Fair accountancy fees?
Discussion
Hello
Any thoughts appreciated - especially from any accountants.
I am at the 18th month mark for my LTD, started Sep 17. My accountants seemed pretty good at the start - answering queries etc but have become progressively worse over the year. They often do not respond to email queries and when they do they don't answer the questions asked. They advised me to become VAT registered. Colleagues suggested this was not a good idea as my turnover is minimal. So in the end I've ended up claiming around £500 back on VAT and paying £500 VAT owed. The accountant then gave me the years invoice which included limited company account's 850+vat, self assessment 250+vat and vat returns - £500+vat.
For the last VAT return I was not convinced by the numbers they provided and so worked it out myself, emailed them the figured and they emailed back agreeing they'd made a mistake (around £400 out). Each VAT return maybe has around 10 items on it.
I want to move accountants and have contacted a new accountant. They seem more on the ball but understandably want a lump sum of £900 to calculate the company return for 17-18 which is outstanding. And then their monthly fee.
So in effect I'll be paying the old accountant their yearly fee, and the new accountant a lump sum for the first year returns and then the on going monthly fees.
My issue is paying the previous accountant the entire years LTD fee when they haven't done the first years returns (Sep 17- Sep 18).
I'm trying to find the original email stipulating their fees - the engagement letter says for "scope of work":
Analysis of business transactions, and allocation of expenses under different heads
Preparation & filing of statutory accounts and corporation tax return.
Routine corresponding with HMRC and companies house. Please note any
tax enquiries will be not included in the quotation provided and will be dealt
under separate engagement.
Any additional services as requested by client as agreed in advance.
I'm happy to pay them for the bits of advice they have given and doing the self assessment but it doesn't seem fair to pay the full fee when no ltd account's have been filed. Am I being unreasonable?
Also - I am pretty sure I never returned the engagement letters (I emailed back asking if I can email or post and they never replied). So they have nothing signed saying I agree to their terms.
I have considered doing the returns myself but the LTD should hopefully grow this year and so I would prefer to have an accountant.
Any thoughts appreciated
Any thoughts appreciated - especially from any accountants.
I am at the 18th month mark for my LTD, started Sep 17. My accountants seemed pretty good at the start - answering queries etc but have become progressively worse over the year. They often do not respond to email queries and when they do they don't answer the questions asked. They advised me to become VAT registered. Colleagues suggested this was not a good idea as my turnover is minimal. So in the end I've ended up claiming around £500 back on VAT and paying £500 VAT owed. The accountant then gave me the years invoice which included limited company account's 850+vat, self assessment 250+vat and vat returns - £500+vat.
For the last VAT return I was not convinced by the numbers they provided and so worked it out myself, emailed them the figured and they emailed back agreeing they'd made a mistake (around £400 out). Each VAT return maybe has around 10 items on it.
I want to move accountants and have contacted a new accountant. They seem more on the ball but understandably want a lump sum of £900 to calculate the company return for 17-18 which is outstanding. And then their monthly fee.
So in effect I'll be paying the old accountant their yearly fee, and the new accountant a lump sum for the first year returns and then the on going monthly fees.
My issue is paying the previous accountant the entire years LTD fee when they haven't done the first years returns (Sep 17- Sep 18).
I'm trying to find the original email stipulating their fees - the engagement letter says for "scope of work":
Analysis of business transactions, and allocation of expenses under different heads
Preparation & filing of statutory accounts and corporation tax return.
Routine corresponding with HMRC and companies house. Please note any
tax enquiries will be not included in the quotation provided and will be dealt
under separate engagement.
Any additional services as requested by client as agreed in advance.
I'm happy to pay them for the bits of advice they have given and doing the self assessment but it doesn't seem fair to pay the full fee when no ltd account's have been filed. Am I being unreasonable?
Also - I am pretty sure I never returned the engagement letters (I emailed back asking if I can email or post and they never replied). So they have nothing signed saying I agree to their terms.
I have considered doing the returns myself but the LTD should hopefully grow this year and so I would prefer to have an accountant.
Any thoughts appreciated
If you're not satisfied with the output from their work, that might lead to negotiation over the agreed fees. Not returning the terms docs is a red herring, as by having received the terms and continuing to use the service, you've arguably affirmed the contract by your actions.
I think the amount you've been quoted is about right (I've certainly paid a lot more from higher tiered firms).
I think the amount you've been quoted is about right (I've certainly paid a lot more from higher tiered firms).
My accountant for my IT Ltd company used to charge £50 per month, covering all company finances (including vat) and random email and phone questions.
He didn't so my self assessment but happily provided and explained what I needed to fill in easily myself.
Since I closed the company doen last year he has still answered the odd tax question for me foc.
He didn't so my self assessment but happily provided and explained what I needed to fill in easily myself.
Since I closed the company doen last year he has still answered the odd tax question for me foc.
I pay 645 quid including Vat.
I do my own salary runs and paye/nic/pension payments for employees.
I do my own Vat return
I do my own self assessment and my wife's
He gets a spreadsheet with tabs showing
OUT
IN
And copy of expences tabs
He gets a memory stick with pdfs of all business account statements, all invoices, and receipts over 50 quid.
The others are kept in a bag in a file.
We have never paid anything in cash so the accounts statements are a decent record.
What I get for my money.
Submission to HMRC, and companies house and a figure that we owe for corporation tax
Which doesn't exactly match my figure but is never out by much.
I do my own salary runs and paye/nic/pension payments for employees.
I do my own Vat return
I do my own self assessment and my wife's
He gets a spreadsheet with tabs showing
OUT
IN
And copy of expences tabs
He gets a memory stick with pdfs of all business account statements, all invoices, and receipts over 50 quid.
The others are kept in a bag in a file.
We have never paid anything in cash so the accounts statements are a decent record.
What I get for my money.
Submission to HMRC, and companies house and a figure that we owe for corporation tax
Which doesn't exactly match my figure but is never out by much.
Thanks for the reply. Ltd has one employee (me) and turnover is around 40k a year.
I suppose my main query is whether it is fair to expect a reduced fee - their fee includes accounts for the LTD and as they have not prepared or filed any accounts, it seems unfair to have to pay the whole thing.
I suppose my main query is whether it is fair to expect a reduced fee - their fee includes accounts for the LTD and as they have not prepared or filed any accounts, it seems unfair to have to pay the whole thing.
You are being ripped off.
The completion of annual accounts and submission of these accounts to Companies House and the accounts and the Corporation tax return to HMRC for a company your size should not exceed around £800 per annum - in my opinion.
De-register for VAT unless there is some massive imperative that makes it worthwhile for you.
The completion of annual accounts and submission of these accounts to Companies House and the accounts and the Corporation tax return to HMRC for a company your size should not exceed around £800 per annum - in my opinion.
De-register for VAT unless there is some massive imperative that makes it worthwhile for you.
Eric Mc said:
You are being ripped off.
The completion of annual accounts and submission of these accounts to Companies House and the accounts and the Corporation tax return to HMRC for a company your size should not exceed around £800 per annum - in my opinion.
De-register for VAT unless there is some massive imperative that makes it worthwhile for you.
As a contractor, It used to be worth registering for Vat on Flat rate if your client was vat registeted. I never had many costs that were Vatable because rather than stay in hotels I'd stay in someone's house. The completion of annual accounts and submission of these accounts to Companies House and the accounts and the Corporation tax return to HMRC for a company your size should not exceed around £800 per annum - in my opinion.
De-register for VAT unless there is some massive imperative that makes it worthwhile for you.
But change of contract means I'm going to be staying in hotels and I reckon the VAT element of that is worth jumping off the flat rate for.
I reckon it's worth an extra £1500 a year which will mean more profit except that it will be paid as more pension contributions.
How the hell did they make a mistake in the VAT with so few transactions?
I always did my own VAT returns as it's easy if you're organised and it forces you to look at how things are really going each quarter.
I paid about £650 for sole trader accounts, tax returns for me and my wife and any advice I needed through the year.
Being VAT registered was just about worth it for me due to fuel costs etc. and flat rate reduced that so it became marginal and eventually I de-registered as there was little chance of me reaching the threshold - although I did in the early days as a self employed analyst/programmer.
Being VAT registered does confer some gravitas to a sole trader without being a total PITA to do. Although rules are changing aren't they?
Mike
I always did my own VAT returns as it's easy if you're organised and it forces you to look at how things are really going each quarter.
I paid about £650 for sole trader accounts, tax returns for me and my wife and any advice I needed through the year.
Being VAT registered was just about worth it for me due to fuel costs etc. and flat rate reduced that so it became marginal and eventually I de-registered as there was little chance of me reaching the threshold - although I did in the early days as a self employed analyst/programmer.
Being VAT registered does confer some gravitas to a sole trader without being a total PITA to do. Although rules are changing aren't they?
Mike
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