Too much work, need an employee,whats the best way foreward?
Discussion
Basically I'm a electrician been in business for around 3 years now.
Last year was nice and steady and growing well.
However this year, its like someone has just pressed a "stress me out" button, as i have just got too much work to handle on my own.
I hate turning down work or letting a customer down, however the latter is starting to happen as i just can't manage it all on my own.
Ive been working 12 hour days 6 days a week just trying to keep up and keep customers happy, and its starting to take its toll on me....
Everyone keeps telling me i need to employ someone to help out, but i just don't know who or how.
Im not sure I'm ready for another qualified spark, I've done the sums and think i would need to almost double my hourly fee to make an expensive spark pay off with a decent return. (currently charge £30/Hour which after employee + costs would not leave any left over)
Then i guess i could employ just a labourer to do the dirty work, but not sure i like the idea of working with someone with little electrical knowledge and possibly being a pain in the arse to manage.
Then i think someone just out of or in college who knows the basics and just needs the experience, would work nicely.
Be fairly cheap and hopefully know the basics. But then probably not going to be around long once they have their experience or wanting full spark pay.
But my biggest worry is, what if i employ someone, then work goes quiet for a period. (like around christmas)
What i really want is someone on a zero hour contract, but i can't see anyone who is any good entertaining such arrangement.
Where would i find such a person, could i approach a college etc to see if any students interested?
I know there are a fair few trades etc on here, so just wondering what your experience is regarding finding employing someone for the first time?
Cheers
Last year was nice and steady and growing well.
However this year, its like someone has just pressed a "stress me out" button, as i have just got too much work to handle on my own.
I hate turning down work or letting a customer down, however the latter is starting to happen as i just can't manage it all on my own.
Ive been working 12 hour days 6 days a week just trying to keep up and keep customers happy, and its starting to take its toll on me....
Everyone keeps telling me i need to employ someone to help out, but i just don't know who or how.
Im not sure I'm ready for another qualified spark, I've done the sums and think i would need to almost double my hourly fee to make an expensive spark pay off with a decent return. (currently charge £30/Hour which after employee + costs would not leave any left over)
Then i guess i could employ just a labourer to do the dirty work, but not sure i like the idea of working with someone with little electrical knowledge and possibly being a pain in the arse to manage.
Then i think someone just out of or in college who knows the basics and just needs the experience, would work nicely.
Be fairly cheap and hopefully know the basics. But then probably not going to be around long once they have their experience or wanting full spark pay.
But my biggest worry is, what if i employ someone, then work goes quiet for a period. (like around christmas)
What i really want is someone on a zero hour contract, but i can't see anyone who is any good entertaining such arrangement.
Where would i find such a person, could i approach a college etc to see if any students interested?
I know there are a fair few trades etc on here, so just wondering what your experience is regarding finding employing someone for the first time?
Cheers
When I had someone sort some rendering out, because it was a big job, I just got two invoices, one from the guy who I had do the work and another from his second guy (50:50 split, basically). I was happy to pay for the service that way.
I suppose he could have just had his helper invoice him and paid him that way?
I suppose he could have just had his helper invoice him and paid him that way?
Lol welcome to the layer cake. Like the majority of small traders I guess you're here just doing what you do than any drive to "succeed" as such and its an odd place with a lot of odd issues.
Juggling time and saying sorry no can do is tough, and always will be, cos every small trader remembers the lean times. Are you going to go to the next level and employ some bozo with all the Hassle and money that brings or muddle along never doing more than allright and never make your million? There is no right answer.
Juggling time and saying sorry no can do is tough, and always will be, cos every small trader remembers the lean times. Are you going to go to the next level and employ some bozo with all the Hassle and money that brings or muddle along never doing more than allright and never make your million? There is no right answer.
loafer123 said:
charge more until the workflow reduces.
This is your answer.If you'd have to double the hourly rate to make an employee worthwhile you would probably find this would drop the workload to the point where there isn't enough for one of you, never mind two!
Go from £30 to £40 per hour, you'll lose the cheapest 10% of your customers by doing it so won't be as over worked and you'll still be earning more than you do now.
If you want to have staff and grow the business that's fine but you will probably need to build it to your 4th/5th/6th staff member before it becomes less hassle or much more pay than working solo.
Maybe not going to be the popular solution but if your reputation is so good that your busy 24/7, why not up your rates slightly? you will get less work but because you have too much you won't notice anyway, plus you will be earning more profit.
Once you get back to the too much work point you now have the right rates to hire another person and still make a profit.
The way I see it, price based on demand for yourself. Have rates high enough that you are extracting as much profit as possible, but low enough that you get enough work to keep you going and are not ripping people off whilst also valuing your worth. Of course for long term clients that you think would run should you raise the rates you could keep on a "loyal customer" rate.
Once you get back to the too much work point you now have the right rates to hire another person and still make a profit.
The way I see it, price based on demand for yourself. Have rates high enough that you are extracting as much profit as possible, but low enough that you get enough work to keep you going and are not ripping people off whilst also valuing your worth. Of course for long term clients that you think would run should you raise the rates you could keep on a "loyal customer" rate.
Great thread. I've been there but not solved this issue before. The challenge I always saw was having to keep someone busy 24/7. As the OP says, when it gets quiet what do you do with the guy? Pay him to stay at home?
How about finding contractors/partners and then quote jobs as your rates plus their rates and a margin on top?
How about finding contractors/partners and then quote jobs as your rates plus their rates and a margin on top?
Steve H said:
loafer123 said:
charge more until the workflow reduces.
This is your answer.If you'd have to double the hourly rate to make an employee worthwhile you would probably find this would drop the workload to the point where there isn't enough for one of you, never mind two!
Go from £30 to £40 per hour, you'll lose the cheapest 10% of your customers by doing it so won't be as over worked and you'll still be earning more than you do now.
If you want to have staff and grow the business that's fine but you will probably need to build it to your 4th/5th/6th staff member before it becomes less hassle or much more pay than working solo.
Although it has been busy in the game, you know its booming when agys you havent worked for in 20years are texting you jobs out the blue. Blame brexit lol. Can also charge a bit more for the first hour though to get a bit of travel time back from the little jobs.
This is the most difficult part of any trades business I think!
Personally I've ran up to 30 electricians and had sleepless nights when the work dried up, and also when there was more work than people. Couldn't win! I got out of the game when my eCommerce side line took off and haven't looked back.
I don't have all the answers, and I haven't always won, but I think you need to make a very considered decision on whether you want to run 5+ electricians off the tools or if you'd rather stay solo. By that I mean that you'll find it hard to stay profitable with 1 additional electrician, you'll likely want to be running a few and keeping the work coming to stay as profitable as you are now and grow.
For you to be successful your day to day will need to shift from wiring houses/offices to finding houses/offices for your staff to wire.
Otherwise I'd suggest employing an apprentice under the pretence that it's not a quick fix. But it could be good for you long term if you're happy doing what you are doing.
Start with what you want long term and work backwards.
If you want to stay solo then put your prices up and make sure you are profiting from materials. You will lose some customers but you'll make the same money for less hours. Make sure you are marketing to the correct audience though. I did this successfully at a time when we had 15+ on the cards electricians, we were not making money changing light switches so I increased costs and adjusted our branding/website/marketing to look like we didn't do low end residential.
If you want to be big then you need to accept and prepare for the fact that you will make a lot less money whilst growing until the point where you can profit significantly more than as a solo act (with much more risk of losing it all, quickly). But that won't be with just one electrician. You won't succeed if you stay on your tools and you will need to market accordingly.
The main thing I'd say to anyone working in electrical is treat it as any other business and lead with sales. Without sales you have nothing, you won't pay your staff or put fuel in your weekend car. I've been around way too many electrical contractors who don't know how to market & sell and it's not pretty.
Good luck!
Personally I've ran up to 30 electricians and had sleepless nights when the work dried up, and also when there was more work than people. Couldn't win! I got out of the game when my eCommerce side line took off and haven't looked back.
I don't have all the answers, and I haven't always won, but I think you need to make a very considered decision on whether you want to run 5+ electricians off the tools or if you'd rather stay solo. By that I mean that you'll find it hard to stay profitable with 1 additional electrician, you'll likely want to be running a few and keeping the work coming to stay as profitable as you are now and grow.
For you to be successful your day to day will need to shift from wiring houses/offices to finding houses/offices for your staff to wire.
Otherwise I'd suggest employing an apprentice under the pretence that it's not a quick fix. But it could be good for you long term if you're happy doing what you are doing.
Start with what you want long term and work backwards.
If you want to stay solo then put your prices up and make sure you are profiting from materials. You will lose some customers but you'll make the same money for less hours. Make sure you are marketing to the correct audience though. I did this successfully at a time when we had 15+ on the cards electricians, we were not making money changing light switches so I increased costs and adjusted our branding/website/marketing to look like we didn't do low end residential.
If you want to be big then you need to accept and prepare for the fact that you will make a lot less money whilst growing until the point where you can profit significantly more than as a solo act (with much more risk of losing it all, quickly). But that won't be with just one electrician. You won't succeed if you stay on your tools and you will need to market accordingly.
The main thing I'd say to anyone working in electrical is treat it as any other business and lead with sales. Without sales you have nothing, you won't pay your staff or put fuel in your weekend car. I've been around way too many electrical contractors who don't know how to market & sell and it's not pretty.
Good luck!
Please don’t take this the wrong way but it sounds like the typical ‘busy fool’.
I’m an electrician (off the tools now) and have been trading for a little over twenty years in the commercial and domestic market. So I’ve been where you are.
Currently employ several electricians PAYE on the tools plus there is the office side as well so I’ve had a little experience and I am okay with the numbers.
You don’t say what market you’re in but I’d guess from your post it is genuinely self employed as opposed to sub-contracting.
Assuming this is correct then my suggestion is firstly and without hesitation I’d raise my rates.
Secondly, take time out to profile your ideal customer, what do they look like, where would you find them and how do they purchase.
Then target your marketing to that person.
Just imagine, you only work with customers that you like, they appreciate the service you provide and are happy to pay what you ask without quibbling.
No more wasters moaning about your rates and fobbing you off comes time to pay.
Sounds good right?
If you charge twice your current rate and get half the work that you currently do (an overly simplified view I know) then you are already in a much better position than you’re currently in.
If you’re not charging enough to cover the wages of another electrician then I’d say your rates are currently too low and last thing you need to do is add financial hardship into the mix by increasing your costs with insufficient incoming, that would send your stress levels stratospheric.
There are a surprising number of tradesmen who, when factoring in the hours worked, are on less than minimum wage.
The same ones often don’t keep an eye on their figures and only once they get their year end figures from their accountant do they realise they’ve had another disaster year.
I’ve lost count of the number of tradesmen I’ve spoken to who base their pricing on what some other hardup tradesman is charging up the road and moan about not having any money.
You may think you can’t raise your prices but believe me I’ve seen hourly rates range from £20ph right up to above £120 per hour.
The only thing stopping you is your own mindset.
A couple of oldie but goody books for you as a business owner-
Profit first by Mike Michalowicz
E Myth revisited by Michael Gerber
Feel free to drop me a PM if I can be of help.
I’m an electrician (off the tools now) and have been trading for a little over twenty years in the commercial and domestic market. So I’ve been where you are.
Currently employ several electricians PAYE on the tools plus there is the office side as well so I’ve had a little experience and I am okay with the numbers.
You don’t say what market you’re in but I’d guess from your post it is genuinely self employed as opposed to sub-contracting.
Assuming this is correct then my suggestion is firstly and without hesitation I’d raise my rates.
Secondly, take time out to profile your ideal customer, what do they look like, where would you find them and how do they purchase.
Then target your marketing to that person.
Just imagine, you only work with customers that you like, they appreciate the service you provide and are happy to pay what you ask without quibbling.
No more wasters moaning about your rates and fobbing you off comes time to pay.
Sounds good right?
If you charge twice your current rate and get half the work that you currently do (an overly simplified view I know) then you are already in a much better position than you’re currently in.
If you’re not charging enough to cover the wages of another electrician then I’d say your rates are currently too low and last thing you need to do is add financial hardship into the mix by increasing your costs with insufficient incoming, that would send your stress levels stratospheric.
There are a surprising number of tradesmen who, when factoring in the hours worked, are on less than minimum wage.
The same ones often don’t keep an eye on their figures and only once they get their year end figures from their accountant do they realise they’ve had another disaster year.
I’ve lost count of the number of tradesmen I’ve spoken to who base their pricing on what some other hardup tradesman is charging up the road and moan about not having any money.
You may think you can’t raise your prices but believe me I’ve seen hourly rates range from £20ph right up to above £120 per hour.
The only thing stopping you is your own mindset.
A couple of oldie but goody books for you as a business owner-
Profit first by Mike Michalowicz
E Myth revisited by Michael Gerber
Feel free to drop me a PM if I can be of help.
Edited by Nick928 on Monday 12th March 23:37
Nick928 said:
Please don’t take this the wrong way but it sounds like the typical ‘busy fool’.
I’m an electrician (off the tools now) and have been trading for a little over twenty years in the commercial and domestic market. So I’ve been where you are.
Currently employ several electricians PAYE on the tools plus there is the office side as well so I’ve had a little experience and I am okay with the numbers.
You don’t say what market you’re in but I’d guess from your post it is genuinely self employed as opposed to sub-contracting.
Assuming this is correct then my suggestion is firstly and without hesitation I’d raise my rates.
Secondly, take time out to profile your ideal customer, what do they look like, where would you find them and how do they purchase.
Then target your marketing to that person.
Just imagine, you only work with customers that you like, they appreciate the service you provide and are happy to pay what you ask without quibbling.
No more wasters moaning about your rates and fobbing you off comes time to pay.
Sounds good right?
If you charge twice your current rate and get half the work that you currently do (an overly simplified view I know) then you are already in a much better position than you’re currently in.
If you’re not charging enough to cover the wages of another electrician then I’d say your rates are currently too low and last thing you need to do is add financial hardship into the mix by increasing your costs with insufficient incoming, that would send your stress levels stratospheric.
There are a surprising number of tradesmen who, when factoring in the hours worked, are on less than minimum wage.
The same ones often don’t keep an eye on their figures and only once they get their year end figures from their accountant do they realise they’ve had another disaster year.
I’ve lost count of the number of tradesmen I’ve spoken to who base their pricing on what some other hardup tradesman is charging up the road and moan about not having any money.
You may think you can’t raise your prices but believe me I’ve seen hourly rates range from £20ph right up to above £120 per hour.
The only thing stopping you is your own mindset.
A couple of oldie but goody books for you as a business owner-
Profit first by Mike Michalowicz
E Myth revisited by Michael Gerber
Feel free to drop me a PM if I can be of help.
Much sense posted here, First you have to decide if you want to work or be a boss. I decided on the former as I love what I do, the kids have left home and mortgage is paid so quality of life is more important to me than the stress or extra money. Although I am a tiler rather than an electrician the principals are the same. I have increased my metre rate by £5 twice in the last 12 months and the only customers I have lost are the ones who were only interested in the lowest price rather than quality... and I am thinking of raising them again at the end of this financial year. I’m an electrician (off the tools now) and have been trading for a little over twenty years in the commercial and domestic market. So I’ve been where you are.
Currently employ several electricians PAYE on the tools plus there is the office side as well so I’ve had a little experience and I am okay with the numbers.
You don’t say what market you’re in but I’d guess from your post it is genuinely self employed as opposed to sub-contracting.
Assuming this is correct then my suggestion is firstly and without hesitation I’d raise my rates.
Secondly, take time out to profile your ideal customer, what do they look like, where would you find them and how do they purchase.
Then target your marketing to that person.
Just imagine, you only work with customers that you like, they appreciate the service you provide and are happy to pay what you ask without quibbling.
No more wasters moaning about your rates and fobbing you off comes time to pay.
Sounds good right?
If you charge twice your current rate and get half the work that you currently do (an overly simplified view I know) then you are already in a much better position than you’re currently in.
If you’re not charging enough to cover the wages of another electrician then I’d say your rates are currently too low and last thing you need to do is add financial hardship into the mix by increasing your costs with insufficient incoming, that would send your stress levels stratospheric.
There are a surprising number of tradesmen who, when factoring in the hours worked, are on less than minimum wage.
The same ones often don’t keep an eye on their figures and only once they get their year end figures from their accountant do they realise they’ve had another disaster year.
I’ve lost count of the number of tradesmen I’ve spoken to who base their pricing on what some other hardup tradesman is charging up the road and moan about not having any money.
You may think you can’t raise your prices but believe me I’ve seen hourly rates range from £20ph right up to above £120 per hour.
The only thing stopping you is your own mindset.
A couple of oldie but goody books for you as a business owner-
Profit first by Mike Michalowicz
E Myth revisited by Michael Gerber
Feel free to drop me a PM if I can be of help.
Edited by Nick928 on Monday 12th March 23:37
I do a mix of around 50% private and 50% sub-contract but only have 7 small sub-contract companies I work for and find this works well as most of my tax is already paid and I can normally work the private around the contract. My terms are either payment on completion or weekly if it is ongoing sub-contract. I will not work for anybody who thinks they can hold onto my money for a month, let alone three or four. This also means the most I will ever lose is one weeks money. I personally do not think you are any better protected from downturns by having staff but I can see how people think this.
The main point to stress is not to take on too much work. I try to limit my booked up work to 3 or 4 days a week as I find that I am now being contacted by other tilers or private people who know or are told I am rarely flat out and need work doing "now". I can then charge even more for this work as there is literally no one else to do it. On the odd occasion the time isn't filled I have a paperwork, working on the car or taking the missus out day. No point being self-employed if you cannot take the odd "rest day"
Nick928 said:
There are a surprising number of tradesmen who, when factoring in the hours worked, are on less than minimum wage.
The same ones often don’t keep an eye on their figures and only once they get their year end figures from their accountant do they realise they’ve had another disaster year.
I've taken some flak in previous threads by suggesting trades are, on the whole diabolical at running a business. Primarily because they don't see the difference in trades guy/business guy.The same ones often don’t keep an eye on their figures and only once they get their year end figures from their accountant do they realise they’ve had another disaster year.
I am now helping one raise himself out the mire. But it's painful.
What's your average job price? Blank look.
What's your typical (or ideal) customer? Blank look.
Who do you typically compete with for work? Blank look.
What's their sales process? Blank look.
I could go on...
This is a guy who in his mind has been doing well for the last few years but doesn't have an accountant, hasn't paid any NI and has HMRC chasing him for unpaid taxes.
And the key point I was making in the previous thread was it's ALL about sales and marketing. The problem is a lot of trades guys can't see it.
Nick928 said:
Currently employ several electricians PAYE on the tools plus there is the office side as well so I’ve had a little experience and I am okay with the numbers.
Nick, how did you make the step from being on the tools to employing people? I think its a challenge many companies face, not just in your sector. When I ran a landscaping type company we were always challenged with keeping people busy every day, very tough when its a seasonal business. We were paying contractors more than it would have cost to employ someone to do the work but couldn't have employees sitting around getting paid for not doing anything. Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff