Health, Safety and Fire Risks policy needed quick!!!
Discussion
I've run into bother with our insurer at work for not having a nicely documented H&S policy and fire risk assessment for our buildings.
I have until monday (!) to implement this.
Any help would be greatly appreciated - what is it that I need to look for online/resource wise to do this?
Thanks for any help!
I have until monday (!) to implement this.
Any help would be greatly appreciated - what is it that I need to look for online/resource wise to do this?
Thanks for any help!
Hi,
feel free to PM me, I'm a H&S Manager/ fire risk assessor for a large public building with specialist risks.
Policy hsold be easy,
set out a statement that you intend to protect staff and visitors from risk and harm as far as practicable, explain how you will do that (training, site inductions, information signs, ppe etc).
Specify what the risks are, making clear that this list is not exhaustive. focus on specific risks to your business e.g if you work with power tools identify how you will keep people safe. Risk assess using a worse case scenario approach, and only document the things in your power or expectation to manage. ensure all staff are aware of your policy from starting and it is available to all staff and they know where and how to access it.
Fire risk assessment: consider everything that could burn, why it would burn and what you can do to minimise this. Ensure you have a clear written policy of how to manage a fire... "everyone get out and call 999" is a valid fire strategy. you don't need an alarm, you do need an effective way to ensure everyone on your site is aware, immediately, with a failsafe that there is a fire. if you have an open plan office with no side rooms, shouting is fine, alarms are expensive but the easiest way to ensure safety and compliance. the easiest way for a simple site is an on/off switch attached to simple alarms with switches and sirens in every compartment with mains and battery back up. sounds complex, but £100 in maplin (before they went under) will do it.
its a real rabbit hole without knowing any more about the business, but it can be fairly straightforward.
feel free to PM me, I'm a H&S Manager/ fire risk assessor for a large public building with specialist risks.
Policy hsold be easy,
set out a statement that you intend to protect staff and visitors from risk and harm as far as practicable, explain how you will do that (training, site inductions, information signs, ppe etc).
Specify what the risks are, making clear that this list is not exhaustive. focus on specific risks to your business e.g if you work with power tools identify how you will keep people safe. Risk assess using a worse case scenario approach, and only document the things in your power or expectation to manage. ensure all staff are aware of your policy from starting and it is available to all staff and they know where and how to access it.
Fire risk assessment: consider everything that could burn, why it would burn and what you can do to minimise this. Ensure you have a clear written policy of how to manage a fire... "everyone get out and call 999" is a valid fire strategy. you don't need an alarm, you do need an effective way to ensure everyone on your site is aware, immediately, with a failsafe that there is a fire. if you have an open plan office with no side rooms, shouting is fine, alarms are expensive but the easiest way to ensure safety and compliance. the easiest way for a simple site is an on/off switch attached to simple alarms with switches and sirens in every compartment with mains and battery back up. sounds complex, but £100 in maplin (before they went under) will do it.
its a real rabbit hole without knowing any more about the business, but it can be fairly straightforward.
skwdenyer said:
I’ve had insurance policies for years. I’ve never been asked by insurers. Just as a data point.
They will assume you have one and occasionally ask to either see it / how it is conveyed to staff (signed for in handbook) / how frequently it is reviewed (annually) / Management commitment to it (signed by Directors). If you answer any of the above points correctly the 3 yearly insurance inspection leads in one direction. If not, it goes in another.
We have had these for ages:
This year I wanted to really try to get to grips with everything risk related and so I was honest and upfront with the insurer. The result is that they have cancelled our insurance and I’m fighting this as hard as I can. One of the things I have to do is present aforementioned policies by Monday so that the broker can go back to the underwriters and show we have managed to do everything.
It’s frustrating because we have two buildings - both very old - and I’ve committed this year to completely re-wiring both but have had to constantly delay completion with the insurer month after month due to site and tradesman issues. We’ve also ripped out the gas mains in both buildings and gone to electric, installed emergency lighting, moved stock to new distances away from ceilings (big job) and myriad of other changes. I’ve had constant email contact with the broker (around 50 emails) keeping them in touch with progress and the insurer have re extended deadlines and been fine. I had no warning whatsoever that they had “run out of patience” and the first I heard of it was a phone call from the broker on Wednesday to tell me I have 14 days from the previous Monday to find a new insurer as my old one are cancelling.
What is more galling is that a) I’ve been offering the insurer the opportunity to refund the theft part of our cover if we can’t get the alarm requirements covered quickly enough for them and ditto the stillage requirements of lifting the stock 100mm from the floor. No reply to any of those suggestions and in fact no reply to two emails over the last month from me asking for answers to queries. Instead just a cancellation.
Obviously I’m furious with them as I felt that we were progressing to having a tight setup (really tight - not just nod and box tick tight) for 2019 so for them not to give us a “do or die” deadline before doing this is absolutely awful. I’ve gone back to the broker and he’s told me to get the remaining bits outstanding done by Monday and he’ll represent to the underwriter and see if he can get them to change their mind.
So that means I need this nice new H&S, fire safety, call the alarm manufacturers tomorrow to get them to put us on nacoss inspections (annoying in itself as all they do is wave their hands in front of the PIR’s and charge £200 - boils my blood) and I’m good. But reading about fire safety suggests we might need some kind of fire alarms. Found these:
Business employs about 9 people across both sites, by the way, and we have never had an accident or personal injury within the last 50 years worth talking about as we make sure everyone does things carefully and with regard for safety - I’ve just not got that collated onto documents other than the standard dog eared things on the walls.
This year I wanted to really try to get to grips with everything risk related and so I was honest and upfront with the insurer. The result is that they have cancelled our insurance and I’m fighting this as hard as I can. One of the things I have to do is present aforementioned policies by Monday so that the broker can go back to the underwriters and show we have managed to do everything.
It’s frustrating because we have two buildings - both very old - and I’ve committed this year to completely re-wiring both but have had to constantly delay completion with the insurer month after month due to site and tradesman issues. We’ve also ripped out the gas mains in both buildings and gone to electric, installed emergency lighting, moved stock to new distances away from ceilings (big job) and myriad of other changes. I’ve had constant email contact with the broker (around 50 emails) keeping them in touch with progress and the insurer have re extended deadlines and been fine. I had no warning whatsoever that they had “run out of patience” and the first I heard of it was a phone call from the broker on Wednesday to tell me I have 14 days from the previous Monday to find a new insurer as my old one are cancelling.
What is more galling is that a) I’ve been offering the insurer the opportunity to refund the theft part of our cover if we can’t get the alarm requirements covered quickly enough for them and ditto the stillage requirements of lifting the stock 100mm from the floor. No reply to any of those suggestions and in fact no reply to two emails over the last month from me asking for answers to queries. Instead just a cancellation.
Obviously I’m furious with them as I felt that we were progressing to having a tight setup (really tight - not just nod and box tick tight) for 2019 so for them not to give us a “do or die” deadline before doing this is absolutely awful. I’ve gone back to the broker and he’s told me to get the remaining bits outstanding done by Monday and he’ll represent to the underwriter and see if he can get them to change their mind.
So that means I need this nice new H&S, fire safety, call the alarm manufacturers tomorrow to get them to put us on nacoss inspections (annoying in itself as all they do is wave their hands in front of the PIR’s and charge £200 - boils my blood) and I’m good. But reading about fire safety suggests we might need some kind of fire alarms. Found these:
Business employs about 9 people across both sites, by the way, and we have never had an accident or personal injury within the last 50 years worth talking about as we make sure everyone does things carefully and with regard for safety - I’ve just not got that collated onto documents other than the standard dog eared things on the walls.
What sort of building is it?
Your risk assement / insurance will define which category of fire alarm you need
It could be M- just call points and sounders or
l4 - detection in escape routes
L3 detection in escape routes plus rooms leading off
l1 - detection everywhere.
This will also include relay shutdowns for stuff like boilers, BMS etc
Really does depend on a risk asssment as I said as some places shouting fire will be adaquate
I recommend when you get the place rewired you get the sparks to install fire proof cabling for a dire alarm and have it designed by a BAFE registered company, either local or a large national with 3 letters.
That company will be able to provide you with a better service on your intruder and CCTV aswwll
Your risk assement / insurance will define which category of fire alarm you need
It could be M- just call points and sounders or
l4 - detection in escape routes
L3 detection in escape routes plus rooms leading off
l1 - detection everywhere.
This will also include relay shutdowns for stuff like boilers, BMS etc
Really does depend on a risk asssment as I said as some places shouting fire will be adaquate
I recommend when you get the place rewired you get the sparks to install fire proof cabling for a dire alarm and have it designed by a BAFE registered company, either local or a large national with 3 letters.
That company will be able to provide you with a better service on your intruder and CCTV aswwll
AB said:
Insurancejon said:
If you need a new insurance broker that gives you all the tools to do this (3000 documents, templates and how to guides on our client portal) give me a shout;)
I'll be in touch soon too as we're due for renewal and that sounds quite interesting 
What sort of building is it?
Your risk assement / insurance will define which category of fire alarm you need
It could be M- just call points and sounders or
l4 - detection in escape routes
L3 detection in escape routes plus rooms leading off
l1 - detection everywhere.
This will also include relay shutdowns for stuff like boilers, BMS etc
Really does depend on a risk asssment as I said as some places shouting fire will be adaquate
I recommend when you get the place rewired you get the sparks to install fire proof cabling for a dire alarm and have it designed by a BAFE registered company, either local or a large national with 3 letters.
That company will be able to provide you with a better service on your intruder and CCTV aswwll
Your risk assement / insurance will define which category of fire alarm you need
It could be M- just call points and sounders or
l4 - detection in escape routes
L3 detection in escape routes plus rooms leading off
l1 - detection everywhere.
This will also include relay shutdowns for stuff like boilers, BMS etc
Really does depend on a risk asssment as I said as some places shouting fire will be adaquate
I recommend when you get the place rewired you get the sparks to install fire proof cabling for a dire alarm and have it designed by a BAFE registered company, either local or a large national with 3 letters.
That company will be able to provide you with a better service on your intruder and CCTV aswwll
Haha - that poster has been there a long time for sure. I think mother put it there originally as she was keen on things like that. Sadly she died in 2014 and I’ve had to take over the accounts, planning and housekeeping aspects of the business as well as picking up much of Dad’s role since that point when he decided he’d basically had enough. He still tries hard but it’s left me a busy guy because I was busy to start with! If you couple those facts with ever increasing requirements for this kind of thing (back in the day there was a red folder handed out as part of a buying group we are in that basically was all you needed!) it’s easy to see how you’re left a little stranded.
Anyway;
Today we installed the new wireless fire alarms. They seem excellent. We also fitted some new first aid kits.
I wrote out my best effort at a relavent policy for h and s and fire safety and I got our programmer to modify our log in process at work to pop the policy up at staff every time a change to the policy happens, as well as making it visible on a tab on the system.
He also wrote me a “task” system that allows me to set reminders for staff to do things related to this at specified intervals. Their response is then recorded on a transaction log on the database. Seems to work well and since you need to complete or snooze the task (with snoozes recorded on the log) it will make sure nothing gets forgotten.
Now I’ve got to do some “manual handling” training and “how to use ladders” and “how to use a knife” style training. Trying to think of ways to do that without the lads laughing at me and not taking it seriously.
Any help on that?
Anyway;
Today we installed the new wireless fire alarms. They seem excellent. We also fitted some new first aid kits.
I wrote out my best effort at a relavent policy for h and s and fire safety and I got our programmer to modify our log in process at work to pop the policy up at staff every time a change to the policy happens, as well as making it visible on a tab on the system.
He also wrote me a “task” system that allows me to set reminders for staff to do things related to this at specified intervals. Their response is then recorded on a transaction log on the database. Seems to work well and since you need to complete or snooze the task (with snoozes recorded on the log) it will make sure nothing gets forgotten.
Now I’ve got to do some “manual handling” training and “how to use ladders” and “how to use a knife” style training. Trying to think of ways to do that without the lads laughing at me and not taking it seriously.
Any help on that?
Each specific task or process should have its own risk assessment. Once you’ve done the first a lot of it replicates to similar hazards in the second etc....
It’s not as onerous as it sounds.
Each staff member, whilst laughing as you say, should be spoken to about the risk assessments that affect them and should sign a copy of them. They should also sign against any PPE issued to them.
You then use this data to draw up a skills matrix for each employee. You score them as Beginner or Intermediate or Expert. This matrix is agreed with and signed by the Employee. These records are kept annually next to their health surveillance records. Don’t worry, we’ll get on to that next.
An insurer will assess you on risk. The less risk the more insurers will warm to you.
It’s not as onerous as it sounds.
Each staff member, whilst laughing as you say, should be spoken to about the risk assessments that affect them and should sign a copy of them. They should also sign against any PPE issued to them.
You then use this data to draw up a skills matrix for each employee. You score them as Beginner or Intermediate or Expert. This matrix is agreed with and signed by the Employee. These records are kept annually next to their health surveillance records. Don’t worry, we’ll get on to that next.
An insurer will assess you on risk. The less risk the more insurers will warm to you.
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