Anyone successfully contested a tender decision?
Discussion
Almost all our work is won via tender and we win around 1 in 3 which I'm not too unhappy about - would like to win them all but you can't (apparently!)
Those we loose I normally chalk up as simply the way things go and often, looking subjectively, I find the decision fair and even where I don't, well....just move onto the next.
However, we lost one last week that we should have won hands down but lost to a company that I know does not conform to HMRC legislation on Freelance workers. This is a staff-heavy contract and we've estimated that they have been able to undercut on price by as much as 16% - 25% on staff costs making it impossible to compete fairly.
We know they do this because the temporary staff who sometimes work for them also work for us and they like us more than them and so volunteer information about how they are employed.
I'm considering contesting on the grounds that the public sector client has failed in its obligation to ensure compliance throughout its supply chain.
I'd be interested to know if anyone's done this and what the outcome was.
Those we loose I normally chalk up as simply the way things go and often, looking subjectively, I find the decision fair and even where I don't, well....just move onto the next.
However, we lost one last week that we should have won hands down but lost to a company that I know does not conform to HMRC legislation on Freelance workers. This is a staff-heavy contract and we've estimated that they have been able to undercut on price by as much as 16% - 25% on staff costs making it impossible to compete fairly.
We know they do this because the temporary staff who sometimes work for them also work for us and they like us more than them and so volunteer information about how they are employed.
I'm considering contesting on the grounds that the public sector client has failed in its obligation to ensure compliance throughout its supply chain.
I'd be interested to know if anyone's done this and what the outcome was.
Doesn't seem like a great way to start a relationship with a client. I'd simply move on.
As someone with a couple of tenders out at the moment, once I've decided I certainly wouldn't change my decision based on someone whining they didn't win and b
hing about the competition. I'd be glad to cross them off the "future tender" list.
As someone with a couple of tenders out at the moment, once I've decided I certainly wouldn't change my decision based on someone whining they didn't win and b
hing about the competition. I'd be glad to cross them off the "future tender" list.rsbmw said:
Doesn't seem like a great way to start a relationship with a client. I'd simply move on.
That's in my mind too. However, this particular authority hardly ever goes out to tender for the sort of work that we do. This is a rare one-off and my concern is in part aimed at the client as much as our own interests. They could face some unwelcome scrutiny for failing to ensure supply chain compliance as they seem oblivious to the need to do so.
StevieBee said:
Almost all our work is won via tender and we win around 1 in 3 which I'm not too unhappy about - would like to win them all but you can't (apparently!)
Those we loose I normally chalk up as simply the way things go and often, looking subjectively, I find the decision fair and even where I don't, well....just move onto the next.
However, we lost one last week that we should have won hands down but lost to a company that I know does not conform to HMRC legislation on Freelance workers. This is a staff-heavy contract and we've estimated that they have been able to undercut on price by as much as 16% - 25% on staff costs making it impossible to compete fairly.
We know they do this because the temporary staff who sometimes work for them also work for us and they like us more than them and so volunteer information about how they are employed.
I'm considering contesting on the grounds that the public sector client has failed in its obligation to ensure compliance throughout its supply chain.
I'd be interested to know if anyone's done this and what the outcome was.
You dont print passports by any chance do you? Those we loose I normally chalk up as simply the way things go and often, looking subjectively, I find the decision fair and even where I don't, well....just move onto the next.
However, we lost one last week that we should have won hands down but lost to a company that I know does not conform to HMRC legislation on Freelance workers. This is a staff-heavy contract and we've estimated that they have been able to undercut on price by as much as 16% - 25% on staff costs making it impossible to compete fairly.
We know they do this because the temporary staff who sometimes work for them also work for us and they like us more than them and so volunteer information about how they are employed.
I'm considering contesting on the grounds that the public sector client has failed in its obligation to ensure compliance throughout its supply chain.
I'd be interested to know if anyone's done this and what the outcome was.
Hoofy said:
daemon said:
You dont print passports by any chance do you?
Forgot that one.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43623750
It's a tough call to be honest. Part of me says just let it go, but if you genuinely lost because of the winning bidders non-compliance offering them the chance to undercut you, then I'd say you have a strong case.
I'm an IT contractor providing services to Government and have run and am involved with Procurement exercises. I've obviously used G-Cloud and Crown Commercial Frameworks and have worked closely with the Procurement guys who work for the organisation I provide services to so know what scrutiny the tender comes under.
The issue is, if the supplier is on a Framework, then it's assumed they are 'approved' and live by the rules, so any tender exercise tends to focus on the output to be provided and any necessary weightings to help determine a winning bidder rather than look at the mechanics of those types of things. Public Sector organisations have to give you feedback on your bid, so if you've got this and can prove where you've been beaten come down to the rules being flouted, then there's no reason why you can't pursue it further.
Being an 'outside of IR35' contractor and having seen much more scrutiny over the use of frameworks, I think any allegation would be taken fairly seriously. I personally have been grilled quite a bit over IR35 so can say from experience that if they bite, no stone will remain unturned as the Government seem to be quite hot on this stuff at the moment.
I'm an IT contractor providing services to Government and have run and am involved with Procurement exercises. I've obviously used G-Cloud and Crown Commercial Frameworks and have worked closely with the Procurement guys who work for the organisation I provide services to so know what scrutiny the tender comes under.
The issue is, if the supplier is on a Framework, then it's assumed they are 'approved' and live by the rules, so any tender exercise tends to focus on the output to be provided and any necessary weightings to help determine a winning bidder rather than look at the mechanics of those types of things. Public Sector organisations have to give you feedback on your bid, so if you've got this and can prove where you've been beaten come down to the rules being flouted, then there's no reason why you can't pursue it further.
Being an 'outside of IR35' contractor and having seen much more scrutiny over the use of frameworks, I think any allegation would be taken fairly seriously. I personally have been grilled quite a bit over IR35 so can say from experience that if they bite, no stone will remain unturned as the Government seem to be quite hot on this stuff at the moment.
TBH you don't have anything to lose but you'd need to word things very carefully. Perhaps a call explaining how your covered all the essential areas including this one and what else could you have done etc. Hopefully they will pick up on it if you subtly emphasise it...
You need them to find out for themselves ideally.
You need them to find out for themselves ideally.
daemon said:
Hoofy said:
daemon said:
You dont print passports by any chance do you?
Forgot that one.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43623750
Cheers for the inputs chaps.
I’m still undecided. I’ve heard one of our other competitors has also raised the same issue so I may let them be the thorn in the side.
daemon said:
You don’t print passports by any chance do you?
Ha. No – that was a strange coincidence!jonamv8 said:
WTF - someone here legitimately wins 1 in 3 tenders?!
I give up on them. Some of the questions, really!!!!!
Well, yes…but there are a couple of mitigating factors too convoluted to convey here that has piqued my interest in this course of action. At any other time, I’d forget it and move on.I give up on them. Some of the questions, really!!!!!
I’m still undecided. I’ve heard one of our other competitors has also raised the same issue so I may let them be the thorn in the side.
JPJPJP said:
I’d also consider whistle blowing to HMRC
Do you have any experience of that actually achieving anything? I've blown the whistle on a number of out-and-out VAT frauds (as well as at least one multi-million-pound insurance fraud to the SFO) over the years, and have seen precisely zero action. In all cases I've been able to give a great deal of detail on the workings of the frauds, and where to look, but... well, I guess they may have other priorities?rsbmw said:
Doesn't seem like a great way to start a relationship with a client. I'd simply move on.
As someone with a couple of tenders out at the moment, once I've decided I certainly wouldn't change my decision based on someone whining they didn't win and bhing about the competition. I'd be glad to cross them off the "future tender" list.
I think that this is the overriding consideration. So I would not do it by raising a legal objection.As someone with a couple of tenders out at the moment, once I've decided I certainly wouldn't change my decision based on someone whining they didn't win and b
hing about the competition. I'd be glad to cross them off the "future tender" list.However, it might be worth meeting with the person responsible for the tender and whispering the fact that the reason the opposition won is because they are non-compliant.
Hopefully he will be a “jobsworth” and do the right thing. He has not made due diligence.
You can ask PSAA for details of the auditor of the relevant public body and approach them. They will almost certainly be interested:
https://www.psaa.co.uk/
https://www.psaa.co.uk/
rdjohn said:
However, it might be worth meeting with the person responsible for the tender and whispering the fact that the reason the opposition won is because they are non-compliant.
Hopefully he will be a “jobsworth” and do the right thing. He has not made due diligence.
Along these lines, I wouldn't contest it formally - I would pick up the phone and say you just wanted to confirm the requirement regarding this particular aspect of the tender. Then mention you had heard from a previous employee that the company who won the contract may not be compliant due to their working procedures.Hopefully he will be a “jobsworth” and do the right thing. He has not made due diligence.
Then I would follow it up with an email with enough detail so the person receiving it can't weasel out of it later and say they didn't know. No civil servant in my experience wants to be left holding the proverbial unexploded hand grenade. So this will ensure it gets passed up the chain to the point where an accountable manager either decides it is not an issue or to take further action.
Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff