Is this a scam?

[MOBB]

Trade flooring company that I'm currently interim FC of;

- customer places a few orders in a branch £1.5k worth
- customer accidentally sends a faster payment of £5k to us - appears on bank statement
- oops can I have a refund of £3.5k please

So I smell a duck......................

However;

- branch rings the customers bank (using google phone number) - yes, sorry about that, new cashier made an error
- a fitter that we know is ok is collecting the goods to fit them at a premises tomorrow

As it stands I'm not refunding the £3.5k, and the fitters have collected the goods to fit them tomorrow

Initially I thought the scam was hacked online banking, non existent premises, fitters turn up, no we didnt order a carpet. And we have refunded the £3.5k (edit, we haven’t)

However the call to their bank has thrown me..................

Whaddya reckon?

Edited by MOBB on Thursday 29th August 16:44

[Monkeylegend]

MOBB said:

Trade flooring company that I'm currently interim FC of;

- customer places a few orders in a branch £1.5k worth
- customer accidentally sends a faster payment of £5k to us - appears on bank statement
- oops can I have a refund of £3.5k please

So I smell a duck......................

However;

- branch rings the customers bank (using google phone number) - yes, sorry about that, new cashier made an error
- a fitter that we know is ok is collecting the goods to fit them at a premises tomorrow

As it stands I'm not refunding the £3.5k, and the fitters have collected the goods to fit them tomorrow

Initially I thought the scam was hacked online banking, non existent premises, fitters turn up, no we didnt order a carpet. And we have refunded the £3.5k

However the call to their bank has thrown me..................

Whaddya reckon?

So have you refunded the £3.5k or not?

[untakenname]

Think it's a scam, if the new cashier made the error then ask the bank to refund them and then you'll refund the bank after three months.

[MOBB]

Monkeylegend said:

MOBB said:

Trade flooring company that I'm currently interim FC of;

- customer places a few orders in a branch £1.5k worth
- customer accidentally sends a faster payment of £5k to us - appears on bank statement
- oops can I have a refund of £3.5k please

So I smell a duck......................

However;

- branch rings the customers bank (using google phone number) - yes, sorry about that, new cashier made an error
- a fitter that we know is ok is collecting the goods to fit them at a premises tomorrow

As it stands I'm not refunding the £3.5k, and the fitters have collected the goods to fit them tomorrow

Initially I thought the scam was hacked online banking, non existent premises, fitters turn up, no we didnt order a carpet. And we have refunded the £3.5k

However the call to their bank has thrown me..................

Whaddya reckon?

So have you refunded the £3.5k or not?

Nope, edited my post as it was misleading :-)

Edited by MOBB on Thursday 29th August 16:45

[jammy-git]

untakenname said:

Think it's a scam, if the new cashier made the error then ask the bank to refund them and then you'll refund the bank after three months.

I'd agree with this. The bank should refund their customer and reverse the payment. The customer should make another payment to you for the correct amount.

[The Mad Monk]

Monkeylegend said:

So have you refunded the £3.5k or not?

quote:-

"And we have refunded the £3.5k (edit, we haven’t)"

[Monkeylegend]

The Mad Monk said:

Monkeylegend said:

So have you refunded the £3.5k or not?

quote:-

"And we have refunded the £3.5k (edit, we haven’t)"

OP edited his post after I asked the question as it said they had refused to refund and had refunded.

I quoted his original post pre edit

[Countdown]

jammy-git said:

I'd agree with this. The bank should refund their customer and reverse the payment. The customer should make another payment to you for the correct amount.

Bank won’t be able to reverse the payment if it was via FP or CHAPS.

[MOBB]

That’s what I thought, but google seems to suggest if it’s a fraudulent payment it can be refunded.

If someone hacked your online banking, made a faster payment, could that be refunded when the victim discovers it?

[Flooble]

I think you need to take Friday off - unfortunately no-one else is available to authorise a refund.

Then see the reaction. Scammers will probably react differently to a real firm - although no-one is going to be happy at being down 3.5K.

But as others have said, if the bank had made the mistake you would expect the bank to resolve it or at the very least be the ones to contact you and not dump it on their customer to sort out. It still smells wrong to me, the old "overpaid and can I have a refund" is such a classic scam.

[MOBB]

As it happens I don’t work Fridays :-)

The team will be advising that the refund has to go through our internal processes etc etc

I’ll report back!

[mylesmcd]

Well?

I think, as per previous.... Bank error, bank refund, then you return after 3 months....

[bad company]

Op!!!!!

[MOBB]

:-)

After being assured by our bank that it was safe to refund (in writing) and speaking to the paying bank manager, who confirmed it was a genuine error, we refunded the overpayment.

This one walked like a duck but wasn't a duck!

[mylesmcd]

MOBB said:

:-)

After being assured by our bank that it was safe to refund (in writing) and speaking to the paying bank manager, who confirmed it was a genuine error, we refunded the overpayment.

This one walked like a duck but wasn't a duck!

It is my biggest fear. I sell cars in Europe and we transfer 10's k each transaction.

Glad it was sorted anyway!

[NorthDave]

MOBB said:

That’s what I thought, but google seems to suggest if it’s a fraudulent payment it can be refunded.

If someone hacked your online banking, made a faster payment, could that be refunded when the victim discovers it?

I dont believe that they can refund a FP or CHAPS payment in any circumstances. I'd be very interested if anyone disagrees with this as this is the way we get paid at work.

[jammy-git]

From what I understand any payment can be reversed, depending on why and how far along the payment has got. If it's suspected fraudulent then I believe it can be recalled for quite some days after the payment has been made: http://cardealermagazine.co.uk/forum/topic/5866-fa...

[NorthDave]

jammy-git said:

From what I understand any payment can be reversed, depending on why and how far along the payment has got. If it's suspected fraudulent then I believe it can be recalled for quite some days after the payment has been made: http://cardealermagazine.co.uk/forum/topic/5866-fa...

I appreciate that the forum in that link says it can be reversed but a quick Google has a lot of reputable sources (eg fasterpayments.org.uk who appear to run the scheme) saying it can't.

I'm very keen to understand this as we take a lot of payments through the scheme and I understood there to be zero risk once the payment was showing.

Next time I get a transfer I will phone the bank and check. Ironically I have a payment due this weekend from Nigeria! Assuming it arrives I will check on Monday with the bank and update the thread.

[jammy-git]

I think I remember speaking to my bank who said that a transfer can only be reversed if it's fraudulent. I'm pretty sure it's technically possible and it's a matter of policy that stops banks doing it or admitting to it.

[Countdown]

jammy-git said:

From what I understand any payment can be reversed, depending on why and how far along the payment has got. If it's suspected fraudulent then I believe it can be recalled for quite some days after the payment has been made: http://cardealermagazine.co.uk/forum/topic/5866-fa...

Quite often it’s not being “reversed”, it’s being stopped/intercepted before it hits the recipient bank account. Once it’s in your account it can really only be taken out (without your consent) if both banks are sure that it’s the result of a fraudulent transaction. We once paid £500k to a retired GP - thankfully he agreed to refund it, however if he hadn’t the only way we could have got the money back was to take him to Court.

With BACS you’ve got 2 days, with CHAPS you’ve got until the end of the day, and with FPS you’ve got however long it takes for the bank to process the instruction (minutes in some cases).