Commercial Property Sub Let. Advice Please

[Burwood]

Anyone on the boards who is a bit of an expert.

I sub let a property(Warehouse). The tenant on the lease is a family member but I use it and I pay 100% of the rent and costs directly to the Landlord. I was abroad when I needed the property so he just signed it up(family member). Technically I must be a Sub letting tenant? There is no agreement between me and the LL or the family member lessee other than emails saying 'ok get me this property' and i'll pay. They agreed to sign the docs in their name. I will add. The LL is fully aware I pay/occupy and am not the formal lessee.

An issue has arisen where I found out said family member has been using the storage facility, 50% for his own benefit and in fact damaged a lot of my property in the process. I decided to give notice to the Landlord and cc'd in the lessee. Lessee then entered the warehouse and changed the locks!

Lessee overode my notice this and landlord has said they must take lessees instruction.Surely in common law i have rights? Cheers

[Chrisgr31]

What rights do you want?

[Burwood]

Chrisgr31 said:

What rights do you want?

How about not having him just enter the premises because his name is on the lease or change the locks. I didn’t ask for a ph opinion. I’m after comment from someone that knows. Thanks

[Muncher]

I’m not sure what the issue is, you wanted to terminate the arrangement? The locks have now been changed and you’re not paying any rent now? Have you got your kit back?

[Chrisgr31]

Burwood said:

How about not having him just enter the premises because his name is on the lease or change the locks. I didn’t ask for a ph opinion. I’m after comment from someone that knows. Thanks

It happens to be a field I know something about, as I am a surveyor, but your post was confusing, and i didnt know what you want.

Still dont really as why should you care if you dont want the property?

[Burwood]

Chrisgr31 said:

Burwood said:

How about not having him just enter the premises because his name is on the lease or change the locks. I didn’t ask for a ph opinion. I’m after comment from someone that knows. Thanks

It happens to be a field I know something about, as I am a surveyor, but your post was confusing, and i didnt know what you want.

Still dont really as why should you care if you dont want the property?

My property is still inside.

[Burwood]

Because I got angry at this family member for taking the pee, he thinks because his name is on the lease, he went round and took control of the building including my stuff.

Landlord is saying, sorry his name is on the lease. I say, LL knows I pay the rent and it’s a sub let to me.

[KrazyIvan]

You will need to prove that both the landlord and the tenant were aware you were in the building and paying rent.

But as stated, not really sure what you are after. As you wanted out of the building. Contact both explaing you want access to the property to remove your assets. If they refuse, then you can involve a solicitor or possibly the police.

[anonymous-user]

Your issue is with your relative and getting your property back. The thread title is a red herring. It is nothing to do with the landlord. You can’t give notice to the landlord on a property on which you have no lease. The fact you have been paying the rent makes no difference. The landlord should just ignore you. Speak to your relative and get legal advice if they won’t let you collect your property.

[surveyor]

There maybe an argument that your Landlord has by accepting rent direct from you has accepted an informal assignment of the lease. There is a legal name for it, and at this moment it escapes me.

It would be helpful if he sends you invoices in your name etc.

Otherwise is he stopping you getting your stuff?

[Burwood]

surveyor said:

There maybe an argument that your Landlord has by accepting rent direct from you has accepted an informal assignment of the lease. There is a legal name for it, and at this moment it escapes me.

It would be helpful if he sends you invoices in your name etc.

Otherwise is he stopping you getting your stuff?

Thanks for your comments. No invoices issued. I just pay the rent monthly, direct to LL. And yes the person who’s name the lease is in has moved in and taken control. I think their actions are improper as they have no interest in the property, don’t pay and simply signed the papers on my behalf.

[Burwood]

A bit of reading says he has either assigned the lease to me or Sub Let the property. Either way I an afforded the same rights as any tenant under common law(at least) which means he can not just enter when he feels like it.

[PurpleMoonlight]

You don't want it, why are you so bothered?

[Burwood]

PurpleMoonlight said:

You don't want it, why are you so bothered?

because my property is still inside

[Chrisgr31]

In whose name is the lease? Is it in the name of the relative? Or is it in your name and they effectively forged your signature?

Reality is the Landlord should not have accepted rent from someone who was not the named tenant. It is something that managing agents are very wary as before you know where you are you find the person paying the rent is the tenant and you know nothing about them.

It would have been better for you to have taken action to confirm that you are the tenant rather than try and cancel the lease. That way your could have evicted your relative.

[Muncher]

Have you asked for your property back, from either party? What has the response been? What is the property inside worth?

[Burwood]

Muncher said:

Have you asked for your property back, from either party? What has the response been? What is the property inside worth?

Landlord says, so far. Not my problem. My brother, yes him. Says fk u c...

[anonymous-user]

Burwood said:

Muncher said:

Have you asked for your property back, from either party? What has the response been? What is the property inside worth?

Landlord says, so far. Not my problem. My brother, yes him. Says fk u c...

That's painful. Take 5 steps away and leave it for 3 months would be my suggestion.

[Muncher]

It’s likely your occupation is by way of an under lease, but whichever the basis of your occupation your brother cannot just keep your property or hold it to ransome. Let me know if you want some proper advice on this as one of my colleagues could assist.

[Burwood]

Muncher said:

It’s likely your occupation is by way of an under lease, but whichever the basis of your occupation your brother cannot just keep your property or hold it to ransome. Let me know if you want some proper advice on this as one of my colleagues could assist.

Thanks Muncher. It’s complicated with it being a family member. A hyper aggressive and abusive one at that. Law unto himself. I’ve written to him pointing out the obvious wrong doings and will leave it there for now.

In short, he occupies at least 50% of the space (illegally) and loves the free warehouse. He is used to it and so in his mind he thinks he has the upper hand. I’m a very long distance away, hence the hassle. Come up and deal with it he says. Want my stuff back I must pay the rent a bit longer. Don’t pay and he starts mounting a bill for rent which he will defray via selling my stuff. All illegal of course but he has always been a thug. As subtle as a sledgehammer. Deals with conflict or any disagreement by brute force, aggression and abuse.

It’s my fault for trusting him.

Edited by Burwood on Sunday 4th February 17:09