Metal Fabrication Business

[Mudgey]

Morning all,

I was hoping for some advice!

The next logical step for my business is to get in some metalwork equipment to bring my product fabrication in house, nothing is very big or complex so I only need a CNC brake press and aluminium welding equipment.

I have been looking at second hand Amada brake presses which all seem to be up-stroke models, is it worth spending the extra on an electric down-stroke model? The press does not need to be very wide, but I would like to get outside work to put through the equipment to fill in the gaps between producing my own parts. So perhaps a 2m wide model? We could have more tooling set up so that would help.

I am also in need of employing somebody to help with day to day tasks and to run the fab equipment, this is quite a scary proposition as not only will the equipment be quite expensive to buy I will also have an additional overhead in the form of another employee. Overheads and dipping below my safety net stresses me out, I already work stupid hours and the thought of wasting the hard earned money holds me back. For people that set up fabrication businesses was it easy to get work when you started?

[mel]

Where in the country are you?

[Mudgey]

mel said:

Where in the country are you?

The sunny South West!

[mel]

Speak to Don McNeil then at Powell McNeil in Swindon. For what you want I can’t see any real benefit with downstroke you be better off spending it on other machines as I can’t see a press brake and a welding plant being much use without other kit.

[Mudgey]

mel said:

Speak to Don McNeil then at Powell McNeil in Swindon. For what you want I can’t see any real benefit with downstroke you be better off spending it on other machines as I can’t see a press brake and a welding plant being much use without other kit.

Hi mel,

Thanks for the information, I expect you are in this business? if you were setting up to manufacture basic aluminium boxes with either riveted or welded corners from laser cut blanks what other equipment might you look into? I wouldn't mind getting a tumbler/rumbler for deburring parts etc.

Assuming you have been in the business a few years is there anything you would tell yourself if you were starting out again?

I know these are basic questions but I have to start somewhere

Cheers, i'll check them out.

[mel]

It sounds dismissive but the truth is: Subcontract the making of the boxes and stick to putting whatever it is that you put in them, in them. We've got dozens of clients in numerous sectors all putting stuff in or on what we make for them and then selling to end users, these are the guys that are making the best margins, it you're going to be buying in the laser cut blanks from (I assume) a specialist laser cutters then you're already sub'ing the lions share so why carry the overhead of space,staff,machinery when you can just put the lot out to someone that does that sort of thing, order finished boxes and then add a mark up?

Alternatively if you're determined to bring it all in house and it's only thin gauge then look at a cheaper turret punch for straight forward boxes, Don will probably have something like an Amada Arcade 210 for sub £20K add a guillotine, hand tools, and de-burring and all you'll be sub'ing is the powder coating. But whatever you do don't buy either new or second hand tier two machines, I know of someone who did £20k on a cheap chinese thin gauge laser who's regretted it ever since, stick to Amada, Trumpf, Bystronic (Edwards Pierson) and Safan anything else will let you down when you most need it.

(Just looked on his website and Don McNeil has got an old Aries machine, thin turret which is a negative but if it comes with plenty of tooling that'd be a good workhorse)

Oh and don't underestimate the cost of manufacturing software, Radan or Metalsoft will both make you wince when you see the costs for a DVD! (it'll be more that you'll spend on the Pressbrake)

[mel]

Mudgey said:

I wouldn't mind getting a tumbler/rumbler for deburring parts etc.

Don't bother, only any good for small and thick parts (think 50x50mm in 3mm steel) I'd stick with a Backstand and 150mm random orbital (Bosch GEX 150) or if you're doing hundreds of panels all the same maybe something from RSA Rasa but that would be a luxury

[Mudgey]

Thanks again for the replies.

Bringing it in house has its advantages as we have the space, can bring quality control in house and reduce the lead times. It also allows prototyping to be conducted far quicker. Plus we can cherry pick a few jobs to run through the machines, I think all those are positives that justify the outlay for the machinery.

I am not going down the route of a punch press, half of my parts have shapes that would struggle to be punched neatly on a punch press plus I couldn't handle the constant noise of the thing!

How old would you go with a brake-press before software becomes a limiting factor?

[mel]

What Budget do you have for the whole setup?

[Mudgey]

It's difficult to say, i'd rather spend what is needed to do it right the first time.

For arguments sake say lets say 50k, but am flexible.

[Percypercy]

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