If one of my competitors tried to disrupt my business using your proposed tactics I'd start with a cease and desist notice and work up from there quite quickly.
Breadvan72 said:
In addition to the risk of civil and criminal liability for breach of copyright, you would expose the company to sanctions by the Advertising Standards Authority. Your plan is illegal and stupid and a good way to get fired.
Making it doubly terrible an idea as he seems to be planning on never leaving the company/working for another company in the industry. 
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