Planning & Change of permitted use
Discussion
There is an empty unit next to my warehouse which I would like to lease from the landlord.
I plan on turning this unit in to a Garden/DIY/Seasonal/General "warehouse outlet/discount warehouse" and open it to the public, however it only has B2/B8 consent.
The unit is 5,000 sqft on a very small industrial estate, which has a mix of other "retail warehouses" of similar size, such as a furniture outlet, tile showroom, auction house and sports & fitness retailer. The other units are light industrial and a DIY store, so a good mix.
I do have concern over the rates. On this estate, general warehouses are paying £32/m2 and the retail warehouses are paying £52/m2.
Would a change of permitted use with the council's planning department trigger a re-assessment from the VOA? or should I tell them? Can they back date if they find out down the line?
Has anyone ever changed from B2/B8 to A1, or similar and can tell me any problems and costs they encountered?
I used planning portal to check the nearby furniture outlet which had permission to go from B2 to A1 back in 2001 and there was a caveat that they would not be allowed to sell Food or Clothing, as it could impact or other 'nearby retail centres in the town plan'. Thankfully I will be selling housewares/seasonal/xmas/garden etc and going head to head with the nearby DIY store, but could they protest the change of use because it will effect their trade? I know they won't be happy one bit.
Thanks for reading
I plan on turning this unit in to a Garden/DIY/Seasonal/General "warehouse outlet/discount warehouse" and open it to the public, however it only has B2/B8 consent.
The unit is 5,000 sqft on a very small industrial estate, which has a mix of other "retail warehouses" of similar size, such as a furniture outlet, tile showroom, auction house and sports & fitness retailer. The other units are light industrial and a DIY store, so a good mix.
I do have concern over the rates. On this estate, general warehouses are paying £32/m2 and the retail warehouses are paying £52/m2.
Would a change of permitted use with the council's planning department trigger a re-assessment from the VOA? or should I tell them? Can they back date if they find out down the line?
Has anyone ever changed from B2/B8 to A1, or similar and can tell me any problems and costs they encountered?
I used planning portal to check the nearby furniture outlet which had permission to go from B2 to A1 back in 2001 and there was a caveat that they would not be allowed to sell Food or Clothing, as it could impact or other 'nearby retail centres in the town plan'. Thankfully I will be selling housewares/seasonal/xmas/garden etc and going head to head with the nearby DIY store, but could they protest the change of use because it will effect their trade? I know they won't be happy one bit.
Thanks for reading
Yes you should tell the VO, yes you should expect an RV revision and yes they can back date and charge you retrospectively.
As to application for change of use, a number of local circumstances might come into play however generally speaking providing the unit ticks the boxes in terms of reasonableness and practicalities there is a good chance that it would be agreed and especially so if it has been on the market for a while with no taker for existing use. You could structure the transaction in a number of ways, my suggestion would be to have an Agreement for Lease to make the lease conditional on planning for change of use with no unreasonable conditionality. This would give you comfort of knowing you have certainty in the event of the change of use being agreed and the ability to walk away if it is not.
Also before you get too far into this it would be worth checking that there is no pre-existing covenant that might frustrate a change.
As to application for change of use, a number of local circumstances might come into play however generally speaking providing the unit ticks the boxes in terms of reasonableness and practicalities there is a good chance that it would be agreed and especially so if it has been on the market for a while with no taker for existing use. You could structure the transaction in a number of ways, my suggestion would be to have an Agreement for Lease to make the lease conditional on planning for change of use with no unreasonable conditionality. This would give you comfort of knowing you have certainty in the event of the change of use being agreed and the ability to walk away if it is not.
Also before you get too far into this it would be worth checking that there is no pre-existing covenant that might frustrate a change.
ahh well today the planning decision was verbally refused, they're going to send me a letter confirming exactly why but I had a good chat with the case officer on the phone. Lots of umms and hmms from him, but he basically said they don't want any more retail on that estate and it's the "wrong end" of the estate (the estate is a dead end, 5-6 minute walk from one end to the other, with other retail warehouses being 2-3 min walk from me). He quoted "cumulative effect".
Why are the council so afraid of changes to retail? It took them 15 weeks to make this decision.
He wouldn't entertain a membership style scheme either (think Costco/JTF Warehouses), he said they still class it as retail.
To top it off, he suggested I find a property on a local high street which got me going because my application clearly stated the need for customer parking due the bulky goods I'll be selling such as composts, wheel barrows, etc, and the business model does not lend itself to prime rents.
Judging my some of his questions at our first meeting, he can't have read my statement then either.
This would have created 3 full time jobs, and all my wares would have been tools/home improvement and garden/plants, all well matched for the estate as most other merchants are selling something home improvement related whether it be bathroom suites, furniture or tiles.
I have noticed one thing though, many don't bother asking for A1 around here but do it anyway, for example a 10,000sqft building next door but one to me has been running as a sports clothes shop for the last 15 years, open to all and sundry and no record of a planning application. I did bring this up with him a few times but he kept dismissing it as unrelated which I found a bit odd.
To be honest I may just 'do it anyway', assuming the landlord were to accept easy in/easy out (in the event of an enforcement notice). But I would be going head to head with an overpriced large local DIY store run by a local family on the estate, they would probably report me to the council for taking customers away if they noticed my application online says "refused".
My only option now is to appeal but maybe that's a waste of time?
Why are the council so afraid of changes to retail? It took them 15 weeks to make this decision.
He wouldn't entertain a membership style scheme either (think Costco/JTF Warehouses), he said they still class it as retail.
To top it off, he suggested I find a property on a local high street which got me going because my application clearly stated the need for customer parking due the bulky goods I'll be selling such as composts, wheel barrows, etc, and the business model does not lend itself to prime rents.
Judging my some of his questions at our first meeting, he can't have read my statement then either.
This would have created 3 full time jobs, and all my wares would have been tools/home improvement and garden/plants, all well matched for the estate as most other merchants are selling something home improvement related whether it be bathroom suites, furniture or tiles.
I have noticed one thing though, many don't bother asking for A1 around here but do it anyway, for example a 10,000sqft building next door but one to me has been running as a sports clothes shop for the last 15 years, open to all and sundry and no record of a planning application. I did bring this up with him a few times but he kept dismissing it as unrelated which I found a bit odd.
To be honest I may just 'do it anyway', assuming the landlord were to accept easy in/easy out (in the event of an enforcement notice). But I would be going head to head with an overpriced large local DIY store run by a local family on the estate, they would probably report me to the council for taking customers away if they noticed my application online says "refused".
My only option now is to appeal but maybe that's a waste of time?
An appeal is likely to be a lengthy process, you might be better to make a fresh application with a few changes and supported with reasoning to counter the views that resulted in the refusal. You could also do both, raise an appeal and make a new application with some change from the original.
cheekymeerkat said:
My only option now is to appeal but maybe that's a waste of time?
It's going to depend on the specific reasons for refusal.Contrary to popular belief, the Planning system doesn't (or shouldn't) work on the judgement of individual Planning officers - decisions should be clearly justified in terms of written local and national policy, and the reason(s) for refusal will be couched in these terms.
PM me if you need assistance - I run a combined architectural practice and planning consultancy.
As Keep It Stiff says, you also have the option of a revised application (and there is no Planning fee payable on this, if you do it within 12 months of the refusal), and you can submit a revised application in parallel with an appeal, if you wish (the latter often focusses the LPA's mind, when reviewing the revised application).
Hi Guys,
Sorry I must have missed your replies. I had a meeting face to face with the planners after filing a complaint (they left me in limbo and wouldn't refuse or allow it after 4 weeks past the deadline). They've given me a new planning officer who seems to actually know what she's talking about and she's basically told me:
1) I've got no chance of getting A1 consent because it's on an industrial estate, they don't want cumulative effect as some units already have A1.
2) I need to revise the design and access statement in support of "B8 with ancillary sales" instead of A1, and combine my existing unit as a combined application, to show the retail side will only be a small portion of the business sales. (Units are next door to each other with a joining wall).
3) They're going to apply a "personal planning" restriction. As far as I can tell, this is rather unusual?
4) Conditions on the type of goods I can sell (which I'm fine with)
She also told me "we don't check anyway", and referenced IKEA to having a similar planning model apparently.
I'm fairly happy with this. What do you guys think?
Sorry I must have missed your replies. I had a meeting face to face with the planners after filing a complaint (they left me in limbo and wouldn't refuse or allow it after 4 weeks past the deadline). They've given me a new planning officer who seems to actually know what she's talking about and she's basically told me:
1) I've got no chance of getting A1 consent because it's on an industrial estate, they don't want cumulative effect as some units already have A1.
2) I need to revise the design and access statement in support of "B8 with ancillary sales" instead of A1, and combine my existing unit as a combined application, to show the retail side will only be a small portion of the business sales. (Units are next door to each other with a joining wall).
3) They're going to apply a "personal planning" restriction. As far as I can tell, this is rather unusual?
4) Conditions on the type of goods I can sell (which I'm fine with)
She also told me "we don't check anyway", and referenced IKEA to having a similar planning model apparently.
I'm fairly happy with this. What do you guys think?
I think that's the best you're going to get from the council, seems they are being as reasonable as they can be based on the guidelines and the planning policy.
I used to come across this when I acted for a trade counter client, lots of the other units were being snapped up by retailers (tiles, carpets etc) who could acquire units much cheaper than on retail parks and get away with it because councils were turning a blind eye. Nobody put in applications because they knew they would get refused (as the use didn't comply with the consents for the developments), however they were happy to run the risk because of the savings in rent and the fact that no council ever took enforcement action.
The issue my clients faced was that the landlords were achieving higher rents because of the demand for the units, which got passed on to all other occupiers at review no matter what their use was.
I used to come across this when I acted for a trade counter client, lots of the other units were being snapped up by retailers (tiles, carpets etc) who could acquire units much cheaper than on retail parks and get away with it because councils were turning a blind eye. Nobody put in applications because they knew they would get refused (as the use didn't comply with the consents for the developments), however they were happy to run the risk because of the savings in rent and the fact that no council ever took enforcement action.
The issue my clients faced was that the landlords were achieving higher rents because of the demand for the units, which got passed on to all other occupiers at review no matter what their use was.
cheekymeerkat said:
3) They're going to apply a "personal planning" restriction. As far as I can tell, this is rather unusual?
Very.It is something that is strongly discouraged among LPA Planning Officers, as it is questionable in terms of Planning law and policy.
It is sufficiently unusual that I would be professionally interested to see the resultant Planning consent and the wording of the condition they impose; PM me, if you are willing, when you receive it?
As Soxboy says, it does sound as though they are trying to be as reasonable as possible, but once you have an approval in the bag, it may (depending on the nature and wording) be possible to challenge the personal restriction at appeal.
soxboy said:
The issue my clients faced was that the landlords were achieving higher rents because of the demand for the units, which got passed on to all other occupiers at review no matter what their use was.
That's one thing I need to keep in mind at my rent review!@Equus - I'll keep you updated.
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