Shuting down for Corona

[Dixy]

As everything grinds to a halt what are the legal implications regarding staff being laid off. BA are talking about sending half their staff home. What are people entitled to.

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

I guess we are in unchartered times. I'd have a grown up conversation with staff and make a plan.

Everybody loses irrespective of legal rights.

[HoHoHo]

Dixy said:

As everything grinds to a halt what are the legal implications regarding staff being laid off. BA are talking about sending half their staff home. What are people entitled to.

I’m not sure about staff being laid off, terms apply I guess?

For clarity it’s Norwegian who are looking at laying off half of their 11,000 staff, not BA

[Dixy]

I have heard today that an airline has told 70 % of their staff that they can either take 2 months unpaid leave or have immediate redundancy.
Is it legal, should the company care.

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

Probably falls in the category of "help us keep the company alive and maybe you'll have a job to come back to"

[HoHoHo]

Dixy said:

I have heard today that an airline has told 70 % of their staff that they can either take 2 months unpaid leave or have immediate redundancy.
Is it legal, should the company care.

Depends entirely on your contract

I have today altered the hours of one employee, it's in my terms so not a problem.

[jammy-git]

Dixy said:

I have heard today that an airline has told 70 % of their staff that they can either take 2 months unpaid leave or have immediate redundancy.
Is it legal, should the company care.

Of course you can make a role redundant - you just can't rehire for that role within 6 months. Which, in the airline industry, I don't think there's any chance of anyway.

[ClaphamGT3]

jammy-git said:

Dixy said:

I have heard today that an airline has told 70 % of their staff that they can either take 2 months unpaid leave or have immediate redundancy.
Is it legal, should the company care.

Of course you can make a role redundant - you just can't rehire for that role within 6 months. Which, in the airline industry, I don't think there's any chance of anyway.

Indeed. I suspect that we have seen the last of the cheap flight. Post Covid will be too much of a golden opportunity for governments to legislate to disincentivise air travel to miss

[otherman]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

Probably falls in the category of "help us keep the company alive and maybe you'll have a job to come back to"

Too many folks are thinking the country needs to bail them out. Right now, we need to bail the country out. Take a hit then come back out blinking in the sun to try and re-start it.

Society will be different after this, for better or worse. It'll be the subject of studies for centuries to come.

[ClaphamGT3]

otherman said:

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

Probably falls in the category of "help us keep the company alive and maybe you'll have a job to come back to"

Too many folks are thinking the country needs to bail them out. Right now, we need to bail the country out. Take a hit then come back out blinking in the sun to try and re-start it.

Society will be different after this, for better or worse. It'll be the subject of studies for centuries to come.

Agree with the point about taking personal responsibility and, also, that things will irrevocably change because of this but it’s simplistic to suggest that the Govt shouldn’t be intervening. I’m the biggest fan of small Government you’ll ever find, but If there was ever a time where Govt does need to be very interventionist, it’s now

[jammy-git]

otherman said:

Too many folks are thinking the country needs to bail them out. Right now, we need to bail the country out. Take a hit then come back out blinking in the sun to try and re-start it.

Society will be different after this, for better or worse. It'll be the subject of studies for centuries to come.

A little help from the government now will makes things much easier to restart when the time comes.

[chrispmartha]

otherman said:

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

Probably falls in the category of "help us keep the company alive and maybe you'll have a job to come back to"

Too many folks are thinking the country needs to bail them out. Right now, we need to bail the country out. Take a hit then come back out blinking in the sun to try and re-start it.

Society will be different after this, for better or worse. It'll be the subject of studies for centuries to come.

‘Take a hit’ is very easy to write on a forum, much more devastating and difficult in real life. The Government need to step up and the wishy washy response yesterday will devastate a lot of businesses

[leef44]

Logistically, any government help would be too late for small businesses.

If you are a small business, let's say a take-away or a restaurant with 5 to 10 staff.
You have just ordered your week's worth of perishables.
After yesterday's announcement, overnight all your business is gone.
All your perishables are wasted.
You give staff notice immediately with enough cash reserve to pay them until their notice is up.
You apply for business rate relief and a delay in VAT payments.
You ask your landlord for relief/discount on rent.
Eventually you may have to close down.
The interest relief is off no significance since your bank loan does not instantly pass on to you.
Any Government emergency subsidence will be paid to national banks and take several months for you to apply for, by which time you are out of business.

[chrispmartha]

leef44 said:

Logistically, any government help would be too late for small businesses.

If you are a small business, let's say a take-away or a restaurant with 5 to 10 staff.
You have just ordered your week's worth of perishables.
After yesterday's announcement, overnight all your business is gone.
All your perishables are wasted.
You give staff notice immediately with enough cash reserve to pay them until their notice is up.
You apply for business rate relief and a delay in VAT payments.
You ask your landlord for relief/discount on rent.
Eventually you may have to close down.
The interest relief is off no significance since your bank loan does not instantly pass on to you.
Any Government emergency subsidence will be paid to national banks and take several months for you to apply for, by which time you are out of business.

If they had made not going to theatres restaurants pubs etc actual policy, many of those businesses could have claimed on their insurance , that could have saved businesses and jobs

[leef44]

chrispmartha said:

If they had made not going to theatres restaurants pubs etc actual policy, many of those businesses could have claimed on their insurance , that could have saved businesses and jobs

Does business insurance cover for Government actions? Or would they be able to wriggle out of it as an exclusion clause like "Act of God" or "Force of nature" like volcanoes and floods. The Government action might not be from nature but insurers could spend millions in court challenging that the virus is a cause of nature.

[AMST09]

leef44 said:

Does business insurance cover for Government actions? Or would they be able to wriggle out of it as an exclusion clause like "Act of God" or "Force of nature" like volcanoes and floods. The Government action might not be from nature but insurers could spend millions in court challenging that the virus is a cause of nature.

Our policy specifically excludes business disruption it’s an additional insurance you have to take out, how many people have or even know about it?

[leef44]

AMST09 said:

leef44 said:

Does business insurance cover for Government actions? Or would they be able to wriggle out of it as an exclusion clause like "Act of God" or "Force of nature" like volcanoes and floods. The Government action might not be from nature but insurers could spend millions in court challenging that the virus is a cause of nature.

Our policy specifically excludes business disruption it’s an additional insurance you have to take out, how many people have or even know about it?

Thanks for clarifying. This is what I suspected.
It's just like the floods. People used to think that insurance would cover them. Now it is standard practice that many insurances don't cover for floods and premiums are too high to cover that risk.

[Frimley111R]

Dixy said:

I have heard today that an airline has told 70 % of their staff that they can either take 2 months unpaid leave or have immediate redundancy.
Is it legal, should the company care.

My daughter works for Virgin and that's what she's been told. I don't think this is that new to this industry either

[Pot Bellied Fool]

AMST09 said:

leef44 said:

Does business insurance cover for Government actions? Or would they be able to wriggle out of it as an exclusion clause like "Act of God" or "Force of nature" like volcanoes and floods. The Government action might not be from nature but insurers could spend millions in court challenging that the virus is a cause of nature.

Our policy specifically excludes business disruption it’s an additional insurance you have to take out, how many people have or even know about it?

Chatting to my broker about remote working today & mentioned business continuity cover, assuming their phones would be ringing off the hook.

Nope. Not covered in 99.9% of cases she said. Businesses continuity is usually linked to building cover/issues such as fire, flood, cyber attack etc but not to human illness or pandemics.

Keyman cover might kick in if management team individuals keep over but don't think that many businesses have that...

[Grandad Gaz]

otherman said:

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

Probably falls in the category of "help us keep the company alive and maybe you'll have a job to come back to"

Too many folks are thinking the country needs to bail them out. Right now, we need to bail the country out. Take a hit then come back out blinking in the sun to try and re-start it.

Society will be different after this, for better or worse. It'll be the subject of studies for centuries to come.

Exactly, the problem is there are too many people who are in debt (sorry, credit) up to their eyeballs. Perhaps when this is over they may think twice about that new car on PCP and instead put the money aside for a rainy day.