Where to send a refund?? Frauldent orders...
Discussion
On one of our e-commerce sites; we had two fraudulent orders placed a few weeks ago. Both for £2500 each. Our systems flagged the orders; and after some back and forth with the fraudsters; we just said ‘not happening’ and cancelled the courier pickups for them.
So, having 5k sat in our bank, that’s not ours - I contact the card issuer (Swiss bank / Visa card issuer) who say to email in all of the details. So we did that and have heard nothing. Any chasing up, seems to amount to nothing. Strange in my mind; and I don’t want to just refund the card used - and they advised not to at the time.
Someone is missing 5k; probably more as the fraudsters will have placed many more orders. Both orders were to be delivered to (ever so slightly) incorrect addresses in Hull. What do these frausters do? Wait outside and look for the DPD van??
I’ve only experienced one other e-commerce hiccup; where someone bought an VERY expensive motorsport helmet on a CC and then claimed it back through their CC company saying they’d never placed that order. But 30 minutes online, I’d found out everything about the chap; even his family members; addresses and even pictures of him using the helmet! He soon paid up.
But these Hull orders are something else altogether. And now, nobody seems bothered or willing to help get the money back to the rightful owner.
So, having 5k sat in our bank, that’s not ours - I contact the card issuer (Swiss bank / Visa card issuer) who say to email in all of the details. So we did that and have heard nothing. Any chasing up, seems to amount to nothing. Strange in my mind; and I don’t want to just refund the card used - and they advised not to at the time.
Someone is missing 5k; probably more as the fraudsters will have placed many more orders. Both orders were to be delivered to (ever so slightly) incorrect addresses in Hull. What do these frausters do? Wait outside and look for the DPD van??
I’ve only experienced one other e-commerce hiccup; where someone bought an VERY expensive motorsport helmet on a CC and then claimed it back through their CC company saying they’d never placed that order. But 30 minutes online, I’d found out everything about the chap; even his family members; addresses and even pictures of him using the helmet! He soon paid up.
But these Hull orders are something else altogether. And now, nobody seems bothered or willing to help get the money back to the rightful owner.
DO NOT REFUND IT!!!
it will ultimately be reclaimed and your refund might be to another dept in another country.
It would open up a whole world of hassle you don’t need.
Sit on it and wait for it to be clawed back, most do but some don’t which means you win (it’s just offset till you get inevitably let one through)
it will ultimately be reclaimed and your refund might be to another dept in another country.
It would open up a whole world of hassle you don’t need.
Sit on it and wait for it to be clawed back, most do but some don’t which means you win (it’s just offset till you get inevitably let one through)
DSLiverpool said:
DO NOT REFUND IT!!!
it will ultimately be reclaimed and your refund might be to another dept in another country.
It would open up a whole world of hassle you don’t need.
Sit on it and wait for it to be clawed back, most do but some don’t which means you win (it’s just offset till you get inevitably let one through)
Thanks! Yes I suspected as much; regard the refund and then a claim still coming in. it will ultimately be reclaimed and your refund might be to another dept in another country.
It would open up a whole world of hassle you don’t need.
Sit on it and wait for it to be clawed back, most do but some don’t which means you win (it’s just offset till you get inevitably let one through)
What would the fraudsters have done? Wait for a DPD van and just say it’s for them? The addresses don’t exist but are not far off, wording wise, actual addresses. We even had them emailing us asking for the tracking and delivery slot prediction. Cheeky b
ds. DSLiverpool said:
DO NOT REFUND IT!!!
it will ultimately be reclaimed and your refund might be to another dept in another country.
It would open up a whole world of hassle you don’t need.
Sit on it and wait for it to be clawed back, most do but some don’t which means you win (it’s just offset till you get inevitably let one through)
We always refund suspicious orders. We’ve been using your advice of refund between 1p and a £1 and ask them the amount, that’s saved us a few dodgy orders thanks!!it will ultimately be reclaimed and your refund might be to another dept in another country.
It would open up a whole world of hassle you don’t need.
Sit on it and wait for it to be clawed back, most do but some don’t which means you win (it’s just offset till you get inevitably let one through)
But if it’s clearly fraud we’ve always refunded, so you’re saying don’t, but what about the chargeback fee and risk of account limitations with Stripe etc?
OP we’ve had a lot of fraud in the past couple of years. We’ve got pretty good at detecting it now and very rarely losing out to credit card fraud. About to lose £2000 on a bathroom TV that was bought fraudulently via finance though. Divido’s Integration with Magento lets the user put a different billing address on the order form to the finance application form!
Going to implement 3D secure soon as well to reduce the risk.
I’d have thought selling motorcycle goods would be lots of fraud attempts?
And usually they redirect the carrier or they are sat outside. That’s why they are always so keen on express delivery with tracking numbers (I.e time slot)
MrSparks said:
DSLiverpool said:
DO NOT REFUND IT!!!
it will ultimately be reclaimed and your refund might be to another dept in another country.
It would open up a whole world of hassle you don’t need.
Sit on it and wait for it to be clawed back, most do but some don’t which means you win (it’s just offset till you get inevitably let one through)
We always refund suspicious orders. We’ve been using your advice of refund between 1p and a £1 and ask them the amount, that’s saved us a few dodgy orders thanks!!it will ultimately be reclaimed and your refund might be to another dept in another country.
It would open up a whole world of hassle you don’t need.
Sit on it and wait for it to be clawed back, most do but some don’t which means you win (it’s just offset till you get inevitably let one through)
But if it’s clearly fraud we’ve always refunded, so you’re saying don’t, but what about the chargeback fee and risk of account limitations with Stripe etc?
OP we’ve had a lot of fraud in the past couple of years. We’ve got pretty good at detecting it now and very rarely losing out to credit card fraud. About to lose £2000 on a bathroom TV that was bought fraudulently via finance though. Divido’s Integration with Magento lets the user put a different billing address on the order form to the finance application form!
Going to implement 3D secure soon as well to reduce the risk.
I’d have thought selling motorcycle goods would be lots of fraud attempts?
And usually they redirect the carrier or they are sat outside. That’s why they are always so keen on express delivery with tracking numbers (I.e time slot)
We had this problem when we first started with our online business, after the first inevitable chargeback we realised that if someone paid with a fraudulent card (probably stolen), if we refused the order and refunded to the same card used we would be risk free and also in the clear.
We also learned to trust Shopify's fraud analysis.
Last time it flagged up a dodgy order, we waited until the customer phoned up chasing his order.
We asked for the address the card was registered to, which differed from the delivery address
Blustering at first, the Nigerian gentleman wouldn't or couldn't tell us and eventually hung up.
Refund made, case closed.
Apart from chargeback costs, it also affects your future card rates due to the risk element.
We also learned to trust Shopify's fraud analysis.
Last time it flagged up a dodgy order, we waited until the customer phoned up chasing his order.
We asked for the address the card was registered to, which differed from the delivery address
Blustering at first, the Nigerian gentleman wouldn't or couldn't tell us and eventually hung up.
Refund made, case closed.
Apart from chargeback costs, it also affects your future card rates due to the risk element.
LDN said:
Hmmm so you’re saying that you would refund the card? I was advised not to and others here seem to say not to. I will delve deeper.
There's no reason to refund it. If it's a stolen card, the owner will raise a chargeback eventually. In the meantime, keep the cash and earn some interest on it.Doofus said:
LDN said:
Hmmm so you’re saying that you would refund the card? I was advised not to and others here seem to say not to. I will delve deeper.
There's no reason to refund it. If it's a stolen card, the owner will raise a chargeback eventually. In the meantime, keep the cash and earn some interest on it.DO NOT REFUND.
MrSparks said:
And usually they redirect the carrier or they are sat outside. That’s why they are always so keen on express delivery with tracking numbers (I.e time slot)
When someone scammed EE and others using my name and address (4 iPhones and a laptop) they were sat outside with a fake driving licence and intercepted the courier.RM said:
MrSparks said:
And usually they redirect the carrier or they are sat outside. That’s why they are always so keen on express delivery with tracking numbers (I.e time slot)
When someone scammed EE and others using my name and address (4 iPhones and a laptop) they were sat outside with a fake driving licence and intercepted the courier.ds. 
DSLiverpool said:
DONT REFUND IT! And if anyone is on Shopify then the built-in free fraud analysis is excellent.
Agree about Shopify, but still disagree about refundsIf someone walks up to you, shoots your partner and passes you the smoking gun, would you take it ? 10 seconds later the Plod comes charging round the corner......
dartissimus said:
DSLiverpool said:
DONT REFUND IT! And if anyone is on Shopify then the built-in free fraud analysis is excellent.
Agree about Shopify, but still disagree about refundsIf someone walks up to you, shoots your partner and passes you the smoking gun, would you take it ? 10 seconds later the Plod comes charging round the corner......
Speaking from experience I would only ever refund when it’s clawed back.
DSLiverpool said:
dartissimus said:
DSLiverpool said:
DONT REFUND IT! And if anyone is on Shopify then the built-in free fraud analysis is excellent.
Agree about Shopify, but still disagree about refundsIf someone walks up to you, shoots your partner and passes you the smoking gun, would you take it ? 10 seconds later the Plod comes charging round the corner......
Speaking from experience I would only ever refund when it’s clawed back.
a much larger order stands out a mile, and with a Shopify flag against it, sets off every alarm
Also our demographic, ladies who sew is not rife with dodgy card fraudsters; and a 50%+ repeat rate, we are definitely on the low risk side.
Now the joys of Paypal disputes....... DPD is definitely worth the extra money
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