Discussion
Are any other self employed people finding it a nightmare to get paid at the moment? Everyone is trying to blame covid but there is more free money knocking about at the moment than there ever has been.
I'm finding clients will bare face lie to your face at the minute to try and get what they want.
There is one client at the minute that is really pissing me off, I know he is struggling but that's not my problem. He swore blind if we paid for some materials this week (£855) it would 100% be back in our bank this Friday, I didn't wan't to do it but my business partner wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and keep the job moving, well no surprises the money hasn't arrived. The builder will now wing it until he gets paid of his client and then pay us, maybe in a month or so.
Normally I don't mind waiting a month for the money back as we put a 20% markup on it even though we don't use credit accounts ourselves and pay for everything out of our bank but this joker insists on supplying him with a copy of our own invoices so we can prove how much we pay for stuff and he reimburses us, he treats it like an expense as opposed to a cost. This is another reason why we shouldn't get involved supplying materials as he now knows our suppliers and our discount but this was a one off to help him out, stupid really.
So unless the money arrives in our account by Sunday evening I vote to turn up at the job early Monday and rip the lot out, legal or otherwise. The house is due to be handed over next Friday and this would seriously f
k him up, hopefully even finish him off as no-one would get paid and they would all walk away. We are working away for a few weeks from Tuesday so there is no chance of going back even if he pays for everything up front.
Who else would teach him a lesson even if it means losing out on money and possible future work.
I'm finding clients will bare face lie to your face at the minute to try and get what they want.
There is one client at the minute that is really pissing me off, I know he is struggling but that's not my problem. He swore blind if we paid for some materials this week (£855) it would 100% be back in our bank this Friday, I didn't wan't to do it but my business partner wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and keep the job moving, well no surprises the money hasn't arrived. The builder will now wing it until he gets paid of his client and then pay us, maybe in a month or so.
Normally I don't mind waiting a month for the money back as we put a 20% markup on it even though we don't use credit accounts ourselves and pay for everything out of our bank but this joker insists on supplying him with a copy of our own invoices so we can prove how much we pay for stuff and he reimburses us, he treats it like an expense as opposed to a cost. This is another reason why we shouldn't get involved supplying materials as he now knows our suppliers and our discount but this was a one off to help him out, stupid really.
So unless the money arrives in our account by Sunday evening I vote to turn up at the job early Monday and rip the lot out, legal or otherwise. The house is due to be handed over next Friday and this would seriously f
k him up, hopefully even finish him off as no-one would get paid and they would all walk away. We are working away for a few weeks from Tuesday so there is no chance of going back even if he pays for everything up front.Who else would teach him a lesson even if it means losing out on money and possible future work.
I wouldn't call it free money by any means. There is cash in the system but it's not flowing and it's flowing cash that determines the health of the economy, not the amount of money that's in it.
Getting paid on time is a constant challenge in any invoice based business. Always has been. Always will.
I am not defending your client's actions but if they are worried about themselves getting paid by their customers then it's understandable that they may want to hold on to what cash they have until they do. This may make the difference to them surviving and continuing to be your client for years in the future or going to the wall meaning you loose both your money and a client.
This is one of those situations where you catch more wasps with honey than you do with a swat. Open a dialogue with them. See if you can get some of it. Be sympathetic. These are odd times that require a touch more collaborative relationships than might be the case in normal times.
Getting paid on time is a constant challenge in any invoice based business. Always has been. Always will.
I am not defending your client's actions but if they are worried about themselves getting paid by their customers then it's understandable that they may want to hold on to what cash they have until they do. This may make the difference to them surviving and continuing to be your client for years in the future or going to the wall meaning you loose both your money and a client.
This is one of those situations where you catch more wasps with honey than you do with a swat. Open a dialogue with them. See if you can get some of it. Be sympathetic. These are odd times that require a touch more collaborative relationships than might be the case in normal times.
scottyp123 said:
Are any other self employed people finding it a nightmare to get paid at the moment? Everyone is trying to blame covid but there is more free money knocking about at the moment than there ever has been.
I'm finding clients will bare face lie to your face at the minute to try and get what they want.
There is one client at the minute that is really pissing me off, I know he is struggling but that's not my problem. He swore blind if we paid for some materials this week (£855) it would 100% be back in our bank this Friday, I didn't wan't to do it but my business partner wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and keep the job moving, well no surprises the money hasn't arrived. The builder will now wing it until he gets paid of his client and then pay us, maybe in a month or so.
Normally I don't mind waiting a month for the money back as we put a 20% markup on it even though we don't use credit accounts ourselves and pay for everything out of our bank but this joker insists on supplying him with a copy of our own invoices so we can prove how much we pay for stuff and he reimburses us, he treats it like an expense as opposed to a cost. This is another reason why we shouldn't get involved supplying materials as he now knows our suppliers and our discount but this was a one off to help him out, stupid really.
So unless the money arrives in our account by Sunday evening I vote to turn up at the job early Monday and rip the lot out, legal or otherwise. The house is due to be handed over next Friday and this would seriously fk him up, hopefully even finish him off as no-one would get paid and they would all walk away. We are working away for a few weeks from Tuesday so there is no chance of going back even if he pays for everything up front.
Who else would teach him a lesson even if it means losing out on money and possible future work.
Does he pay you +20% on the invoices?I'm finding clients will bare face lie to your face at the minute to try and get what they want.
There is one client at the minute that is really pissing me off, I know he is struggling but that's not my problem. He swore blind if we paid for some materials this week (£855) it would 100% be back in our bank this Friday, I didn't wan't to do it but my business partner wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and keep the job moving, well no surprises the money hasn't arrived. The builder will now wing it until he gets paid of his client and then pay us, maybe in a month or so.
Normally I don't mind waiting a month for the money back as we put a 20% markup on it even though we don't use credit accounts ourselves and pay for everything out of our bank but this joker insists on supplying him with a copy of our own invoices so we can prove how much we pay for stuff and he reimburses us, he treats it like an expense as opposed to a cost. This is another reason why we shouldn't get involved supplying materials as he now knows our suppliers and our discount but this was a one off to help him out, stupid really.
So unless the money arrives in our account by Sunday evening I vote to turn up at the job early Monday and rip the lot out, legal or otherwise. The house is due to be handed over next Friday and this would seriously f
k him up, hopefully even finish him off as no-one would get paid and they would all walk away. We are working away for a few weeks from Tuesday so there is no chance of going back even if he pays for everything up front.Who else would teach him a lesson even if it means losing out on money and possible future work.
Just stop that imho. Give him and others lump sum prices then never let them see the invoices.
As for people making promises then breaking them; if it happens once perhaps ok and understandable, if it happens time and time again though perhaps you need to look in the mirror and ask why do you let him get away with it.
TX.
StevieBee said:
I wouldn't call it free money by any means. There is cash in the system but it's not flowing and it's flowing cash that determines the health of the economy, not the amount of money that's in it.
Getting paid on time is a constant challenge in any invoice based business. Always has been. Always will.
I am not defending your client's actions but if they are worried about themselves getting paid by their customers then it's understandable that they may want to hold on to what cash they have until they do. This may make the difference to them surviving and continuing to be your client for years in the future or going to the wall meaning you loose both your money and a client.
This is one of those situations where you catch more wasps with honey than you do with a swat. Open a dialogue with them. See if you can get some of it. Be sympathetic. These are odd times that require a touch more collaborative relationships than might be the case in normal times.
Normally I might agree but this is how the conversation went. Getting paid on time is a constant challenge in any invoice based business. Always has been. Always will.
I am not defending your client's actions but if they are worried about themselves getting paid by their customers then it's understandable that they may want to hold on to what cash they have until they do. This may make the difference to them surviving and continuing to be your client for years in the future or going to the wall meaning you loose both your money and a client.
This is one of those situations where you catch more wasps with honey than you do with a swat. Open a dialogue with them. See if you can get some of it. Be sympathetic. These are odd times that require a touch more collaborative relationships than might be the case in normal times.
Me - I've done some research for you and these are the cheapest places I can find for the gear you need, all you have to do is click the various links and order it all and it will all be at the job for the next day.
Him - Can you order it all for me as I'm very busy at the moment and I will pay you back this Friday
Me- I don't supply any materials for you its too much of a faff getting my money back and you insist on getting all your own materials anyway.
Him - Its not a problem I swear to god I will put the money straight back int your account.
So later that day I stick all the various goods in the basket ready to pay and ring him back.
Me - right I'm just about to order all these goods are you definitely sure you are going to pay the money back by Friday as we need it back to pay for other stuff.
Him - yes it absolutely no problem and you will have it by Friday.
So apart from giving him a bit of leeway with the money why would you want to work for a lying deceitful little s
t in the future no matter how much work comes his way. I've seen other people who are always chasing money by doing more and more work for someone and just getting further into the st until they eventually walk away, yet the people that down tools on day one a problem occurs always seem to get paid.Terminator X said:
Does he pay you +20% on the invoices?
Just stop that imho. Give him and others lump sum prices then never let them see the invoices.
As for people making promises then breaking them; if it happens once perhaps ok and understandable, if it happens time and time again though perhaps you need to look in the mirror and ask why do you let him get away with it.
TX.
We havent added on 20% because we don't normally supply anything to him and this was a one off to help him out, we've even reduced the day rate a bit because he under quoted himself for the job (I've seen his quote so that bit is true). If he doesn't pay this weekend though then the rate will be the normal one, its a favour for a favour.Just stop that imho. Give him and others lump sum prices then never let them see the invoices.
As for people making promises then breaking them; if it happens once perhaps ok and understandable, if it happens time and time again though perhaps you need to look in the mirror and ask why do you let him get away with it.
TX.
I don't normally let anyone get away with anything, I would be the most awkward sod going if it wasn't for my business partner. This builder has some really big jobs at the moment and we have just give him a quote for the electrics for about £25K The builder is saying we are all going to be rich when these jobs come off and I think my business partner is falling for it but I keep telling him "I've seen it all before".
Edited by scottyp123 on Saturday 13th June 11:16
scottyp123 said:
He swore blind if we paid for some materials this week (£855) it would 100% be back in our bank this Friday... So unless the money arrives in our account by Sunday evening I vote to turn up at the job early Monday and rip the lot out, legal or otherwise. The house is due to be handed over next Friday and this would seriously fk him up, hopefully even finish him off.
For being two days late? That's not going to look very good in court, nor is acting illegally. Calm down and try to think.k him up, hopefully even finish him off.ripping the lot out would be the second daft thing in the story
the first was, of course, buying the materials in the first place
not working for him again unless he pays in full up front is the only sensible way to proceed; put a few % extra on the costs as your "revenge" for his shenanigans
the first was, of course, buying the materials in the first place
not working for him again unless he pays in full up front is the only sensible way to proceed; put a few % extra on the costs as your "revenge" for his shenanigans
JPJPJP said:
ripping the lot out would be the second daft thing in the story
the first was, of course, buying the materials in the first place
not working for him again unless he pays in full up front is the only sensible way to proceed; put a few % extra on the costs as your "revenge" for his shenanigans
Why would ripping it out be a daft thing, I don't need to break in to do it I have a set of keys, its still my stuff and I can do what I wan't with it, some of the gear is still in the van that we took back with us "just in case" there wouldn't be a problem reusing the stuff elsewhere. the first was, of course, buying the materials in the first place
not working for him again unless he pays in full up front is the only sensible way to proceed; put a few % extra on the costs as your "revenge" for his shenanigans
Simpo Two said:
scottyp123 said:
He swore blind if we paid for some materials this week (£855) it would 100% be back in our bank this Friday... So unless the money arrives in our account by Sunday evening I vote to turn up at the job early Monday and rip the lot out, legal or otherwise. The house is due to be handed over next Friday and this would seriously fk him up, hopefully even finish him off.
For being two days late? That's not going to look very good in court, nor is acting illegally. Calm down and try to think.k him up, hopefully even finish him off.Quite often money doesn’t move on a weekend with bank transfers. (Why it doesn’t is another story in an age of digital banking!!)
If he has hit the button after close of business on Friday, it’s quite normal for it not to get the the payee until Monday morning.
Take a few deep breaths and look again Monday.
If he has hit the button after close of business on Friday, it’s quite normal for it not to get the the payee until Monday morning.
Take a few deep breaths and look again Monday.
Ham_and_Jam said:
Quite often money doesn’t move on a weekend with bank transfers. (Why it doesn’t is another story in an age of digital banking!!)
If he has hit the button after close of business on Friday, it’s quite normal for it not to get the the payee until Monday morning.
Take a few deep breaths and look again Monday.
Maybe but the payments we have had in the past from him have been "faster payment" ones and they always show up immediately no matter what day or time they are sent.If he has hit the button after close of business on Friday, it’s quite normal for it not to get the the payee until Monday morning.
Take a few deep breaths and look again Monday.
scottyp123 said:
Why would ripping it out be a daft thing, I don't need to break in to do it I have a set of keys, its still my stuff and I can do what I wan't with it, some of the gear is still in the van that we took back with us "just in case" there wouldn't be a problem reusing the stuff elsewhere.
because then your chance of getting paid is nil, the chance of more inconvenience is higher and your opportunity to overcharge him (with payment up front) for future work is gonebut, if you think it is the best option, then go for it - you know the guy better than anyone here
JPJPJP said:
because then your chance of getting paid is nil, the chance of more inconvenience is higher and your opportunity to overcharge him (with payment up front) for future work is gone
but, if you think it is the best option, then go for it - you know the guy better than anyone here
Fair point but he will certainly pay for it in the future, many times over, certainly no more favours.but, if you think it is the best option, then go for it - you know the guy better than anyone here
As suspected no money has been paid into the account over the weekend, my partner did get a text off him saying it would be in later on today but that's obviously a lie, we were due to go back today and finish off so he thinks he can out smart us and get us to finish it so he can had it over on Friday.
The daft thing is we've still got half the gear in the van that not been fitted yet so he only has about £450 worth of gear out of the £850 fitted so he would still have to purchase the other gear and find someone else to fit it all before Friday. It doesn't make any sense to me, how is he going to pull that one off? Also as from tomorrow we are working away Monday to Friday for a bit and we told him this last week that Monday was the only available day we could do anything.
To be fair apart from the money aspect this has worked out well, my partner is finishing off decorating his house today so the carpets can be fitted Wednesday and the sun is out and I'm going to sit in the garden and relax all day before the hard work begins tomorrow. God people are stupid.
The daft thing is we've still got half the gear in the van that not been fitted yet so he only has about £450 worth of gear out of the £850 fitted so he would still have to purchase the other gear and find someone else to fit it all before Friday. It doesn't make any sense to me, how is he going to pull that one off? Also as from tomorrow we are working away Monday to Friday for a bit and we told him this last week that Monday was the only available day we could do anything.
To be fair apart from the money aspect this has worked out well, my partner is finishing off decorating his house today so the carpets can be fitted Wednesday and the sun is out and I'm going to sit in the garden and relax all day before the hard work begins tomorrow. God people are stupid.
I wouldn't anyway, we needed to start at 8AM to make sure its finished, I wouldn't go in at lunch time and work my bks for him to get it done no matter how much he paid now, he will just have to wait until our next job is finished, I've not got a clue when that is though.
From experience in the past, if you do finish the job so the client can get paid he doesn't even pay you then, he uses your money he gets to pay someone else who he still needs. Once you start chasing money by doing more work you will end up losing loads.
This is why I'm in favour of getting the stuff back really, we have plenty of other work anyway and I don't particularly want to work for anyone who tries to con us anyway. I'd rather work for an honest person for half the money than a shyster for full.
ks for him to get it done no matter how much he paid now, he will just have to wait until our next job is finished, I've not got a clue when that is though.From experience in the past, if you do finish the job so the client can get paid he doesn't even pay you then, he uses your money he gets to pay someone else who he still needs. Once you start chasing money by doing more work you will end up losing loads.
This is why I'm in favour of getting the stuff back really, we have plenty of other work anyway and I don't particularly want to work for anyone who tries to con us anyway. I'd rather work for an honest person for half the money than a shyster for full.
We've finally got the money this evening, even made a profit of 55p. We had to threaten him with stripping the place though and we are still the nice guys as we've told him not to worry about the labour side of things for now.
I don't think the lads a shyster, just a bit naive and he is probably a bit bewildered why business school never taught that things like this will happen, not sure how he will cope when someone eventually pops him one. He reckons he only got a £3K payment when he is owed £30K, he should be doing what we are doing and threaten to take the roof off.
I don't think the lads a shyster, just a bit naive and he is probably a bit bewildered why business school never taught that things like this will happen, not sure how he will cope when someone eventually pops him one. He reckons he only got a £3K payment when he is owed £30K, he should be doing what we are doing and threaten to take the roof off.
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