How to get a business startupper to see it's not working?
Discussion
A friend has been starting up his business for about four years now, aiming to provide health and physical advice to employees of medium-to-large companies, and an app along similar lines (health and activity tracking, I guess). As far as i can tell there's been little response from such companies, i.e. no revenue has come in via this route in four years, and the app has still to be launched. However, plenty of encouragement and support from people who already work in the health-type sector, which keeps him going in search of success, even though they're not the ones who will ever be paying him for his time.
So no revenue, no outside income, but a constant positive belief that it will pay off in the future.
I'm not part of the business or privy to all of the details, but how can I get him to see the reality of the situation? Thought about paying for a session with a proper business adviser to take the economics of it to bits, but I don't know if he'd go, or even if such people exist. He's had advice from public sector enterprise folk, but that seems to be more about how to run a business, marketing, website etc, rather than evaluating the actual business model. He's previously worked in an entirely different sector as a skilled freelance/permie, never run a business before.
So no revenue, no outside income, but a constant positive belief that it will pay off in the future.
I'm not part of the business or privy to all of the details, but how can I get him to see the reality of the situation? Thought about paying for a session with a proper business adviser to take the economics of it to bits, but I don't know if he'd go, or even if such people exist. He's had advice from public sector enterprise folk, but that seems to be more about how to run a business, marketing, website etc, rather than evaluating the actual business model. He's previously worked in an entirely different sector as a skilled freelance/permie, never run a business before.
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 4th February 13:52
People will always be polite - I'm sure this simple fact is the actual root cause of most failed businesses.
Paying customers are the only validation of a viable business.
Unfortunately there are stories bandied around of those who struggled to get a business off the ground for years before finally getting their big break JUST before they were about to give up. People then hear about this and use it as a reason why they shouldn't give up, not realising these stories are unicorns, equivalent of a lottery jackpot winner in the business world.
A lot of people also falsely believe they don't have a failed business until they actually give up.
Paying customers are the only validation of a viable business.
Unfortunately there are stories bandied around of those who struggled to get a business off the ground for years before finally getting their big break JUST before they were about to give up. People then hear about this and use it as a reason why they shouldn't give up, not realising these stories are unicorns, equivalent of a lottery jackpot winner in the business world.
A lot of people also falsely believe they don't have a failed business until they actually give up.
A start-up can take years for some businesses, but even those would have a structured set of goals and can measure progress against those goals - in parallel there would normally be market validation during that process, it sounds as though all of this is missing...
the problem is that some people are so intrinsically a part of their business that success / failure is directly tied to self-worth, it can be very difficult to persuade such people that it is not working as they take it as direct crticism of them / saying that they are a failure...
usually the best approach is a honest discussion from someone they respect, but sometimes no-one can persuade them...
the problem is that some people are so intrinsically a part of their business that success / failure is directly tied to self-worth, it can be very difficult to persuade such people that it is not working as they take it as direct crticism of them / saying that they are a failure...
usually the best approach is a honest discussion from someone they respect, but sometimes no-one can persuade them...
Reminds me of an episode of Dragon's Den where a pitcher was hell bent on taking out a second mortgage on his house, despite having his idea torn to pieces by the dragons. Some people become so emotionally invested in their ideas they can't see the woods for the trees.
Perhaps you could try and create a challenge for your friend. If he hasn't signed up x amount of customers and / or generated x amount of revenue in six months, he should throw the towel in?
Perhaps you could try and create a challenge for your friend. If he hasn't signed up x amount of customers and / or generated x amount of revenue in six months, he should throw the towel in?
I guess he'll run out of money at some point and won't have a choice but to go back to work?
Maybe some sort of online business course might help?
Also, its often embarrassing to have to admit to others you were wrong with your idea after all this time. How can he get out of it without losing face? Think about it, he tried it for 4 years, not 4 months.
And I agree with the stories of if you keep on keeping on it’ll eventually succeed.
Could you offer to help him/work him?
Maybe some sort of online business course might help?
Also, its often embarrassing to have to admit to others you were wrong with your idea after all this time. How can he get out of it without losing face? Think about it, he tried it for 4 years, not 4 months.
And I agree with the stories of if you keep on keeping on it’ll eventually succeed.
Could you offer to help him/work him?
Edited by Frimley111R on Monday 5th February 12:47
Sounds like a corporate personal trainer, but obvs rehashed under an app.
If a company or government wants to support that kind of nonsense, they will either do it in-house or outsource to a big brand (like Pru).
Just give him some numbers written down on a sheet of paper.
There are ~8m businesses and government departments in the UK... and only 0.1% will be willing to pay for such a service... and you have been trying for 4 years and currently have, err, zero...
Ahm oot.
If a company or government wants to support that kind of nonsense, they will either do it in-house or outsource to a big brand (like Pru).
Just give him some numbers written down on a sheet of paper.
There are ~8m businesses and government departments in the UK... and only 0.1% will be willing to pay for such a service... and you have been trying for 4 years and currently have, err, zero...
Ahm oot.
jammy-git said:
There's usually at least one person per episode that goes on Dragon's Den, gets ripped to shreds and then comments afterwards that all the dragons were wrong and that one day they'll be in one of the dragons chairs showing them how wrong they were!
and just occasionally they are right - enough to give fuel to those who want to use it as a justification to not worry about proper business plans - sadly that is probably one in a million...akirk said:
and just occasionally they are right - enough to give fuel to those who want to use it as a justification to not worry about proper business plans - sadly that is probably one in a million...
I always like the way that David Jones loses his rag at people who come on Dragons Den and value their company at £X million when they are doing £20k of annual sales.
Continually flogging a dead horse is pointless,
Frimley111R said:
akirk said:
prand said:
I always like the way that David Jones loses his rag at people who come on Dragons Den and value their company at £X million when they are doing £20k of annual sales.
Continually flogging a dead horse is pointless,
He hasn’t ever had a sale? Never made a bean? And he thinks he has a business? It’s like me saying I’m a professional footballer I’ve never had a contract or made a penny out of football no infact I’ve made a few quid betting on football so I’m closer to earning a living through football than your mate is with this idea I’d say business but he doesn’t have one.
People seem to do these things for a variety of reasons. I deal with quite a few smaller businesses and for a few of them I wonder why or even how they can carry on. Often it’s just a lifestyle choice rather than trying to be the next founder of Megacorp Inc. Typically it’s usually funded by a partner on a very good salary!
Presumably money isn’t an issue in this case so it sounds like a pet project. However if bills are going unpaid and family start to suffer then it’s time to step back.
Presumably money isn’t an issue in this case so it sounds like a pet project. However if bills are going unpaid and family start to suffer then it’s time to step back.
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