What are my options? Stuck in a rut
Discussion
Sorry to hear that you are stuck in a rut, I was in a similar position 4 years ago but without the commitments.
Most of the interests you listed as potential ventures are very high barrier to entry due to the capital required (property development, plant) and no one is going to bank roll you for these until you have a proven track record of making money in these areas. One option you have is to look for a job working in those industries and become a human sponge learning as much as possible during the shortest amount of time (24 months minimum). After which you would be in a better but still not great position to go on your own and seek financial backing for the venture.
Based on your situation I think that you need to spend some time saving as much cash as possible so that you can give yourself the chance of trying something new or training in something new without panicking about the mortgage etc. This would give you a 6-12 month window of freedom to pursue the new venture.
This may take some time 12-18 months of hard saving, that is the start of the sacrifice required to start a new venture.
Hopefully this helps, I'm sure there will be someone come along a lot more experienced in those areas to give their advise.
Good luck!
Most of the interests you listed as potential ventures are very high barrier to entry due to the capital required (property development, plant) and no one is going to bank roll you for these until you have a proven track record of making money in these areas. One option you have is to look for a job working in those industries and become a human sponge learning as much as possible during the shortest amount of time (24 months minimum). After which you would be in a better but still not great position to go on your own and seek financial backing for the venture.
Based on your situation I think that you need to spend some time saving as much cash as possible so that you can give yourself the chance of trying something new or training in something new without panicking about the mortgage etc. This would give you a 6-12 month window of freedom to pursue the new venture.
This may take some time 12-18 months of hard saving, that is the start of the sacrifice required to start a new venture.
Hopefully this helps, I'm sure there will be someone come along a lot more experienced in those areas to give their advise.
Good luck!
Do not underestimate the value of being PAYE.
Being self employed can be good but the demands that it can place on you can be massive.
Customers expect you to be able to work all hours pretty much 52 weeks a year.
I am friends with lots of small business owners and the successful ones tend to have many years under their belts.
I am not saying don’t do it but running a small business especially in property seems to be something everyone is doing which tells me it’s not the best idea right now.
Another problem with cottage industry is you often get a lot of retired public service people who have pension income and they just play at it thus making not a lot of profit which means you end up chasing the thin end of the wedge.
I think the first thing I would be doing is looking at a 5 year pdp and looking to move on to a new company.
Being self employed can be good but the demands that it can place on you can be massive.
Customers expect you to be able to work all hours pretty much 52 weeks a year.
I am friends with lots of small business owners and the successful ones tend to have many years under their belts.
I am not saying don’t do it but running a small business especially in property seems to be something everyone is doing which tells me it’s not the best idea right now.
Another problem with cottage industry is you often get a lot of retired public service people who have pension income and they just play at it thus making not a lot of profit which means you end up chasing the thin end of the wedge.
I think the first thing I would be doing is looking at a 5 year pdp and looking to move on to a new company.
Vincecj said:
Start a part time business that could, in time, become your full time business. That's what I did.
Based on the information you have supplied this is your best/only option. Many SMEs are started this way including my own.You say you're not afraid of hard work-it will be. So good luck.
EastMidsEng said:
Always had a love of property / property developing and something I would like to pursue; not sure if this is an option currently because of using help-to-buy on my home plus getting more funds for deposits etc. But this is an area that excites me.
What else interests me – not a lot really which I feel is part of the problem- I can talk myself out of any situation. Sport – yes, gym – yes, interest in building, plant, trucks, diggers big boys toys that kind of thing, stocks/investing yes- outside of these areas not so much.
Been self-employed before after leaving college running an e-bay business, enjoyable, earned some pocket money, learnt a lot but felt I needed to get a “proper job” to move onward and upwards.
With respect when running your e-bay selling was it critical you sold or just pocket money? If you didn't sell could you eat?What else interests me – not a lot really which I feel is part of the problem- I can talk myself out of any situation. Sport – yes, gym – yes, interest in building, plant, trucks, diggers big boys toys that kind of thing, stocks/investing yes- outside of these areas not so much.
Been self-employed before after leaving college running an e-bay business, enjoyable, earned some pocket money, learnt a lot but felt I needed to get a “proper job” to move onward and upwards.
I'm pretty sure every self employed person has been awake at 2 am worrying about where the next mortgage payment is coming from or why the phone hasn't rung for a week (I am that man that rang his own land line to make sure it still worked).
FOMO? Fear of missing out of what? Unbearable financial pressure, not knowing where the money is coming from to house and feed your young family? The terrible feeling when you know you've screwed up and the buck has only one place to stop? Again I'm pretty sure every self employed person has had their guts falling out feeling (I know I did the day I copied a large file and the server that ran a steel mill crashed).
Fear of missing out on totally unreasonable clients who refuse to pay for three months work and there's absolutely nothing you can do as it was subcontracted work and the main guy was your friend and he had a young family (note was).
Fear of missing out of not knowing where the next customer will come from and doesn't seem to be appearing despite all your marketing efforts?
All that said I did it with 3 kids, a mortgage, a job for life offering a good pension which i walked/ran/sprinted away from. The big difference was that I knew what I wanted to do and no FOMO involved. I had been moonlighting a bit for a few months and had arranged work that would keep me going for 6 months for sure. I did it for 30+ years and probably made every mistake that could be made in my line of work but I survived and kept going until I was screwed over three times it quick succession and I threw in the towel in at retirement age. I earned a lot of money and on balance I was happy. I enjoyed the rough and tumble of finding work, doing it and then getting more work.
Marketing is non-optional. I am crap at marketing and networking and my work came through word of mouth. A friend in the same line of work was less able but a born salesman and was rarely short of work. Are you good at marketing and dealing with others? Honestly are you, for some lines of work it's absolutely essential.
I dare say many others will say they managed well and suffered none of my problems which were probably of my own making but it can be horrible to face large problems alone so you need some good friends you can vent to and ask for advice. You need a full on supportive wife/partner as well.
FOMO is a lousy reason to go self employed - loving what you intend to do is a good reason to do it and in my opinion is most likely to lead to success. I always bounced up to clients smiling, always with solutions because I really enjoyed solving problems and I wanted to be paid for doing it.
Then again I'd say what do I know? One thing I do know is that I have come across as a miserable old git which I wasn't.
If you want to do it then go for it but know what your goal is and have a very clear plan for the first two years at least if it is your sole source of income and make sure you can cover all your predictable expenses for three months minimum before you start.
Oh and don't get ill or expect long holidays - you pay for all that now and as was said your customers expect you there 52 weeks of the year, probably weekends and evenings included. I was ruthless; don't expect to talk to me after 5pm, weekends or when I'm on holiday unless it's a crisis. They learnt that I meant it and the 5pm thing became a running joke. I wanted a life. Of course this isn't applicable for property development for example as that is far more random in terms of what you do when.
Also I think red_slr made some very good points.
If I get flamed then I suspect I deserve it
Mike
Mike, can't see why you'd be flamed. That sounds like a lot of good advice based on me starting my own business 2 years ago (but others before that).
At the same age/situation as the OP I did what he is thinking of. I lost 15k and ending up temping in admin jobs after being in a mid management job. I had a flashy company car and ended up in an old Nissan Primera. I didn't know what I was doing all, I just had had enough of working for a corporate. Stupid decision. Knowing what I know now I'd never have left.
It CAN work out but in most cases it won't and with a family to support you can go from hero to massively less than zero in no time at all.
By the time I started up again I had a second income already and no kids, small mortgage etc and so it was fairly easy, if challenging. At 30 it would have been all over in a few months.
OP, if you're really sure you can do it then great BUT be 1000% sure you can. Mike highlights a lot of the issues you will face.
At the same age/situation as the OP I did what he is thinking of. I lost 15k and ending up temping in admin jobs after being in a mid management job. I had a flashy company car and ended up in an old Nissan Primera. I didn't know what I was doing all, I just had had enough of working for a corporate. Stupid decision. Knowing what I know now I'd never have left.
It CAN work out but in most cases it won't and with a family to support you can go from hero to massively less than zero in no time at all.
By the time I started up again I had a second income already and no kids, small mortgage etc and so it was fairly easy, if challenging. At 30 it would have been all over in a few months.
OP, if you're really sure you can do it then great BUT be 1000% sure you can. Mike highlights a lot of the issues you will face.
Employees are another mine field, especially if you are looking to go in the trades. I have been running my business 11 years now and it gets harder every year to find decent people.
As soon as you do find someone decent they usually stick around a year to get skilled up then go off on their own and that can be very hard esp if you are just starting out yourself.
As soon as you do find someone decent they usually stick around a year to get skilled up then go off on their own and that can be very hard esp if you are just starting out yourself.
EastMidsEng said:
I’ve have had offers for work from family and friends and friends of friends, all good but difficult to properly purse due to 8-5 work commitments Mon-Fri, family etc.
If they are good family / friends they'll let you do the work evenings/ weekends. Perhaps use some of your work holiday as well. Then get a facebook page for the business and get those family / friends to leave a positive review. Take instagram pictures of every job. Then move onto the promises of work from friends of friends, you don't have to tell those people you have day job. You can say "I'm really busy, fully booked, at the moment but I could squeeze you in next Tuesday evening etc."You'll soon have a stream of work from recommendations at that point you can leave your day job or if the stream doesn't come, re-evaluate.
No flaming from me Mike, that's all great stuff.
As others have said, best to build something part-time if you can. I've been self-employed a little over 5 years now and that's not the way I did it, but that's because my then employers started a redundancy process which gave me the kick I needed.
I wouldn't change where I am now for the world, but I'd prefer not to have done quite so much credit-card maxing to keep afloat in the early years.
As others have said, best to build something part-time if you can. I've been self-employed a little over 5 years now and that's not the way I did it, but that's because my then employers started a redundancy process which gave me the kick I needed.
I wouldn't change where I am now for the world, but I'd prefer not to have done quite so much credit-card maxing to keep afloat in the early years.
Ideally as above, part time project that at the outset will only make beer money, but if you show ambition and drive can make it work, only quit your job when the changeover isnt going to mean you miss a mortgage payment.
I managed to do it back in 2007 making the switch from IT networking into the world of property development but was only able to do so with financial support from my mum. Best decision i ever made but it was a long slog and took years to exceed the income levels i previously had in stable employment.
Being a tradesman has a lot of downsides, most of them listed above, whereas your current job might be mediocre its at least consistently mediocre and that brings with it a certain level of assurance. The world of self employment brings with it a roller coaster of good, bad and utterly b
ks days at work, it certainly is a test of perseverance some days.
I managed to do it back in 2007 making the switch from IT networking into the world of property development but was only able to do so with financial support from my mum. Best decision i ever made but it was a long slog and took years to exceed the income levels i previously had in stable employment.
Being a tradesman has a lot of downsides, most of them listed above, whereas your current job might be mediocre its at least consistently mediocre and that brings with it a certain level of assurance. The world of self employment brings with it a roller coaster of good, bad and utterly b
ks days at work, it certainly is a test of perseverance some days.My fear of flaming was because I rained on someone's parade. If the OP has the fire to do this then he should with his eyes wide open and ignore old gits like me.
In my innocence I'd have thought if OP has a trade then if he's good that's the way to go. We all know how hard is it to get a good reliable electricians or plumbers? But it must be a harum scarum life if you do lots of one off jobs or really boring if you work on developments day after day. Got to be good at it though and I guess say goodbye to regular hours.
It's the financing of building a property portfolio that scares me - as I understand it quite frequently it's a complicated pyramid of debt that could collapse if interest rates change. Add to that what hard work being a landlord can be and I do wonder about doing it. That said the three rentals I own (outright) are part of my pension and do generate a better return than savings. I have been lucky with my excellent tenants but even so I have had two rogues.
There's no free money - if there was we would all be doing it.
Mike
In my innocence I'd have thought if OP has a trade then if he's good that's the way to go. We all know how hard is it to get a good reliable electricians or plumbers? But it must be a harum scarum life if you do lots of one off jobs or really boring if you work on developments day after day. Got to be good at it though and I guess say goodbye to regular hours.
It's the financing of building a property portfolio that scares me - as I understand it quite frequently it's a complicated pyramid of debt that could collapse if interest rates change. Add to that what hard work being a landlord can be and I do wonder about doing it. That said the three rentals I own (outright) are part of my pension and do generate a better return than savings. I have been lucky with my excellent tenants but even so I have had two rogues.
There's no free money - if there was we would all be doing it.
Mike
IMHO in todays market property development is a way for rich people to get richer.
If you try and do it on a shoe string the risks are just too high, and the access to finance is much more tricky now with stress tests being much harder to pass.
I know a few people with large property portfolios and even they have stopped buying and renovating now. A couple of them are even slowly selling off property now, which for me is a sign the market is shifting.
As for becoming a tradesman, its certainly something to consider but I would move forward slowly and look at evening and weekend work for at least 12 months first to build some customers and build a bit of capital.
If you try and do it on a shoe string the risks are just too high, and the access to finance is much more tricky now with stress tests being much harder to pass.
I know a few people with large property portfolios and even they have stopped buying and renovating now. A couple of them are even slowly selling off property now, which for me is a sign the market is shifting.
As for becoming a tradesman, its certainly something to consider but I would move forward slowly and look at evening and weekend work for at least 12 months first to build some customers and build a bit of capital.
drmcw said:
My fear of flaming was because I rained on someone's parade. If the OP has the fire to do this then he should with his eyes wide open and ignore old gits like me.
I think that is what is good about PH. People tell you why it's not a good idea and why and so if you want to go for it you get a heads up on the potential challenges. Friends and family will be nice to you and be supportive, even if it's a terrible idea. I know people say 'got to learn it for yourself' but IMO that's stupid and often very costly.
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