Self employed bad weather issues
Discussion
I suspect we have all had issues at one point with getting to jobs with the weather or breakdowns but wanted just to sound people out for occasions when they are effectively sub contracting as to who pays when the travel plans go wrong due to bad weather and the like where nobody is to blame for the delay..
Yesterday a guy for whom I work as a sub contractor once ot twice a month sent me to do a job in Sweden, planned months in advance, flights recommended by the commissioning client. I incurred about £350 in costs to travel to a hotel, stay at a hotel the night before and get the early flight out with a change at Brussels. Delayed flight then an accident with the aircraft on an icy taxiway, long story, I missed my connection and couldn't get another flight in time. I lost a day's wages. Spent 27 hours getting there and back.
Today he doesn't want to come to a deal on the expenses or the pay. He said he would try to cover costs I cannot recover on travel insurance or through the airline but as he wasn't being paid he doesn't think it is his problem.
I offered to reduce my day rate and go shares with him on the loss of time but he wasn't interested. I was a bit annoyed as I had offered to fly the night before but they declined as the flights were more expensive and it was them who recommend the flights I did take as they wanted to keep the cost down to avoid flying direct with BA.
I am thinking i need to build something into my day rate in future or put a T&C that they pay a % if, due to weather etc. I cannot make the site having started the journey.
Certainly this guy will be getting a surcharge until my day is recovered.
What arrangements do you have in place. if any?
Yesterday a guy for whom I work as a sub contractor once ot twice a month sent me to do a job in Sweden, planned months in advance, flights recommended by the commissioning client. I incurred about £350 in costs to travel to a hotel, stay at a hotel the night before and get the early flight out with a change at Brussels. Delayed flight then an accident with the aircraft on an icy taxiway, long story, I missed my connection and couldn't get another flight in time. I lost a day's wages. Spent 27 hours getting there and back.
Today he doesn't want to come to a deal on the expenses or the pay. He said he would try to cover costs I cannot recover on travel insurance or through the airline but as he wasn't being paid he doesn't think it is his problem.
I offered to reduce my day rate and go shares with him on the loss of time but he wasn't interested. I was a bit annoyed as I had offered to fly the night before but they declined as the flights were more expensive and it was them who recommend the flights I did take as they wanted to keep the cost down to avoid flying direct with BA.
I am thinking i need to build something into my day rate in future or put a T&C that they pay a % if, due to weather etc. I cannot make the site having started the journey.
Certainly this guy will be getting a surcharge until my day is recovered.
What arrangements do you have in place. if any?
Isn't it one of the risks of being in business for yourself?
Obviously the T&C's of the contract between the two of you will dictate who owes what to who, but have you considered that the other side of the coin could be that you might owe him something because of your failure to turn up and do the job that you were contracted to do?
Obviously the T&C's of the contract between the two of you will dictate who owes what to who, but have you considered that the other side of the coin could be that you might owe him something because of your failure to turn up and do the job that you were contracted to do?
Depends on what basis you are charging your client.
Let's start with the easy scenario - let's say you were a staff member rather than a contractor. If I as the employer decide I would like you to do some work in Sweden, then I choose the flights, I pay the expenses, and I pay for your time whilst there,
Next step along is that you are a contractor, paid on a daily rate, where you have a normal place of work. If I, as the client, ask you to travel somewhere like Sweden, I would expect to pay for your time getting there as well as your normal daily rate plus expenses.
In both of the examples above, the costs are not dependant on the work being completed - that is my responsibility - I am just buying your labour.
The next step is I approach a third party company to provide some contractor labour in Sweden. I ask you to provide me with a quote for the work required. You quote £x + £y expenses.
In this scenario, you don't make it to site for some reason (through no fault of your own) but, regardless, the work doesn't get completed. In this example, you can't charge the client for your expenses or your time.
As to whether the client specified your flight, that's a red herring. In the first of the two scenarios above, the client is responsible regardless, so it is entirely reasonable for them to choose the flight.
If however, you are an independent company responsible for providing an agreed amount of labour in Sweden for a specified amount of expenses, the choice of flight is yours to make. You just need to let the client know the costs in advance at the time they are deciding whether to make the booking with you.
If they asked you to consider a cheaper flight, whether or not you decide to take that option, it doesn't transfer the responsibility over to them.
Let's start with the easy scenario - let's say you were a staff member rather than a contractor. If I as the employer decide I would like you to do some work in Sweden, then I choose the flights, I pay the expenses, and I pay for your time whilst there,
Next step along is that you are a contractor, paid on a daily rate, where you have a normal place of work. If I, as the client, ask you to travel somewhere like Sweden, I would expect to pay for your time getting there as well as your normal daily rate plus expenses.
In both of the examples above, the costs are not dependant on the work being completed - that is my responsibility - I am just buying your labour.
The next step is I approach a third party company to provide some contractor labour in Sweden. I ask you to provide me with a quote for the work required. You quote £x + £y expenses.
In this scenario, you don't make it to site for some reason (through no fault of your own) but, regardless, the work doesn't get completed. In this example, you can't charge the client for your expenses or your time.
As to whether the client specified your flight, that's a red herring. In the first of the two scenarios above, the client is responsible regardless, so it is entirely reasonable for them to choose the flight.
If however, you are an independent company responsible for providing an agreed amount of labour in Sweden for a specified amount of expenses, the choice of flight is yours to make. You just need to let the client know the costs in advance at the time they are deciding whether to make the booking with you.
If they asked you to consider a cheaper flight, whether or not you decide to take that option, it doesn't transfer the responsibility over to them.
As with most issues like this it comes down to how badly you want to work for your client again. If he won't cover the costs then either write him off (if you don't care about working for him again) or slowly recover the loss through a higher rate. Forget the loss of income; that's just the way it goes.
In future consider covering issues like this in your T&Cs (you do have a contract, don't you?).
In future consider covering issues like this in your T&Cs (you do have a contract, don't you?).
Part of the risk of being self employed.
Look at it another way ....
How much would you expect to pay someone you had contracted some work for if they couldn't make it due to weather and they had incurred expenses.
My guess is you would not expect to pay anything as the job hadn't been done.
Look at it another way ....
How much would you expect to pay someone you had contracted some work for if they couldn't make it due to weather and they had incurred expenses.
My guess is you would not expect to pay anything as the job hadn't been done.
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