Poor IT reliability, do i employ someone?
Discussion
Ok, this ones a bit long winded, so apologies in advance.
Currently we have a Magento based website, An ERP system and an office 365 set up.
All are riddled with problems.
Office 365, one drive locks up repeatedly, and outlook search function doesnt work. Seemingly unfixable. Other random faults occur, been through 2 PC's and a laptop in 2 years despite all being new 2 years ago. Currently got an IT support contract.
Magento. Relatively new. Managed for me by a company who used to do our old one. Sees to have various strange bugs. Generally helpful but as fast as the list is fixed, more stuff crops up.
ERP system. Main issue. Again recent. Clearly, we didnt do enough due diligence on this. Many claims about its capabilities were made, many of which turn out not to be true. Its certainly not up to the task of running a small warehouse type business. And it has several fundamental failings such that we might need to walk away and return to spreadsheet, paper and pen. Company doesnt seem to be very interested in sorting things out. As i say, its certainly partly our fault we got into this mess.
However, the real issue is the level of reliability of all of them, Few days go by when im not putting a ticket in for something, or wasting valuable time managing round something error or other, mostly the ERP system.
Just managing the number of issues, as well as having to manage around the non-working things is becoming very time consuming, to the detriment of the rest of the business.
I will happily admit i dont understand almost anything about IT other than how to use the programs. In the same way my mother uses her car, but wouldnt know where to start if it broke down.
In mind, the level of reliability is hopeless. But i dont have any benchmark to judge this against. Is this normal? Anecdotally, lots of businesses seem to have IT problems.
I cannot continue to invest this level of time into this, nor am i achieving any real progress in reducing the problems, so im thinking, maybe i should employ someone who does understand to manage them and / or do it themselves.
But how do you do this when i dont understand any of it? Has anyone done this? Not every business owner can be an IT geek surely?
So the 2 questions are:
1, is it realistic to expect IT systems to work for months rather than days without failing or developing faults?
2, Who has taken a similar decision to employ someone (as distinct to contracting out) to do it rather than do it themselves?
Currently we have a Magento based website, An ERP system and an office 365 set up.
All are riddled with problems.
Office 365, one drive locks up repeatedly, and outlook search function doesnt work. Seemingly unfixable. Other random faults occur, been through 2 PC's and a laptop in 2 years despite all being new 2 years ago. Currently got an IT support contract.
Magento. Relatively new. Managed for me by a company who used to do our old one. Sees to have various strange bugs. Generally helpful but as fast as the list is fixed, more stuff crops up.
ERP system. Main issue. Again recent. Clearly, we didnt do enough due diligence on this. Many claims about its capabilities were made, many of which turn out not to be true. Its certainly not up to the task of running a small warehouse type business. And it has several fundamental failings such that we might need to walk away and return to spreadsheet, paper and pen. Company doesnt seem to be very interested in sorting things out. As i say, its certainly partly our fault we got into this mess.
However, the real issue is the level of reliability of all of them, Few days go by when im not putting a ticket in for something, or wasting valuable time managing round something error or other, mostly the ERP system.
Just managing the number of issues, as well as having to manage around the non-working things is becoming very time consuming, to the detriment of the rest of the business.
I will happily admit i dont understand almost anything about IT other than how to use the programs. In the same way my mother uses her car, but wouldnt know where to start if it broke down.
In mind, the level of reliability is hopeless. But i dont have any benchmark to judge this against. Is this normal? Anecdotally, lots of businesses seem to have IT problems.
I cannot continue to invest this level of time into this, nor am i achieving any real progress in reducing the problems, so im thinking, maybe i should employ someone who does understand to manage them and / or do it themselves.
But how do you do this when i dont understand any of it? Has anyone done this? Not every business owner can be an IT geek surely?
So the 2 questions are:
1, is it realistic to expect IT systems to work for months rather than days without failing or developing faults?
2, Who has taken a similar decision to employ someone (as distinct to contracting out) to do it rather than do it themselves?
Dont seperate IT from your business, its part of your business, without IT your business probably couldnt exist.
Nobody ever fully understands IT, even IT firms themselves so dont contract it out, IT is full of contractors and consultants that just blag it and make a lot of money out of nothing because of this. Get someone internal to look after it, spend some time understanding the business pain and IT needs and learning the quirks of your systems and how to improve reliability.
Nobody ever fully understands IT, even IT firms themselves so dont contract it out, IT is full of contractors and consultants that just blag it and make a lot of money out of nothing because of this. Get someone internal to look after it, spend some time understanding the business pain and IT needs and learning the quirks of your systems and how to improve reliability.
davebem said:
Dont seperate IT from your business, its part of your business, without IT your business probably couldnt exist.
Nobody ever fully understands IT, even IT firms themselves so dont contract it out, IT is full of contractors and consultants that just blag it and make a lot of money out of nothing because of this. Get someone internal to look after it, spend some time understanding the business pain and IT needs and learning the quirks of your systems and how to improve reliability.
I don't disagree with the sentiment here but on the other hand a good specialist will know more about their product(s) than a jack of all trades.Nobody ever fully understands IT, even IT firms themselves so dont contract it out, IT is full of contractors and consultants that just blag it and make a lot of money out of nothing because of this. Get someone internal to look after it, spend some time understanding the business pain and IT needs and learning the quirks of your systems and how to improve reliability.
A good in house IT chap(ess) who understands the business and what the IT needs and opportunities are will pay dividends. This person should also have a good idea about the products/technologies you use and be able to deal with the day to day, but they will need recourse to third party expertise to ensure you get real experts when you need them.
The other skill your in-house chap needs is the ability to root out "consultants" who aren't worthy of the title.
What's the size of your business in terms of employees?
Are you on Magento 1 or 2? Regardless Magento is a buggy platform even without any extensions. Hence why there are non-stop "critical patches".
To support Magento you'd need someone who knows what they are doing, i.e. a Magento partner. Internal IT could triage the issue but you need an expert.
O365 - Shouldn't have any locks but again this depends on your onsite infra. What is actually locking?
ERP - Is this on-prem? What ERP is this? I'm guessing there is some kind of integration with Magento? Do you have a WMS?
Are you on Magento 1 or 2? Regardless Magento is a buggy platform even without any extensions. Hence why there are non-stop "critical patches".
To support Magento you'd need someone who knows what they are doing, i.e. a Magento partner. Internal IT could triage the issue but you need an expert.
O365 - Shouldn't have any locks but again this depends on your onsite infra. What is actually locking?
ERP - Is this on-prem? What ERP is this? I'm guessing there is some kind of integration with Magento? Do you have a WMS?
davebem said:
Dont seperate IT from your business, its part of your business, without IT your business probably couldnt exist.
Nobody ever fully understands IT, even IT firms themselves so dont contract it out, IT is full of contractors and consultants that just blag it and make a lot of money out of nothing because of this. Get someone internal to look after it, spend some time understanding the business pain and IT needs and learning the quirks of your systems and how to improve reliability.
I dont have anyone internal with enough knowledge to look after it. Thats the issue.Nobody ever fully understands IT, even IT firms themselves so dont contract it out, IT is full of contractors and consultants that just blag it and make a lot of money out of nothing because of this. Get someone internal to look after it, spend some time understanding the business pain and IT needs and learning the quirks of your systems and how to improve reliability.
Bull Fullbright said:
So the 2 questions are:
1, is it realistic to expect IT systems to work for months rather than days without failing or developing faults?
2, Who has taken a similar decision to employ someone (as distinct to contracting out) to do it rather than do it themselves?
1. Maybe. Depends. If set up correctly and managed correctly your chances are higher.1, is it realistic to expect IT systems to work for months rather than days without failing or developing faults?
2, Who has taken a similar decision to employ someone (as distinct to contracting out) to do it rather than do it themselves?
2. Not answering the question, but given your admitted lack of knowledge in this area wouldn't you rather have a trusted advisor in-house rather than from a vendor trying to sell your solutions?
How big is your company? How many IT/computer users? How reliant are you on the technology? What does a failure/hiccup/outage cost you?
Perhaps a halfway house would be to engage a third party as an advisory... effectively helping you develop your technology strategy and helping you make the right decisions and using their expertise to ensure your existing vendors deliver against existing contracts.
anxious_ant said:
What's the size of your business in terms of employees?
Are you on Magento 1 or 2? Regardless Magento is a buggy platform even without any extensions. Hence why there are non-stop "critical patches".
To support Magento you'd need someone who knows what they are doing, i.e. a Magento partner. Internal IT could triage the issue but you need an expert.
O365 - Shouldn't have any locks but again this depends on your onsite infra. What is actually locking?
ERP - Is this on-prem? What ERP is this? I'm guessing there is some kind of integration with Magento? Do you have a WMS?
3 people 1.7 mil turnover.Are you on Magento 1 or 2? Regardless Magento is a buggy platform even without any extensions. Hence why there are non-stop "critical patches".
To support Magento you'd need someone who knows what they are doing, i.e. a Magento partner. Internal IT could triage the issue but you need an expert.
O365 - Shouldn't have any locks but again this depends on your onsite infra. What is actually locking?
ERP - Is this on-prem? What ERP is this? I'm guessing there is some kind of integration with Magento? Do you have a WMS?
Magento 2. So what you are saying is Magento is s
t and i should have chosen something else.O365. Ive no idea. Just keeps stopping. Either i or IT chaps restart it. But thats not fixing it.
Sadly i dont know what either on-prem or WMS is. Yes, ERP and magento interface. Well, supposed too. At this stage prob better not to say which ERP. I dont need to make the situation worse with their lack of interest. Prob dont read this, but you never know.
UpTheIron said:
Bull Fullbright said:
So the 2 questions are:
1, is it realistic to expect IT systems to work for months rather than days without failing or developing faults?
2, Who has taken a similar decision to employ someone (as distinct to contracting out) to do it rather than do it themselves?
1. Maybe. Depends. If set up correctly and managed correctly your chances are higher.1, is it realistic to expect IT systems to work for months rather than days without failing or developing faults?
2, Who has taken a similar decision to employ someone (as distinct to contracting out) to do it rather than do it themselves?
2. Not answering the question, but given your admitted lack of knowledge in this area wouldn't you rather have a trusted advisor in-house rather than from a vendor trying to sell your solutions?
How big is your company? How many IT/computer users? How reliant are you on the technology? What does a failure/hiccup/outage cost you?
Perhaps a halfway house would be to engage a third party as an advisory... effectively helping you develop your technology strategy and helping you make the right decisions and using their expertise to ensure your existing vendors deliver against existing contracts.
See other reply. Very reliant. Most failures are just wasted time rather than hard cash, though the current ERP stock output errors are unquestionanbly costing me sales.
Third party advisor comes with the same problem as recruitment. I couldnt spot a good one from a bad one.
There will be more opinions in this than there are stars in the heavens, but in my experience outsourcing can be successful, but I've never seen it succeed if there isn't someone in the client organisation with a good understanding of IT that can communicate, liaise, and manage the outsourcers.
Without that control and oversight you'll get the problems you're getting, If you're lucky. If you're unlucky they'll take you to the cleaners.
If it was me, and it has been on several occasions, I'd look at getting an IT body that is capable of managing the outsourcers and also has a strong understanding of IT in general so can spot bullst. If they can do some stuff themselves that would be a bonus in my view.
Without that control and oversight you'll get the problems you're getting, If you're lucky. If you're unlucky they'll take you to the cleaners.
If it was me, and it has been on several occasions, I'd look at getting an IT body that is capable of managing the outsourcers and also has a strong understanding of IT in general so can spot bulls
t. If they can do some stuff themselves that would be a bonus in my view.Bull Fullbright said:
3 people 1.7 mil turnover.
Magento 2. So what you are saying is Magento is st and i should have chosen something else.
O365. Ive no idea. Just keeps stopping. Either i or IT chaps restart it. But thats not fixing it.
Sadly i dont know what either on-prem or WMS is. Yes, ERP and magento interface. Well, supposed too. At this stage prob better not to say which ERP. I dont need to make the situation worse with their lack of interest. Prob dont read this, but you never know.
Well M2 was suppose to be this all singing all dancing upgrade but from my previous experience it's been plagued with bugs. However the developers are quick to fix it. For a company running M2 with extensions its a bit painful going through UAT (testing) phase each time this happens.Magento 2. So what you are saying is Magento is s
t and i should have chosen something else.O365. Ive no idea. Just keeps stopping. Either i or IT chaps restart it. But thats not fixing it.
Sadly i dont know what either on-prem or WMS is. Yes, ERP and magento interface. Well, supposed too. At this stage prob better not to say which ERP. I dont need to make the situation worse with their lack of interest. Prob dont read this, but you never know.
Personall I don't think it's worth employing internal IT support for company of 3 people. You'd incur more costs and overheads compared with going with an IT partner. What you need is to look around for any decent local IT support partners. SLAs is an important thing to look out for here. This is basically how long it takes for them to respond to tickets. There are different SLAs for severity of the incident. You might also want ot consider any out of hours support if required. Some partners are also willing to let you speak to references to get a feel of what to expect. Be sure to ask for reference of a similiar size/business though.
The IT Partner most probably might not be able to assist with Magento issues (in most cases it's better to have a specialised Magento partner anyway) but they should be able to ensure your day-to-day IT runs as smoothly as possible.
WMS = warehouse management system. On-Prem basically means any on premise hardware i.e. servers.
Apologies if I'm being incoherent... it's been a long day.
Edited by anxious_ant on Wednesday 10th June 20:29
sociopath said:
There will be more opinions in this than there are stars in the heavens, but in my experience outsourcing can be successful, but I've never seen it succeed if there isn't someone in the client organisation with a good understanding of IT that can communicate, liaise, and manage the outsourcers.
Without that control and oversight you'll get the problems you're getting, If you're lucky. If you're unlucky they'll take you to the cleaners.
If it was me, and it has been on several occasions, I'd look at getting an IT body that is capable of managing the outsourcers and also has a strong understanding of IT in general so can spot bullst. If they can do some stuff themselves that would be a bonus in my view.
Sadly, your first paragraph is exactly us. There is no one.Without that control and oversight you'll get the problems you're getting, If you're lucky. If you're unlucky they'll take you to the cleaners.
If it was me, and it has been on several occasions, I'd look at getting an IT body that is capable of managing the outsourcers and also has a strong understanding of IT in general so can spot bulls
t. If they can do some stuff themselves that would be a bonus in my view.Even in the few replies thus far, you last point looks to have consensus, and makes sense. But as ive already posted, how do i avoid recruiting the bulls
tters when we have no one with a good understanding.?IMHO, you're going to struggle to employ a person who is good with your mix of technologies and... not going to get bored after a few months if you only have three staff (assuming you're not going to grow very, very quickly). You've also got to vet the candidates.
If you're paying for support and Outlook keeps having issues, either tell your current support provider to pull their finger out or go to market for a new provider. Setup properly (which shouldn't be hard for 3 staff), O365 should be very reliable and hassle free.
If you're paying for support and Outlook keeps having issues, either tell your current support provider to pull their finger out or go to market for a new provider. Setup properly (which shouldn't be hard for 3 staff), O365 should be very reliable and hassle free.
Is your Magento bogged down with lots of customer records, products, stores / store views and extensions?
As others have said, Magento needs constant attention in my experience and that doesn't come cheap.
When I migrated from Magento to Magento 2 we took the decision to move away from an ERP (that also needed lots of support) that was bolted to Magento and caused it to fall over a lot and take everything down with it.
We went with seperate systems for each business function so if one went down the business wasn't affected as much. We settled on Magento 2, Linnworks, Zendesk and Inventory Planner. Magento was still always an issue though even with our own super powerful servers.
Magento support was always outsourced (we used a very well priced outfit in Eastern Europe most recently) but there were also few of us who were knowledgeable enough to manage minor issues and the work of the agency.
I have used Magento for 10 years or so but I don't really like it and I can see the appeal of the numerous other ecom platforms that are now available.
As others have said, Magento needs constant attention in my experience and that doesn't come cheap.
When I migrated from Magento to Magento 2 we took the decision to move away from an ERP (that also needed lots of support) that was bolted to Magento and caused it to fall over a lot and take everything down with it.
We went with seperate systems for each business function so if one went down the business wasn't affected as much. We settled on Magento 2, Linnworks, Zendesk and Inventory Planner. Magento was still always an issue though even with our own super powerful servers.
Magento support was always outsourced (we used a very well priced outfit in Eastern Europe most recently) but there were also few of us who were knowledgeable enough to manage minor issues and the work of the agency.
I have used Magento for 10 years or so but I don't really like it and I can see the appeal of the numerous other ecom platforms that are now available.
Edited by FactoryBacked on Wednesday 10th June 20:36
anxious_ant said:
Well M2 was suppose to be this all singing all dancing upgrade but from my previous experience it's been plagued with bugs. However the developers are quick to fix it. For a company running M2 with extensions its a bit painful going through UAT (testing) phase each time this happens.
Personall I don't think it's worth employing internal IT support for company of 3 people. What you need is to look around for any decent local IT support partners. SLAs is an important thing to look out for here. This is basically how long it takes for them to respond to tickets. There are different SLAs for severity of the incident. You might also want ot consider any out of hours support if required. Some partners are also willing to let you speak to references to get a feel of what to expect. Be sure to ask for reference of a similiar size/business though.
The IT Partner most probably might not be able to assist with Magento issues (in most cases it's better to have a specialised Magento partner anyway) but they should be able to ensure your day-to-day IT runs as smoothly as possible.
WMS = warehouse management system. On-Prem basically means any on premise hardware i.e. servers.
Apologies if I'm being incoherent... it's been a long day.
Dissapointing about magento. Im in too deep with it now though i think, but is anything else actually any better?Personall I don't think it's worth employing internal IT support for company of 3 people. What you need is to look around for any decent local IT support partners. SLAs is an important thing to look out for here. This is basically how long it takes for them to respond to tickets. There are different SLAs for severity of the incident. You might also want ot consider any out of hours support if required. Some partners are also willing to let you speak to references to get a feel of what to expect. Be sure to ask for reference of a similiar size/business though.
The IT Partner most probably might not be able to assist with Magento issues (in most cases it's better to have a specialised Magento partner anyway) but they should be able to ensure your day-to-day IT runs as smoothly as possible.
WMS = warehouse management system. On-Prem basically means any on premise hardware i.e. servers.
Apologies if I'm being incoherent... it's been a long day.
We do have an IT support contract. Whilst they are unquestionably better than the last lot, and they do respond as required, they appear to be unable to fix some issues. But again, is that because they are not good enough, or because O365 is littered with bugs? I dont know. How can i know.
The ERP is the WMS. Just PC's on site. No servers as advised by IT support guys.
Are the IT issues costing you money and/or preventing you from developing your business (effectively the same thing)? Work out the cost of this and decide whether it justifies a FT or PT employee.
If you go down that route, do you know anyone who could help you recruit/interview that person?
If you go down that route, do you know anyone who could help you recruit/interview that person?
Harpoon said:
IMHO, you're going to struggle to employ a person who is good with your mix of technologies and... not going to get bored after a few months if you only have three staff (assuming you're not going to grow very, very quickly). You've also got to vet the candidates.
If you're paying for support and Outlook keeps having issues, either tell your current support provider to pull their finger out or go to market for a new provider. Setup properly (which shouldn't be hard for 3 staff), O365 should be very reliable and hassle free.
Hmmm. This is what i feared. Ive been round this loop a few times though, so maybe im doing something wrong? Its never worked properly.If you're paying for support and Outlook keeps having issues, either tell your current support provider to pull their finger out or go to market for a new provider. Setup properly (which shouldn't be hard for 3 staff), O365 should be very reliable and hassle free.
Bull Fullbright said:
sociopath said:
There will be more opinions in this than there are stars in the heavens, but in my experience outsourcing can be successful, but I've never seen it succeed if there isn't someone in the client organisation with a good understanding of IT that can communicate, liaise, and manage the outsourcers.
Without that control and oversight you'll get the problems you're getting, If you're lucky. If you're unlucky they'll take you to the cleaners.
If it was me, and it has been on several occasions, I'd look at getting an IT body that is capable of managing the outsourcers and also has a strong understanding of IT in general so can spot bullst. If they can do some stuff themselves that would be a bonus in my view.
Sadly, your first paragraph is exactly us. There is no one.Without that control and oversight you'll get the problems you're getting, If you're lucky. If you're unlucky they'll take you to the cleaners.
If it was me, and it has been on several occasions, I'd look at getting an IT body that is capable of managing the outsourcers and also has a strong understanding of IT in general so can spot bulls
t. If they can do some stuff themselves that would be a bonus in my view.Even in the few replies thus far, you last point looks to have consensus, and makes sense. But as ive already posted, how do i avoid recruiting the bulls
tters when we have no one with a good understanding.?My last role was as a contracf IT director in exactly that position, my client had outsourced everything and knew nothing about IT. So I was brought in to fix it and to fix the outsourcers. The main criteria They used to select me was did they trust me, could I talk at board level, did o have an approach they could work with, and it was much less about did I know the systems (I didn't as they were bespoke)
FactoryBacked said:
Is your Magento bogged down with lots of customer records, products, stores / store views and extensions?
As others have said, Magento needs constant attention in my experience and that doesn't come cheap.
When I migrated from Magento to Magento 2 we took the decision to move away from an ERP (that also needed lots of support) that was bolted to Magento and caused it to fall over a lot and take everything down with it.
We went with seperate systems for each business function so if one went down the business wasn't affected as much. We settled on Magento 2, Linnworks, Zendesk and Inventory Planner. Magento was still always an issue though even with our own super powerful servers.
Magento support was always outsourced (we used a very well priced outfit in Eastern Europe most recently) but there were also few of us who were knowledgeable enough to manage minor issues and the work of the agency.
I have used Magento for 10 years or so but I don't really like it and I can see the appeal of the numerous other ecom platforms that are now available.
Its certainly got a lot of products in it! Not too many customer records yet. Only been running with it for 2 months.As others have said, Magento needs constant attention in my experience and that doesn't come cheap.
When I migrated from Magento to Magento 2 we took the decision to move away from an ERP (that also needed lots of support) that was bolted to Magento and caused it to fall over a lot and take everything down with it.
We went with seperate systems for each business function so if one went down the business wasn't affected as much. We settled on Magento 2, Linnworks, Zendesk and Inventory Planner. Magento was still always an issue though even with our own super powerful servers.
Magento support was always outsourced (we used a very well priced outfit in Eastern Europe most recently) but there were also few of us who were knowledgeable enough to manage minor issues and the work of the agency.
I have used Magento for 10 years or so but I don't really like it and I can see the appeal of the numerous other ecom platforms that are now available.
Edited by FactoryBacked on Wednesday 10th June 20:36
Slightly off topic, but if magento isnt intergrated with the ERP, how do you get web orders from magento into ERP/Linnworks?
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Are the IT issues costing you money and/or preventing you from developing your business (effectively the same thing)? Work out the cost of this and decide whether it justifies a FT or PT employee.
If you go down that route, do you know anyone who could help you recruit/interview that person?
To answer your first question, yes definitely preventing me devloping the business. Id consider myself quite good at that, but instead of doing that, im bogged down in IT issues. I could probably justify it yes.If you go down that route, do you know anyone who could help you recruit/interview that person?
No, i know no-one that would be of assistance.
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