SEO - a question on fees for those in that business
Discussion
Would a good seo person / firm take on a contract where a big chunk of the remuneration was based on a specific measure of performance: the increase in the percentage of total site traffic that comes from organic search?
In initial conversations, I have only encountered the 'rent seeking' fee model (i.e. you pay us £x per month for us to do some stuff that may or may not deliver any specific results). The reticence to link reward to results is marked and offputting.
If a PHer that works in this field wants more specific details of a project, please DM me, but I am interested in hearing views on the general concept of linking pay to results in the SEO field.
In initial conversations, I have only encountered the 'rent seeking' fee model (i.e. you pay us £x per month for us to do some stuff that may or may not deliver any specific results). The reticence to link reward to results is marked and offputting.
If a PHer that works in this field wants more specific details of a project, please DM me, but I am interested in hearing views on the general concept of linking pay to results in the SEO field.
Speaking as an SEO, I think there are too many outside factors to any SEO campaign that make it hard to base fees on performance (certainly not a high percentage). Anyone offering promises of specific ranking positions should be avoided. It's really complex, I'm several groups with other agency owners and we all have differing models and terms. So it's really important to shop around a bit.
I've worked on SEO campaigns for leading recruitment sites and got loads of success, for Google to wade into that market with Google Jobs, the same has happened with hotels, flights and more, so I'd personally be wary of offering something that, ultimately I could not have some influence over. There are too many changes happening inside SEO and today, I think most businesses need to think of it as a continual investment rather than a one of cost to get ranked.
I've worked on SEO campaigns for leading recruitment sites and got loads of success, for Google to wade into that market with Google Jobs, the same has happened with hotels, flights and more, so I'd personally be wary of offering something that, ultimately I could not have some influence over. There are too many changes happening inside SEO and today, I think most businesses need to think of it as a continual investment rather than a one of cost to get ranked.
JPJPJP said:
Would a good seo person / firm take on a contract where a big chunk of the remuneration was based on a specific measure of performance: the increase in the percentage of total site traffic that comes from organic search?
In initial conversations, I have only encountered the 'rent seeking' fee model (i.e. you pay us £x per month for us to do some stuff that may or may not deliver any specific results). The reticence to link reward to results is marked and offputting.
If a PHer that works in this field wants more specific details of a project, please DM me, but I am interested in hearing views on the general concept of linking pay to results in the SEO field.
No I don’t think they/we would!! Far too many factors outside your control that can happen causing a negative affect on SERPS and therefore trafficIn initial conversations, I have only encountered the 'rent seeking' fee model (i.e. you pay us £x per month for us to do some stuff that may or may not deliver any specific results). The reticence to link reward to results is marked and offputting.
If a PHer that works in this field wants more specific details of a project, please DM me, but I am interested in hearing views on the general concept of linking pay to results in the SEO field.
As previously said there are too many factors to be able to offer a performance based offer, but equally I see it from your side.
To achieve success in any competitive seo market is a difficult task. It requires resolving technical issues with your site, a creating customer / solution matrix for the basis of your content plan, creating and publishing content including ebook books to achieve sign ups and auto email res-ponders etc. Each stage has its own issues, for example great content can take 2 weeks to research, create and publish. If you didn't assist in a timely manner you would be damaging the SEO company's ability to hit revenue targets - are you then responsible for their missed fees.Often SEO companies do need client support with content.
It's not so much that SEO is an unknown, but rather it take a huge effort and therefore cost. Most companies like the idea of seo, but not the cost, so they comprise and select a lower cost provider, who really knows for the low cost fee they cannot achieve results. The secondary issue is the time span required to achieve results, it takes a while.
Often companies give up on SEO, again too many SEO's cannot achieve results, Client opt to go for Pay Per Click with Google Ads and an agency such as mine, but in truth most companies do need an SEO, ideally it should generate around 30% of revenue - its just takes a long time, often years to achieve.
In the current climate, you might be able to pause SEO activities and focus on pay per click with more instant results in hours or days.
To achieve success in any competitive seo market is a difficult task. It requires resolving technical issues with your site, a creating customer / solution matrix for the basis of your content plan, creating and publishing content including ebook books to achieve sign ups and auto email res-ponders etc. Each stage has its own issues, for example great content can take 2 weeks to research, create and publish. If you didn't assist in a timely manner you would be damaging the SEO company's ability to hit revenue targets - are you then responsible for their missed fees.Often SEO companies do need client support with content.
It's not so much that SEO is an unknown, but rather it take a huge effort and therefore cost. Most companies like the idea of seo, but not the cost, so they comprise and select a lower cost provider, who really knows for the low cost fee they cannot achieve results. The secondary issue is the time span required to achieve results, it takes a while.
Often companies give up on SEO, again too many SEO's cannot achieve results, Client opt to go for Pay Per Click with Google Ads and an agency such as mine, but in truth most companies do need an SEO, ideally it should generate around 30% of revenue - its just takes a long time, often years to achieve.
In the current climate, you might be able to pause SEO activities and focus on pay per click with more instant results in hours or days.
Good points, thanks all
Surely though SEO people, like others, would like the opportunity to earn more by delivering results rather than saying this months work for that client is only worth £2k, no matter what benefit the client gets from it
I pay sales people commission, I pay marketing people decent bonus on category growth / profit, I pay procurement on gross margin, but SEO Flat rate £/hr. it seems wrong to me
Otherwise the link between £/hr is never broken and scaling up stays hard
Surely though SEO people, like others, would like the opportunity to earn more by delivering results rather than saying this months work for that client is only worth £2k, no matter what benefit the client gets from it
I pay sales people commission, I pay marketing people decent bonus on category growth / profit, I pay procurement on gross margin, but SEO Flat rate £/hr. it seems wrong to me
Otherwise the link between £/hr is never broken and scaling up stays hard
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 7th April 21:42
JPJPJP said:
Surely though SEO people, like others, would like the opportunity to earn more by delivering results rather than saying this months work for that client is only worth £2k, no matter what benefit the client gets from it
I used to pay our SEO guy a flat rate and then a bonus for X leads generated over a certain point. He preferred that and actually suggested it. Of course, if your site is poorly SEO'd you can end up paying them quite a bit though, so it does need thinking about and working out properlyEdited by JPJPJP on Tuesday 7th April 21:42
SEO and conversions are two separate elements and often fall under two different disciplines, with the latter sometimes coming under UX and the former also including search engine marketing (SEM).
SEO fees range from a grand or so for a one-off audit with recommendations for improvement to similar again for implementation (if they can access relevant parts of your website). Many will be on a retainer to continue to make SEO updates and optimise over time. As SEO isn't a switch but a battle for dominance it's an activity to revisit frequently.
Things you want to consider are:
Will the SEO specialist focus on best practise and simple upgrades of your website to achieve a baseline SEO performance? Activities like basic keyword research on things like Google Trends and changing image alt text to focus on them would be at this stage.
Might they do more advanced SERP or ranking checks to see how you compare to competitors? Might they write blogs and website copy to help you rank for high-traffic and relevant keywords?
Will they be able to make significant changes to your website to increase conversions? Are you simply driving people to a form on your website who are ready to buy or are you looking for softer leads that you might be able to reach out to?
Why are you only looking at SEO? Why not increase social media, email marketing and wider SEM on Google Ads to increase traffic and leads too?
You could spend anything from a hundred quid a month to hundreds of thousands a month on SEO. The answer lies in your end goal and the investment you'd need to make to achieve that.
SEO fees range from a grand or so for a one-off audit with recommendations for improvement to similar again for implementation (if they can access relevant parts of your website). Many will be on a retainer to continue to make SEO updates and optimise over time. As SEO isn't a switch but a battle for dominance it's an activity to revisit frequently.
Things you want to consider are:
Will the SEO specialist focus on best practise and simple upgrades of your website to achieve a baseline SEO performance? Activities like basic keyword research on things like Google Trends and changing image alt text to focus on them would be at this stage.
Might they do more advanced SERP or ranking checks to see how you compare to competitors? Might they write blogs and website copy to help you rank for high-traffic and relevant keywords?
Will they be able to make significant changes to your website to increase conversions? Are you simply driving people to a form on your website who are ready to buy or are you looking for softer leads that you might be able to reach out to?
Why are you only looking at SEO? Why not increase social media, email marketing and wider SEM on Google Ads to increase traffic and leads too?
You could spend anything from a hundred quid a month to hundreds of thousands a month on SEO. The answer lies in your end goal and the investment you'd need to make to achieve that.
If you are serious about your business and it having any kind of longevity, SEO should be the last thing on your marketing checklist. Relying on a sizeable chunk of your revenue coming from the SERPS is a recipe for disaster. As much as some of these so called SEO marketeers talk it up, you are at the mercy of something they can’t control, Google. You can spend a fortune on SEO, have it deliver results in the short term, then have all that traffic disappear almost overnight when Google tweaks their algorithms.
SEO is for the birds and a nice earner for agencies. If you want to attract organic traffic, just create great content that has real value, and Google will recognise that. And your rankings will improve naturally as a result. You don’t need an agency for that, it should be something you are doing to attract customers anyway.
Don’t believe the hype from the agencies, it’s easy money for them and always comes with the caveat that they can’t control Google. So, even if it works for a while, which it often doesn’t, but when it inevitably fails the agency will tell you two things. Number one, it’s down to Google and it wasn’t their fault, and two, to double down on SEO to get back to where you were.
Put whatever budget you have in mind for SEO into something that works, and is a reliable source of quality traffic. Whether that’s employing a copywriter and improving your content, paid search, paid social or affiliates.
SEO is for the birds and a nice earner for agencies. If you want to attract organic traffic, just create great content that has real value, and Google will recognise that. And your rankings will improve naturally as a result. You don’t need an agency for that, it should be something you are doing to attract customers anyway.
Don’t believe the hype from the agencies, it’s easy money for them and always comes with the caveat that they can’t control Google. So, even if it works for a while, which it often doesn’t, but when it inevitably fails the agency will tell you two things. Number one, it’s down to Google and it wasn’t their fault, and two, to double down on SEO to get back to where you were.
Put whatever budget you have in mind for SEO into something that works, and is a reliable source of quality traffic. Whether that’s employing a copywriter and improving your content, paid search, paid social or affiliates.
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