Advertising a small business after the end of Yellow Pages?
Discussion
I run a small business part time from home - clock repairs. I've been doing it for 20 years. As the business has grown, I've reduced my hours in employment. I now go out to work 2 days a week.
I've only ever advertised in Yellow Pages, which costs about £40 a year. Most of my work comes via word of mouth, plus a few trade contracts. New business via Yellow Pages and internet searches is maybe 2 or 3 customers a month. I don't have a website.
Yellow Pages is no longer publishing their directories, so they are pushing Yell.com. I had a phone call this morning from a Yell.com salesman, trying to push "greater coverage and a higher placing on searches". Apparently I am only listed in a very local area. If I pay them more, they will ensure I come up in searches over a wider area. He was very reluctant to talk prices, but eventually told me that it would cost £19 a month to get the same area coverage as I was getting in the paper directory. with VAT, that's about 6 times what I have been paying.
Presumably this would really be paying Google to get boosted up the search results?
I can see this being useful for a business that has dozens of competitors, pay extra and appear on the first page of a search.
I don't have that many competitors though, less than a dozen in the whole of Cornwall. Half of those don't actually do what I do anyway. Seems to me that paying extra wouldn't be of any benefit?
What would be the best advertising strategy for someone like me? I don't mind paying for advertising that gets results.
Other directories?
My own website?
I'm basically selling my time and skills, not reselling goods for profit, so the earning potential is limited to "wages" - £10 an hour if I'm lucky, less than that in reality. The most I could ever earn doing this is £20k a year. That's why I keep my 2 days a week, minimum wage, job.
I've only ever advertised in Yellow Pages, which costs about £40 a year. Most of my work comes via word of mouth, plus a few trade contracts. New business via Yellow Pages and internet searches is maybe 2 or 3 customers a month. I don't have a website.
Yellow Pages is no longer publishing their directories, so they are pushing Yell.com. I had a phone call this morning from a Yell.com salesman, trying to push "greater coverage and a higher placing on searches". Apparently I am only listed in a very local area. If I pay them more, they will ensure I come up in searches over a wider area. He was very reluctant to talk prices, but eventually told me that it would cost £19 a month to get the same area coverage as I was getting in the paper directory. with VAT, that's about 6 times what I have been paying.
Presumably this would really be paying Google to get boosted up the search results?
I can see this being useful for a business that has dozens of competitors, pay extra and appear on the first page of a search.
I don't have that many competitors though, less than a dozen in the whole of Cornwall. Half of those don't actually do what I do anyway. Seems to me that paying extra wouldn't be of any benefit?
What would be the best advertising strategy for someone like me? I don't mind paying for advertising that gets results.
Other directories?
My own website?
I'm basically selling my time and skills, not reselling goods for profit, so the earning potential is limited to "wages" - £10 an hour if I'm lucky, less than that in reality. The most I could ever earn doing this is £20k a year. That's why I keep my 2 days a week, minimum wage, job.
I can't help you with your advertising but £10 an hour is ridiculously cheap for repairing clocks. Repairing clocks (properly) is specialist, skilled work, and you ought to be charging as such. The issue with competing on price is you don't end up working on run of the mill serviceable and repairable clocks, you end up with ones that are on their last legs and haven't been looked after because people won't spend the money it takes to look after them properly - until they find you. I bet you could quadruple your hourly rate and not be earning any less than you are now!
clockworks said:
I've only ever advertised in Yellow Pages, which costs about £40 a year. Most of my work comes via word of mouth, plus a few trade contracts. New business via Yellow Pages and internet searches is maybe 2 or 3 customers a month. I don't have a website.
A site doesn't need to cost much - a fiver a month for something built in Wix will give you all you really need.clockworks said:
Presumably this would really be paying Google to get boosted up the search results?
I can see this being useful for a business that has dozens of competitors, pay extra and appear on the first page of a search.
I don't have that many competitors though, less than a dozen in the whole of Cornwall. Half of those don't actually do what I do anyway. Seems to me that paying extra wouldn't be of any benefit?
Certainly seems that way.I can see this being useful for a business that has dozens of competitors, pay extra and appear on the first page of a search.
I don't have that many competitors though, less than a dozen in the whole of Cornwall. Half of those don't actually do what I do anyway. Seems to me that paying extra wouldn't be of any benefit?
SEO comes into its own when you're trying to rise above a huge pool of similar results. A quick google for "Clock repairs Cornwall" shows a fairly short list of results, with Yell high on the list. I presume you're the first, featured, listing on Yell?
clockworks said:
What would be the best advertising strategy for someone like me? I don't mind paying for advertising that gets results.
Other directories?
My own website?
Your own website would be a good backup to the word-of-mouth recommendations. Would it drive new business? Possibly not. If you're not getting much from the existing Yell ad, despite it effectively being one of the highest results, then it's possible there's not much scope for new business there. Ulimately, you're in a low-tech, old-school business. I recently needed a long-case resuscitating - my first ports of call were asking in a local old-school jeweller and a local antique place for recommendations, not the web.Other directories?
My own website?
Efbe said:
own website is a massive pain and unlikely to work well.
try facebook. as much as I hate it, advertising works very well on there and it's easy to set up a page to advertise your business.
FB is of limited use and a web site is easy to set up. It doesn't have to be a stupidly complex Web 2.0 with flashy menus, just a static HTML page with a quick bumf about what the OP does and a few clock pictures will suffice (as long as contact details are easy to find).try facebook. as much as I hate it, advertising works very well on there and it's easy to set up a page to advertise your business.
What you need to be on is Google Maps. The first thing someone with a broken grandfather clock will do is have their valet find someone to fix it... the first thing their valet will do is Google it. Most people these days when looking for something, I.E. alterations, dry cleaning, plumbers, so on and so forth will simply go straight to Google and type in "Plumbers Basingstoke" and get a list of plumbers servicing the Basingstoke area.
OP presumably has a workshop, therefore has an address. Get your business on Google maps and you get it on Google.
Realistically, the Yellow Pages stopped being relevant years ago. The Google has taken over.
captain_cynic said:
FB is of limited use and a web site is easy to set up. It doesn't have to be a stupidly complex Web 2.0 with flashy menus, just a static HTML page with a quick bumf about what the OP does and a few clock pictures will suffice (as long as contact details are easy to find).
What you need to be on is Google Maps. The first thing someone with a broken grandfather clock will do is have their valet find someone to fix it... the first thing their valet will do is Google it. Most people these days when looking for something, I.E. alterations, dry cleaning, plumbers, so on and so forth will simply go straight to Google and type in "Plumbers Basingstoke" and get a list of plumbers servicing the Basingstoke area.
OP presumably has a workshop, therefore has an address. Get your business on Google maps and you get it on Google.
Realistically, the Yellow Pages stopped being relevant years ago. The Google has taken over.
I agree with google maps, incredibly important.What you need to be on is Google Maps. The first thing someone with a broken grandfather clock will do is have their valet find someone to fix it... the first thing their valet will do is Google it. Most people these days when looking for something, I.E. alterations, dry cleaning, plumbers, so on and so forth will simply go straight to Google and type in "Plumbers Basingstoke" and get a list of plumbers servicing the Basingstoke area.
OP presumably has a workshop, therefore has an address. Get your business on Google maps and you get it on Google.
Realistically, the Yellow Pages stopped being relevant years ago. The Google has taken over.
a website however will not get looked at. Without lots of investment you will not be found in google. Even with a lot of investment you won't be found on google.
Should you wish to spend money on advertising, I have found google advertising which works better for websites to be terrible. Facebook seems to drive people to your page/site much much better and has a better conversion rate.
Many people just use facebook for finding information/services.
If you use a website as your base you will not be found by these people, if you use a facebook page you will be found by people using google though.
I must also add I absolutely detest Facebook. But I see it does work well for small businesses.
captain_cynic said:
What you need to be on is Google Maps. The first thing someone with a broken grandfather clock will do is have their valet find someone to fix it... the first thing their valet will do is Google it. Most people these days when looking for something, I.E. alterations, dry cleaning, plumbers, so on and so forth will simply go straight to Google and type in "Plumbers Basingstoke" and get a list of plumbers servicing the Basingstoke area.
In a city, but in a very rural area? The guy I used for the long-case I mentioned is based 20 miles away.Efbe said:
I agree with google maps, incredibly important.
a website however will not get looked at. Without lots of investment you will not be found in google. Even with a lot of investment you won't be found on google.
I disagree, it will be looked at by many. Its an accompaniment to Google Maps. Its Google Maps, not the website that gets you listed on a Google search, the website is just there to explain what you do and provide contact details. People wont find your site through Google, but there is a website link on Google Maps and not having a website means that a lot of people will simply turn off as they've got no idea if you do what they need to.a website however will not get looked at. Without lots of investment you will not be found in google. Even with a lot of investment you won't be found on google.
It doesn't need to be an expensive website, it doesn't need to change and cPanel hosting is dirt cheap.
Efbe said:
I must also add I absolutely detest Facebook. But I see it does work well for small businesses.
I'd agree but with a proviso of it depends on what kind of business. A pub who changes regularly, has sales or hosts events will find FB/Twitter et al. very useful as its a cheap and easy way of letting people know about a thing. For a plumber it's less usually less important as what you do doesn't change from week to week. TooMany2cvs said:
captain_cynic said:
What you need to be on is Google Maps. The first thing someone with a broken grandfather clock will do is have their valet find someone to fix it... the first thing their valet will do is Google it. Most people these days when looking for something, I.E. alterations, dry cleaning, plumbers, so on and so forth will simply go straight to Google and type in "Plumbers Basingstoke" and get a list of plumbers servicing the Basingstoke area.
In a city, but in a very rural area? The guy I used for the long-case I mentioned is based 20 miles away.Of course it provided everything from a conventional music store to bespoke guitar manufacturers though.
Purely as a punter, if I'm searching for products to buy I'll use google.
If I want a service, I had a tap fitted recently. I want recommendations so I'll usually ask on a local facebook group. So I hear about people who are known/trusted.
The recommendations nearly always come with a link to either a FB company page or website, sometimes a person directly.
If I used google I'd check maps and then your website/links to validate you do what I want.
£10 a hour is too cheap. My cleaner and gardener charge more than that.
If I want a service, I had a tap fitted recently. I want recommendations so I'll usually ask on a local facebook group. So I hear about people who are known/trusted.
The recommendations nearly always come with a link to either a FB company page or website, sometimes a person directly.
If I used google I'd check maps and then your website/links to validate you do what I want.
£10 a hour is too cheap. My cleaner and gardener charge more than that.
Efbe said:
a website however will not get looked at. Without lots of investment you will not be found in google. Even with a lot of investment you won't be found on google.
Nonsense; the first thing I do when I look for a local business is look up google maps, click on the info icon for the individual business and then use the website link if there is one to check out exactly what they do - a simple one/two page site is all that is needed. If there is no website link I'll often move on to find another. Not having a website for your business in 2018, even a basic one, if a big turn off for new customers and.Now that is completely different to paying for google/web advertising; given the scope of the OPs business I'd agree that it would maybe not be a good ROI.
parabolica said:
Nonsense; the first thing I do when I look for a local business is look up google maps, click on the info icon for the individual business and then use the website link if there is one to check out exactly what they do - a simple one/two page site is all that is needed. If there is no website link I'll often move on to find another. Not having a website for your business in 2018, even a basic one, if a big turn off for new customers and.
Now that is completely different to paying for google/web advertising; given the scope of the OPs business I'd agree that it would maybe not be a good ROI.
and the google maps can link to a facebook page.Now that is completely different to paying for google/web advertising; given the scope of the OPs business I'd agree that it would maybe not be a good ROI.
for a one man band like this who provides a service rather than a product facebook works very well.
reasons being:
> very easy to run a sales campaign on facebook ads, which is extremely good at tragetting specifically which type of customers you want.
> very easy to add updates, a website will need to have some kind of CMS for this.
> easy for people to add reviews, which is essential for small businesses.
> FB page does facebook and google, website just does google.
> <1 min setup, no cost.
disadvantages being
>need a website to get anywhere on google rankings should you want to expand.
>some people (like me) hate facebook.
To give an example of a similar service I used(am using currently) recently, I needed the transmission on my car rebuilding, the guy I went with was this:
https://www.facebook.com/DanStubbsPerformanceEngin...
That page links from google maps and google search.
It has reviews on it, and I can see the quality of his work from photos he puts up.
Regular updates lets me know it's a current business
Should someone wish to contact him they can phone/email or have FB messenger as well
For a service business like this it works perfectly. No crap site that looks like a 2 year old has built it and probably hasn't been updated in 10 years. Something that works well and integrates well with how people search for services now.
Some food for thought - thanks.
I had thought of using Facebook, but what do you actually do? Is it a case of joining local groups and posting there? Marketplace? Or is there a "proper" way of getting ad exposure?
When I search for "clock repairs cornwall" it is my business that comes up first, on a map. I assume that is Google Maps, since I'm searching with Google. Does this mean I'm "on Google Maps" when other people do the same search? If so, how did I get there? Was it through Yell.com? If I stop paying Yell, will I drop off?
I did correct the location on Google Maps a couple of years ago, as my postcode showed me as located on the next road over.
What's the most cost-effective way of setting up a basic single page website, assuming I can link it to Google Maps? This is something else that Yell.com are trying to sell, at stupid prices.
So many questions, so many options!
As for my prices, I know that I am a bit cheap. I figured that out years ago, as very few people say no. I've been slowly increasing my prices over the last few years since I gave up my proper job.
I'm well aware that some repairers can charge £30 or £40 an hour. From what I can make out, these guys tend to have a shop or dedicated workshop premises, with the associated overheads. They tend to be selective over what work they take, just repairing valuable clocks. The owners are OK with spending £500 plus when the clock is worth thousands.
Different matter if it's something that would fetch £50 to a few hundred at auction.
Most of my work falls into the latter category. I don't turn customers away because the job is beneath me, I try and help them out. Quite a few have already been turned away elsewhere.
I do this work because I enjoy it, not just to earn money. I'd rather fix stuff that challenges me, like an old cuckoo or anniversary clock, or a longcase that's been neglected for years. A sense of achievement bringing something back to life that others have said is not worth the bother, or given up on.
It's this kind of job that lowers my hourly rate.
I had thought of using Facebook, but what do you actually do? Is it a case of joining local groups and posting there? Marketplace? Or is there a "proper" way of getting ad exposure?
When I search for "clock repairs cornwall" it is my business that comes up first, on a map. I assume that is Google Maps, since I'm searching with Google. Does this mean I'm "on Google Maps" when other people do the same search? If so, how did I get there? Was it through Yell.com? If I stop paying Yell, will I drop off?
I did correct the location on Google Maps a couple of years ago, as my postcode showed me as located on the next road over.
What's the most cost-effective way of setting up a basic single page website, assuming I can link it to Google Maps? This is something else that Yell.com are trying to sell, at stupid prices.
So many questions, so many options!
As for my prices, I know that I am a bit cheap. I figured that out years ago, as very few people say no. I've been slowly increasing my prices over the last few years since I gave up my proper job.
I'm well aware that some repairers can charge £30 or £40 an hour. From what I can make out, these guys tend to have a shop or dedicated workshop premises, with the associated overheads. They tend to be selective over what work they take, just repairing valuable clocks. The owners are OK with spending £500 plus when the clock is worth thousands.
Different matter if it's something that would fetch £50 to a few hundred at auction.
Most of my work falls into the latter category. I don't turn customers away because the job is beneath me, I try and help them out. Quite a few have already been turned away elsewhere.
I do this work because I enjoy it, not just to earn money. I'd rather fix stuff that challenges me, like an old cuckoo or anniversary clock, or a longcase that's been neglected for years. A sense of achievement bringing something back to life that others have said is not worth the bother, or given up on.
It's this kind of job that lowers my hourly rate.
clockworks said:
Some food for thought - thanks.
I had thought of using Facebook, but what do you actually do? Is it a case of joining local groups and posting there? Marketplace? Or is there a "proper" way of getting ad exposure?
When I search for "clock repairs cornwall" it is my business that comes up first, on a map. I assume that is Google Maps, since I'm searching with Google. Does this mean I'm "on Google Maps" when other people do the same search? If so, how did I get there? Was it through Yell.com? If I stop paying Yell, will I drop off?
I did correct the location on Google Maps a couple of years ago, as my postcode showed me as located on the next road over.
What's the most cost-effective way of setting up a basic single page website, assuming I can link it to Google Maps? This is something else that Yell.com are trying to sell, at stupid prices.
So many questions, so many options!
As for my prices, I know that I am a bit cheap. I figured that out years ago, as very few people say no. I've been slowly increasing my prices over the last few years since I gave up my proper job.
I'm well aware that some repairers can charge £30 or £40 an hour. From what I can make out, these guys tend to have a shop or dedicated workshop premises, with the associated overheads. They tend to be selective over what work they take, just repairing valuable clocks. The owners are OK with spending £500 plus when the clock is worth thousands.
Different matter if it's something that would fetch £50 to a few hundred at auction.
Most of my work falls into the latter category. I don't turn customers away because the job is beneath me, I try and help them out. Quite a few have already been turned away elsewhere.
I do this work because I enjoy it, not just to earn money. I'd rather fix stuff that challenges me, like an old cuckoo or anniversary clock, or a longcase that's been neglected for years. A sense of achievement bringing something back to life that others have said is not worth the bother, or given up on.
It's this kind of job that lowers my hourly rate.
Yes, that means you are on google maps.I had thought of using Facebook, but what do you actually do? Is it a case of joining local groups and posting there? Marketplace? Or is there a "proper" way of getting ad exposure?
When I search for "clock repairs cornwall" it is my business that comes up first, on a map. I assume that is Google Maps, since I'm searching with Google. Does this mean I'm "on Google Maps" when other people do the same search? If so, how did I get there? Was it through Yell.com? If I stop paying Yell, will I drop off?
I did correct the location on Google Maps a couple of years ago, as my postcode showed me as located on the next road over.
What's the most cost-effective way of setting up a basic single page website, assuming I can link it to Google Maps? This is something else that Yell.com are trying to sell, at stupid prices.
So many questions, so many options!
As for my prices, I know that I am a bit cheap. I figured that out years ago, as very few people say no. I've been slowly increasing my prices over the last few years since I gave up my proper job.
I'm well aware that some repairers can charge £30 or £40 an hour. From what I can make out, these guys tend to have a shop or dedicated workshop premises, with the associated overheads. They tend to be selective over what work they take, just repairing valuable clocks. The owners are OK with spending £500 plus when the clock is worth thousands.
Different matter if it's something that would fetch £50 to a few hundred at auction.
Most of my work falls into the latter category. I don't turn customers away because the job is beneath me, I try and help them out. Quite a few have already been turned away elsewhere.
I do this work because I enjoy it, not just to earn money. I'd rather fix stuff that challenges me, like an old cuckoo or anniversary clock, or a longcase that's been neglected for years. A sense of achievement bringing something back to life that others have said is not worth the bother, or given up on.
It's this kind of job that lowers my hourly rate.
What the other posters are saying, and I agree is you do need some sort of site to link to from that. You will notice the other clock fixeruppers above you in the map results do have these.
You can either have a website or a facebook page for this.
If you had a facebook page you wouldn't need to post in groups. this wouldn't help too much.
However if you wanted to pay for advertising you could quite easily.
If you want to build your own website, then you could use something like this for free:
https://wordpress.com/create/
Efbe said:
I agree with google maps, incredibly important.
a website however will not get looked at. Without lots of investment you will not be found in google. Even with a lot of investment you won't be found on google.
Should you wish to spend money on advertising, I have found google advertising which works better for websites to be terrible. Facebook seems to drive people to your page/site much much better and has a better conversion rate.
Many people just use facebook for finding information/services.
If you use a website as your base you will not be found by these people, if you use a facebook page you will be found by people using google though.
I must also add I absolutely detest Facebook. But I see it does work well for small businesses.
Sorry but you are incorrect. I have a website and people do find it and look at it. I know that because they tell me. I have competition as well. I made it myself and spent nothing on SEO, just learned it myself. a website however will not get looked at. Without lots of investment you will not be found in google. Even with a lot of investment you won't be found on google.
Should you wish to spend money on advertising, I have found google advertising which works better for websites to be terrible. Facebook seems to drive people to your page/site much much better and has a better conversion rate.
Many people just use facebook for finding information/services.
If you use a website as your base you will not be found by these people, if you use a facebook page you will be found by people using google though.
I must also add I absolutely detest Facebook. But I see it does work well for small businesses.
OP get a website or make your own, SEO it, get your name out there on all the directories and start charging more.
clockworks said:
As for my prices, I know that I am a bit cheap. I figured that out years ago, as very few people say no. I've been slowly increasing my prices over the last few years since I gave up my proper job.
I'm well aware that some repairers can charge £30 or £40 an hour. From what I can make out, these guys tend to have a shop or dedicated workshop premises, with the associated overheads. They tend to be selective over what work they take, just repairing valuable clocks. The owners are OK with spending £500 plus when the clock is worth thousands.
Different matter if it's something that would fetch £50 to a few hundred at auction.
My observation is that you are making a classic small business mistake by underestimating your costs and undervaluing your time.I'm well aware that some repairers can charge £30 or £40 an hour. From what I can make out, these guys tend to have a shop or dedicated workshop premises, with the associated overheads. They tend to be selective over what work they take, just repairing valuable clocks. The owners are OK with spending £500 plus when the clock is worth thousands.
Different matter if it's something that would fetch £50 to a few hundred at auction.
Your starting point needs to be changing your mindset by introducing proper pricing. All of the other points about using adwords, investing in a website etc are not yet relevant while you are earning less than £10 / hr.
Let's say the market rate for the service you provide is around £30 - £40 / hr. If you want to compete on price then charge £25 / hr. Just as many people who are concerned about price are also concerned about finding someone they trust and feel they can communicate with. You may also be losing orders by sounding too cheap. After all, none of your competitors will be competing on price and quoting less than £10 /hr.
Making this change will be difficult I think due to your mindset. (This is why I highlighted the particular extract of your post above). However, it is essential to allow your business to move forward and grow.
Once you have made the decision to charge proper pricing you will have the potential to earn over £40k per year.
That is the point to start to think about a marketing strategy to find the customers who can bring you that level of income.
I would start with a simple website, and creating a google maps page for your business. Then I would create a facebook page and start taking photographs of your work to show your passion, skill and interest. Don't forget the adage - perfection is the enemy of the good. So in your case, some good pictures are much better than no pictures which are perfect.
You might also want to approach local jewellers and ask if they offer a clock repair service. They should be easily able to double up what you charge to their customer to make it worthwhile for them.
Overall, you have lots of opportunities to grow your business in a profitable way if you can get the pricing right. Good luck
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 28th April 08:40
I'm already working for one local jeweller who has 2 shops. Business through him has been growing 50% year on year for the 3 years that we have worked together. Quote to job conversion rate is around 95%, and he does double my price, but does have some leeway on expensive jobs. He'd rather make £100 on a £300 job than get nothing.
I also do work for an antique clock seller, and a general antique shop run by a cabinet maker who does my case work.
I know that I undervalue myself. It's something I've done for over 50 years, stuff from parents and school. I've done a lot of work on this in the last 5 years, but it's a hard cycle to break.
I don't think I lose work by being cheap. I think I've had 2 people say no after I've given them a price. Both tried to knock me down.
"Undercharging" seems to be rife in the trade. I remember discussing this with an old boy who'd been doing trade work from home since being invalided out of the RAF. He reckoned he was earning about £3.50 an hour, but grateful to be working as he was in a wheelchair. I was earning more than 3 times that as an IT hardware engineer on national average wage. Similar tales from the watch guys at the last BHI meeting I went to, 20 years ago.
As I see it, there are 2 other things that stop me charging top money:
Working from home. Customers feel safer dealing with someone who has a shopfront, hence they will go via the local jeweller.
No letters after my name. I did start a 3 year BHI course, but dropped out as the first year was mostly filing bits of metal, which I learnt to do at school. I got bored. I should have stuck with it. The guys charging top money all have qualifications and trade membership.
The latter doesn't mean my work is to a lower standard - I regularly get jobs that have recently been through the hands of such people.
I guess I also get scared that the work will dry up. I like to keep busy. I'd rather do more cheap jobs than fewer expensive ones. I likd to havd a month's work on hand, so that I can plan my time
I also do work for an antique clock seller, and a general antique shop run by a cabinet maker who does my case work.
I know that I undervalue myself. It's something I've done for over 50 years, stuff from parents and school. I've done a lot of work on this in the last 5 years, but it's a hard cycle to break.
I don't think I lose work by being cheap. I think I've had 2 people say no after I've given them a price. Both tried to knock me down.
"Undercharging" seems to be rife in the trade. I remember discussing this with an old boy who'd been doing trade work from home since being invalided out of the RAF. He reckoned he was earning about £3.50 an hour, but grateful to be working as he was in a wheelchair. I was earning more than 3 times that as an IT hardware engineer on national average wage. Similar tales from the watch guys at the last BHI meeting I went to, 20 years ago.
As I see it, there are 2 other things that stop me charging top money:
Working from home. Customers feel safer dealing with someone who has a shopfront, hence they will go via the local jeweller.
No letters after my name. I did start a 3 year BHI course, but dropped out as the first year was mostly filing bits of metal, which I learnt to do at school. I got bored. I should have stuck with it. The guys charging top money all have qualifications and trade membership.
The latter doesn't mean my work is to a lower standard - I regularly get jobs that have recently been through the hands of such people.
I guess I also get scared that the work will dry up. I like to keep busy. I'd rather do more cheap jobs than fewer expensive ones. I likd to havd a month's work on hand, so that I can plan my time
clockworks said:
I know that I undervalue myself. It's something I've done for over 50 years, stuff from parents and school. I've done a lot of work on this in the last 5 years, but it's a hard cycle to break.
I don't think I lose work by being cheap. I think I've had 2 people say no after I've given them a price. Both tried to knock me down.
"Undercharging" seems to be rife in the trade. I remember discussing this with an old boy who'd been doing trade work from home since being invalided out of the RAF. He reckoned he was earning about £3.50 an hour, but grateful to be working as he was in a wheelchair. I was earning more than 3 times that as an IT hardware engineer on national average wage. Similar tales from the watch guys at the last BHI meeting I went to, 20 years ago.
As I see it, there are 2 other things that stop me charging top money:
Working from home. Customers feel safer dealing with someone who has a shopfront, hence they will go via the local jeweller.
No letters after my name. I did start a 3 year BHI course, but dropped out as the first year was mostly filing bits of metal, which I learnt to do at school. I got bored. I should have stuck with it. The guys charging top money all have qualifications and trade membership.
The latter doesn't mean my work is to a lower standard - I regularly get jobs that have recently been through the hands of such people.
I guess I also get scared that the work will dry up. I like to keep busy. I'd rather do more cheap jobs than fewer expensive ones. I likd to havd a month's work on hand, so that I can plan my time
Interesting points - you give lucid reasoning for your current approach to pricing. And I suppose I should make clear, I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying that unless you change your pricing, from a business perspective you won't be able to afford to invest and so profitably grow your business.I don't think I lose work by being cheap. I think I've had 2 people say no after I've given them a price. Both tried to knock me down.
"Undercharging" seems to be rife in the trade. I remember discussing this with an old boy who'd been doing trade work from home since being invalided out of the RAF. He reckoned he was earning about £3.50 an hour, but grateful to be working as he was in a wheelchair. I was earning more than 3 times that as an IT hardware engineer on national average wage. Similar tales from the watch guys at the last BHI meeting I went to, 20 years ago.
As I see it, there are 2 other things that stop me charging top money:
Working from home. Customers feel safer dealing with someone who has a shopfront, hence they will go via the local jeweller.
No letters after my name. I did start a 3 year BHI course, but dropped out as the first year was mostly filing bits of metal, which I learnt to do at school. I got bored. I should have stuck with it. The guys charging top money all have qualifications and trade membership.
The latter doesn't mean my work is to a lower standard - I regularly get jobs that have recently been through the hands of such people.
I guess I also get scared that the work will dry up. I like to keep busy. I'd rather do more cheap jobs than fewer expensive ones. I likd to havd a month's work on hand, so that I can plan my time
Getting trade membership is probably worthwhile - I'm sure you would be able to attain a certain level of membership by demonstrating your experience. And members of the public often don't know what the differences are between certain levels of professional membership bodies anyway.
It would be easy for me to say that formal qualifications don't matter - I certainly don't place a large emphasis on them myself. I realised that when I managed to get a 1st class degree in engineering, when I could see in reality I was pretty much the worst engineer you could meet. So passing exams isn't evidence of useful skills. However, if it is linked to a cause of low self confidence or low self esteem, that can be a much more serious issue.
Practically speaking, you won't know the magnitude of some of the risks from increasing your pricing until you test it. But that doesn't changing every quote. Is there a segment of your work what you could positively trial a new plan where you quote consistently based on £30 / hr and see what happens?
I can't advertise in the BHI trade journal without qualifying as a member. They do offer associate membership (not allowed to call yourself a member, use the coat of arms, etc) and trade membership (for associated/retail trades I think, rather than watch and clockmakers). It used to be possible to become a member (Fellow) without taking all the exams. I think you have to write a book and/or get famous in the field of horology.
It might be possible to get membership by demonstrating time served and work done. I'll have to look into that.
There are a couple of other trade bodies. No idea if they are worth joining. Probably not. If the entry requirements are low, that kind of devalues membership.
I have thought about trying to charge more for certain customers (top quality clocks in expensive houses for example), but I just can't bring myself to have multi-level pricing for the same job. I have started to charge a bit more for home visits and collections, and combining callouts to minimise travel time.
To put my position into context, I don't want to grow the business too much. Maybe another 20% or so. I don't want a shop, or any employees. I enjoy what I do because there really isn't much pressure the way it's going now.
I'm 60. I don't want to be one of those guys who dies at the bench. I'll stop when I get bored, or move abroad.
I do actually make enough money to live comfortably, thanks to a couple of final salary pensions. I would like to be able to give up my 2 day a week supermarket job one day though, so another £100 a week in my pocket will be enough.
It might be possible to get membership by demonstrating time served and work done. I'll have to look into that.
There are a couple of other trade bodies. No idea if they are worth joining. Probably not. If the entry requirements are low, that kind of devalues membership.
I have thought about trying to charge more for certain customers (top quality clocks in expensive houses for example), but I just can't bring myself to have multi-level pricing for the same job. I have started to charge a bit more for home visits and collections, and combining callouts to minimise travel time.
To put my position into context, I don't want to grow the business too much. Maybe another 20% or so. I don't want a shop, or any employees. I enjoy what I do because there really isn't much pressure the way it's going now.
I'm 60. I don't want to be one of those guys who dies at the bench. I'll stop when I get bored, or move abroad.
I do actually make enough money to live comfortably, thanks to a couple of final salary pensions. I would like to be able to give up my 2 day a week supermarket job one day though, so another £100 a week in my pocket will be enough.
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