Trace Patent Application
Discussion
Could anyone advise on how to view a patent application? I have a reference, of the form PCTEP20180XXXX (the last four X are digits).
I’ve tried on various websites such as wipo.int but the reference is rejected. All I have is the reference and the fact it was likely filed in Spain.
Thanks.
I’ve tried on various websites such as wipo.int but the reference is rejected. All I have is the reference and the fact it was likely filed in Spain.
Thanks.
Birkin1932 said:
Thanks. That did allow me to trace the probable author of the pending patent - he has other patents in his name. But it still doesn't show this one.I've tried tracing it in the form PCT EP2018/0XXXX and also PCT ES2018/0XXXX (in case the EP was a mistake and it should be ES for Spain).
Any experts here?
RM said:
Could the patent application have been rejected and hence no results?
Sorry, no idea. I'm fairly sure there is a resident IP/patents guru who might be able to answer a few questions but can't remember their profile name. With a bit of luck they may stumble across your thread.Espacenet will accept the syntax "PCT/EP2018/XXXXXX" in the search bar. If it doesn't, the number may be wrong.
I can provide a bit more information if it would be helpful. Not sure why you're looking but I assume you're evaluating a competitor patent?
PCT/EP2018/: means it's an International patent application, filed in 2018 by an Applicant with some kind of European presence.
What's an international application? Not what most people think it is, so I'll explain.
Background first - Typically, someone will file a national patent application in their home country, which gives them a much-needed filing date. Let's say 2017. If they want foreign protection, they normally only have 12 months (2018) to file abroad while keeping the original filing date (essential). However, foreign filing costs are expensive.
The international application is not a patent per se, but more of an extension of time. It extends the 12 month period to a whole 2.5 years from the original filing date, and for some countries a bit longer than 2.5 years. Therefore, applicant can keep options open for a while before committing to foreign filings.
When the 2.5 years expires, the applicant must then file specific national applications. A few months after each one has been filed, the national applications will start to pop up on Espacenet with their own numbers, for everyone to see. Some take longer than others to publish. By about 3-3.5 years, it's pretty clear to everyone which countries have been selected, and crucially which ones haven't, just by looking at the public record.
Based on what year that was filed, it may not yet be certain what national applications have been filed. You may have to sit tight and wait, if you are planning on looking at which countries are covered. One of the things about International applications is that they provisionally designate almost every country in the world, and keep competitors guessing for a really long time.
If this is feeding into a critical business decision, I strongly recommend at least a cursory professional evaluation.
I can provide a bit more information if it would be helpful. Not sure why you're looking but I assume you're evaluating a competitor patent?
PCT/EP2018/: means it's an International patent application, filed in 2018 by an Applicant with some kind of European presence.
What's an international application? Not what most people think it is, so I'll explain.
Background first - Typically, someone will file a national patent application in their home country, which gives them a much-needed filing date. Let's say 2017. If they want foreign protection, they normally only have 12 months (2018) to file abroad while keeping the original filing date (essential). However, foreign filing costs are expensive.
The international application is not a patent per se, but more of an extension of time. It extends the 12 month period to a whole 2.5 years from the original filing date, and for some countries a bit longer than 2.5 years. Therefore, applicant can keep options open for a while before committing to foreign filings.
When the 2.5 years expires, the applicant must then file specific national applications. A few months after each one has been filed, the national applications will start to pop up on Espacenet with their own numbers, for everyone to see. Some take longer than others to publish. By about 3-3.5 years, it's pretty clear to everyone which countries have been selected, and crucially which ones haven't, just by looking at the public record.
Based on what year that was filed, it may not yet be certain what national applications have been filed. You may have to sit tight and wait, if you are planning on looking at which countries are covered. One of the things about International applications is that they provisionally designate almost every country in the world, and keep competitors guessing for a really long time.
If this is feeding into a critical business decision, I strongly recommend at least a cursory professional evaluation.
Grrbang said:
Espacenet will accept the syntax "PCT/EP2018/XXXXXX" in the search bar. If it doesn't, the number may be wrong.
I can provide a bit more information if it would be helpful. Not sure why you're looking but I assume you're evaluating a competitor patent?
PCT/EP2018/: means it's an International patent application, filed in 2018 by an Applicant with some kind of European presence.
What's an international application? Not what most people think it is, so I'll explain.
Background first - Typically, someone will file a national patent application in their home country, which gives them a much-needed filing date. Let's say 2017. If they want foreign protection, they normally only have 12 months (2018) to file abroad while keeping the original filing date (essential). However, foreign filing costs are expensive.
The international application is not a patent per se, but more of an extension of time. It extends the 12 month period to a whole 2.5 years from the original filing date, and for some countries a bit longer than 2.5 years. Therefore, applicant can keep options open for a while before committing to foreign filings.
When the 2.5 years expires, the applicant must then file specific national applications. A few months after each one has been filed, the national applications will start to pop up on Espacenet with their own numbers, for everyone to see. Some take longer than others to publish. By about 3-3.5 years, it's pretty clear to everyone which countries have been selected, and crucially which ones haven't, just by looking at the public record.
Based on what year that was filed, it may not yet be certain what national applications have been filed. You may have to sit tight and wait, if you are planning on looking at which countries are covered. One of the things about International applications is that they provisionally designate almost every country in the world, and keep competitors guessing for a really long time.
If this is feeding into a critical business decision, I strongly recommend at least a cursory professional evaluation.
Thanks for the summary, that's very useful. Using the correct format still gives no search results on Espacenet. I assume it hasn't expired given the 2018 in the reference, so I can only assume they have published an incorrect number on their website. Unless they can withdraw it?I can provide a bit more information if it would be helpful. Not sure why you're looking but I assume you're evaluating a competitor patent?
PCT/EP2018/: means it's an International patent application, filed in 2018 by an Applicant with some kind of European presence.
What's an international application? Not what most people think it is, so I'll explain.
Background first - Typically, someone will file a national patent application in their home country, which gives them a much-needed filing date. Let's say 2017. If they want foreign protection, they normally only have 12 months (2018) to file abroad while keeping the original filing date (essential). However, foreign filing costs are expensive.
The international application is not a patent per se, but more of an extension of time. It extends the 12 month period to a whole 2.5 years from the original filing date, and for some countries a bit longer than 2.5 years. Therefore, applicant can keep options open for a while before committing to foreign filings.
When the 2.5 years expires, the applicant must then file specific national applications. A few months after each one has been filed, the national applications will start to pop up on Espacenet with their own numbers, for everyone to see. Some take longer than others to publish. By about 3-3.5 years, it's pretty clear to everyone which countries have been selected, and crucially which ones haven't, just by looking at the public record.
Based on what year that was filed, it may not yet be certain what national applications have been filed. You may have to sit tight and wait, if you are planning on looking at which countries are covered. One of the things about International applications is that they provisionally designate almost every country in the world, and keep competitors guessing for a really long time.
If this is feeding into a critical business decision, I strongly recommend at least a cursory professional evaluation.
A bit of background, the patent refers to a food preparation machine. A one-off was built in 2013 and a stop motion video published on Vimeo that showed both the assembly of the machine from all its parts and the use of the machine, which was then used in a food shop. From my very limited knowledge, I had thought this would prevent a patent but I wanted to look further into the details of the patent as I would be interested in manufacturing the machine myself.
RM said:
.. the patent refers to a food preparation machine. A one-off was built in 2013 and a stop motion video published on Vimeo ... I had thought this would prevent a patent ...
I too would think the same. In my basic experience of researching and possibly applying for a patent I found out that using an IP lawyer does not give you an absolute guarantee that your patent will be watertight.Basically, the person who may be applying for a patent may not be aware that the design is in the public domain by way of the vid and their IP lawyer (if they used one) did not find the video either. Or perhaps they or the IP lawyer claim that the design which is being patented is significantly different to the one in the vid. That last point may be the crux of the matter.
RM said:
I can only assume they have published an incorrect number on their website. Unless they can withdraw it?
Could either be an incorrect number, or they withdrew it before it ever published. If withdrawn, they may have no rights to enforce whatever was claimed in the application.Normally, the thing I do at this stage is arrange a company specific search. This first involves investigating the company to identify possible names of rights holders, and then searching for patents in those names. If that patent isn’t found, it was likely withdrawn before publication. The search might uncover other relevant patents too.
If you are launching a competing product that is likely to annoy someone, you will also want to get a bit of advice on other types of IP rights than patents. Big picture stuff.
RM said:
A bit of background, the patent refers to a food preparation machine. A one-off was built in 2013 and a stop motion video published on Vimeo that showed both the assembly of the machine from all its parts and the use of the machine, which was then used in a food shop. From my very limited knowledge, I had thought this would prevent a patent but I wanted to look further into the details of the patent as I would be interested in manufacturing the machine myself.
As an aside...Back in the "bad old days" the USA allowed what were called "submarine patents." Basically, you filled an application, but did not progress it to final grant. You waited - sometimes 10 or 20 years or even much longer. If you were lucky, your tech would become widely-used, at which point you revived your dormant application, got your patent (dated to the grant date), and then started invoicing for royalties. The popping up unexpectedly reminded people of submarines...
An uncrupulous application could apply for a patent, then deliberately spread information (not in his own name, but still...) of the invention so that others would pick it up and use it. When it reached "critical mass" he would finalise his patent, just in time to cash in on the royalties from something now in widespread use.
AIUI there are *still* potentially pre-1995 US patent filings that could "pop up" like that, but not many any longer. There are also still ways in the USA to delay publication for a little while.
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