Automotive Garage Startup Advice
Discussion
Hi All,
Long time PH member here, so secondary profile created for anonymity, this is early stages!
Looking for some advice, myself and business partner are currently putting a plan together to open a garage.
We both have combined over 30 years of experience as technicians in the trade within the German marque so are looking at focusing efforts in the VAG/Merc sector. We have worked in multiple dealers, trained to high levels and have more recently been in a broad technical, customer facing and managerial roles. Having identified a niche within our locale around this sector, we feel like we're at the stages in our lives (and still young enough) where we can make it happen and similarly, this has always been something we've both wanted to do for a long time.
Asides the obvious things which I think we've got covered, we're just looking for advice from people that have already lived it and got the T-shirt. If people with garages of their own could offer any additional insight that we wouldn't of thought of? (Other than not doing it and getting out the trade!)
We are currently putting in a lot of time into researching: diagnostic equipment, scopes, workshop ramps, garage CRM systems, suitable premises and trying to consider everything we may need to open up a fully operational shop from key safes to card readers, waste oil disposal to workshop heaters. It's difficult to cut through all the glossy marketing material and see how these things actually perform day to day and this is what we'd like to find out.
Any Dos & Don'ts, words of wisdom and advice you wish you'd known when taking the leap into starting out that may benefit us, we would love to hear as well!
Feel free to message me privately if you would rather not share certain info publicly.
All input appreciated,
Many Thanks,
R & S.
Long time PH member here, so secondary profile created for anonymity, this is early stages!
Looking for some advice, myself and business partner are currently putting a plan together to open a garage.
We both have combined over 30 years of experience as technicians in the trade within the German marque so are looking at focusing efforts in the VAG/Merc sector. We have worked in multiple dealers, trained to high levels and have more recently been in a broad technical, customer facing and managerial roles. Having identified a niche within our locale around this sector, we feel like we're at the stages in our lives (and still young enough) where we can make it happen and similarly, this has always been something we've both wanted to do for a long time.
Asides the obvious things which I think we've got covered, we're just looking for advice from people that have already lived it and got the T-shirt. If people with garages of their own could offer any additional insight that we wouldn't of thought of? (Other than not doing it and getting out the trade!)
We are currently putting in a lot of time into researching: diagnostic equipment, scopes, workshop ramps, garage CRM systems, suitable premises and trying to consider everything we may need to open up a fully operational shop from key safes to card readers, waste oil disposal to workshop heaters. It's difficult to cut through all the glossy marketing material and see how these things actually perform day to day and this is what we'd like to find out.
Any Dos & Don'ts, words of wisdom and advice you wish you'd known when taking the leap into starting out that may benefit us, we would love to hear as well!
Feel free to message me privately if you would rather not share certain info publicly.
All input appreciated,
Many Thanks,
R & S.
CrosseyedLion started a mobile mechanic service and then upgraded to a permanent workshop. May be worth talking to him, as he's recently gone through similar stuff.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=17...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=17...
these are just some random thoughts off the top of my head:
suppliers:
- do you know who you’ll need to have on board as suppliers?
- have you spoken to anyone about trade accounts? lines of credit? do you have cash to buy materials up front?
business/ accounts/ general:
- insurance- building, cars stored over night, tools, equipment, driving customers vehicles, public liability, professional indemnity?
- accounts/ book keeping- any experience of this at all? any knowledge of making tax digital etc??
- got an accountant?
- admin- planning doing this yourselves? think how many 5min phone calls you could take that stop you doing hands on work
- payroll?
- employment contracts?
the actual day to day work is not the hard part of running a business. it’s the actual business stuff that feels like it’s taking you away from making money, but gets in the way and needs doing!
suppliers:
- do you know who you’ll need to have on board as suppliers?
- have you spoken to anyone about trade accounts? lines of credit? do you have cash to buy materials up front?
business/ accounts/ general:
- insurance- building, cars stored over night, tools, equipment, driving customers vehicles, public liability, professional indemnity?
- accounts/ book keeping- any experience of this at all? any knowledge of making tax digital etc??
- got an accountant?
- admin- planning doing this yourselves? think how many 5min phone calls you could take that stop you doing hands on work
- payroll?
- employment contracts?
the actual day to day work is not the hard part of running a business. it’s the actual business stuff that feels like it’s taking you away from making money, but gets in the way and needs doing!
Whilst not a garage owner yet, I’ve worked in a small garage for 10+years dealing with all aspects,
Premises is your biggest outgoing, can you find a suitable workshop? Does it have decent footfall/near other businesses? As these are good to have for regular/local customers, word of mouth is key, keep everyone happy, a couple of bad reviews can hurt.
You’ll need a chunk of cash as a backup as there are quiet months, August is always slow for us,
Things like 2 post lifts cheaper brands are ok to get you going, low entry is a must, automotech, or twinbusch being a couple I’ve used and had no complaints.
Diagnostics is where you need to spend a couple of ££ depending what you want to do, it might be worth investing in dealer level tech,
Workshop heating is difficult and expensive, waste oil burners are no longer legal. A clear curtain helps to keep heat in the garage whilst helping you look like you’re open.
There are a few companies about that collect waste oil, oil monster is one I’ve heard people talk about, normally the more you have the better deal you get.
Premises is your biggest outgoing, can you find a suitable workshop? Does it have decent footfall/near other businesses? As these are good to have for regular/local customers, word of mouth is key, keep everyone happy, a couple of bad reviews can hurt.
You’ll need a chunk of cash as a backup as there are quiet months, August is always slow for us,
Things like 2 post lifts cheaper brands are ok to get you going, low entry is a must, automotech, or twinbusch being a couple I’ve used and had no complaints.
Diagnostics is where you need to spend a couple of ££ depending what you want to do, it might be worth investing in dealer level tech,
Workshop heating is difficult and expensive, waste oil burners are no longer legal. A clear curtain helps to keep heat in the garage whilst helping you look like you’re open.
There are a few companies about that collect waste oil, oil monster is one I’ve heard people talk about, normally the more you have the better deal you get.
Heaters? You can tell you guys are coming from the shop floor why would you need heaters? You'll be working so hard you'll have no need for them 
I do a lot of my own work in all seasons in my place and never had a heater. As mentioned already waste oil heaters although actually not illegal will require an expensive license and the waste oil can't actually be used just....oil.
There are a few VAG specialists near us they seem to do pretty well. If you are earning anywhere near 40k on PAYE you might want to seriously consider if the hassle is worth it. There's a huge difference from having your name above the door to just clocking in and out. Are you ready for the full force of the public?
Spannering has lots of overheads and it can be hard to charge the right money. If you bring in a lot of service work it could be pretty sweet but the reality is you'll be bogged down in fault finding and struggling to bill the hours you have put in.
If you are going to do it I would start as lean as you can. Figure out only the bare minimum of equipment you need. Mechanics have an odd habit of throwing vast sums of money at things they don't need.. like Snap on. Waste of money. I have Halfords stuff and two Automotech lifts. Basic stuff to do basic jobs but its the basic jobs that will earn for you. Customers don't care what brand your kit is and I know plenty of fecking useless mechanics with huge snap on tool chests!
Don't be afraid to turn away jobs that look like they could tie you in knots.
Don't do fleet or taxi jobs unless they are paying full rates. Your business costs don't reduce just because its a clutch on a taxi rather than a private car.
Charge a punchy hourly rate
Find a good MOT place
If you are looking at renting premises read the contracts or get a reputable lawyer to explain them in layman's terms. This document will be the biggest commitment you'll make. Understand what you are getting into with regards leases and in particular how the end of the lease is dealt with (dilapidations) go for a year break clause too.
I do a lot of my own work in all seasons in my place and never had a heater. As mentioned already waste oil heaters although actually not illegal will require an expensive license and the waste oil can't actually be used just....oil.
There are a few VAG specialists near us they seem to do pretty well. If you are earning anywhere near 40k on PAYE you might want to seriously consider if the hassle is worth it. There's a huge difference from having your name above the door to just clocking in and out. Are you ready for the full force of the public?
Spannering has lots of overheads and it can be hard to charge the right money. If you bring in a lot of service work it could be pretty sweet but the reality is you'll be bogged down in fault finding and struggling to bill the hours you have put in.
If you are going to do it I would start as lean as you can. Figure out only the bare minimum of equipment you need. Mechanics have an odd habit of throwing vast sums of money at things they don't need.. like Snap on. Waste of money. I have Halfords stuff and two Automotech lifts. Basic stuff to do basic jobs but its the basic jobs that will earn for you. Customers don't care what brand your kit is and I know plenty of fecking useless mechanics with huge snap on tool chests!
Don't be afraid to turn away jobs that look like they could tie you in knots.
Don't do fleet or taxi jobs unless they are paying full rates. Your business costs don't reduce just because its a clutch on a taxi rather than a private car.
Charge a punchy hourly rate
Find a good MOT place
If you are looking at renting premises read the contracts or get a reputable lawyer to explain them in layman's terms. This document will be the biggest commitment you'll make. Understand what you are getting into with regards leases and in particular how the end of the lease is dealt with (dilapidations) go for a year break clause too.
Hi, this is something I managed to do which saw out the last 10 years of my working life before selling the business on and retiring.
Just a couple of points - heating - I once worked in a place that was so cold in the winter we needed to keep the milk in the fridge to stop it freezing. Seriously. When I set up myself we had a waste oil heater, fuelled by waste oil. Mate of mine restored an old heater, I bought it off him for a few hundred quid, it lasted me 10 years and is still in use in the business as we speak... well, it will be back in use next winter, I should say. We stored waste oil (cleanly, not in loads of 25l barrels all over the place as many do) on the premises. Insurance co were aware. I knew many who did the same (though usually were messier). Who is checking on legality and licencing? I never heard of anybody being checked. I believe waste oil heaters are being sold so I would look into it. Alternatively, bunded heating oil tanks are not vastly expensive, consider looking at proper oil heaters, though this may be something for your second winter, once you've established yourself. A freezing workshop does not present a good image and tends not to keep staff.
We rented railway arches from Network Rail. They have 'sold on' most of their arches on to a 'new' company, who I happen to know are old network rail staff, and their advertising and websites are the same as the Network Rail ones. The new company is called Archco. I simply mention this as I found them to be good and decent landlords, premises were in good condition and they fixed problems promptly.,so if you have any in your area you may want to check them out.
Just a couple of points - heating - I once worked in a place that was so cold in the winter we needed to keep the milk in the fridge to stop it freezing. Seriously. When I set up myself we had a waste oil heater, fuelled by waste oil. Mate of mine restored an old heater, I bought it off him for a few hundred quid, it lasted me 10 years and is still in use in the business as we speak... well, it will be back in use next winter, I should say. We stored waste oil (cleanly, not in loads of 25l barrels all over the place as many do) on the premises. Insurance co were aware. I knew many who did the same (though usually were messier). Who is checking on legality and licencing? I never heard of anybody being checked. I believe waste oil heaters are being sold so I would look into it. Alternatively, bunded heating oil tanks are not vastly expensive, consider looking at proper oil heaters, though this may be something for your second winter, once you've established yourself. A freezing workshop does not present a good image and tends not to keep staff.
We rented railway arches from Network Rail. They have 'sold on' most of their arches on to a 'new' company, who I happen to know are old network rail staff, and their advertising and websites are the same as the Network Rail ones. The new company is called Archco. I simply mention this as I found them to be good and decent landlords, premises were in good condition and they fixed problems promptly.,so if you have any in your area you may want to check them out.
fridaypassion said:
Spannering has lots of overheads and it can be hard to charge the right money. If you bring in a lot of service work it could be pretty sweet but the reality is you'll be bogged down in fault finding and struggling to bill the hours you have put in.
If you are going to do it I would start as lean as you can. Figure out only the bare minimum of equipment you need. Mechanics have an odd habit of throwing vast sums of money at things they don't need.. like Snap on. Waste of money. I have Halfords stuff and two Automotech lifts. Basic stuff to do basic jobs but its the basic jobs that will earn for you. Customers don't care what brand your kit is and I know plenty of fecking useless mechanics with huge snap on tool chests!
Don't be afraid to turn away jobs that look like they could tie you in knots.
Don't do fleet or taxi jobs unless they are paying full rates. Your business costs don't reduce just because its a clutch on a taxi rather than a private car.
Charge a punchy hourly rate
Find a good MOT place
If you are looking at renting premises read the contracts or get a reputable lawyer to explain them in layman's terms. This document will be the biggest commitment you'll make. Understand what you are getting into with regards leases and in particular how the end of the lease is dealt with (dilapidations) go for a year break clause too.
These are all good points. Keep the place clean (sounds like you will anyway), don't get tied up in storing lots of old sIf you are going to do it I would start as lean as you can. Figure out only the bare minimum of equipment you need. Mechanics have an odd habit of throwing vast sums of money at things they don't need.. like Snap on. Waste of money. I have Halfords stuff and two Automotech lifts. Basic stuff to do basic jobs but its the basic jobs that will earn for you. Customers don't care what brand your kit is and I know plenty of fecking useless mechanics with huge snap on tool chests!
Don't be afraid to turn away jobs that look like they could tie you in knots.
Don't do fleet or taxi jobs unless they are paying full rates. Your business costs don't reduce just because its a clutch on a taxi rather than a private car.
Charge a punchy hourly rate
Find a good MOT place
If you are looking at renting premises read the contracts or get a reputable lawyer to explain them in layman's terms. This document will be the biggest commitment you'll make. Understand what you are getting into with regards leases and in particular how the end of the lease is dealt with (dilapidations) go for a year break clause too.
t parts in the belief "it might come in useful", that just looks a bloody mess to customers. Keep your place looking nice and tidy, it does genuinely make a difference. Keep it all CLEAN. As FP says, do turn down jobs that could get you bogged right down, especially in your early days. Be very, very wary of jobs where someone has worked on them before, because there is simply no end to the damage people will do. (Though you may have seen this yourselves before), and as he said, don't do fleet or taxi work. Keep traders well away, unless you find an honest one. (I did, just one honest guy out of a whole bunch of complete rogues).
My funding when I began was from my wife, who had a good job so paid the household bills and fed me, plus savings, plus my credit card, which I paid off each month as I always have. I managed to not accrue any debt at all, apart being turned over on an A/C machine by my main parts supplier. That was really stupid because it meant I no longer dealt with them any further, which simply meant we both lost out.
Sounds like you'll already have a good relationship with parts suppliers.
Good luck!
Thanks everyone for the replies so far.
Crosseyedlion's thread is awe inspiring. Really happy to see someone take the plunge and it pay off!
Hopefully the below will provide some more detail on where we are.
Suppliers - we have very good contacts, we have used the 2 main suppliers frequently for last 6 years to know stakeholders within them personally. We haven't discussed actual credit accounts with them yet as its early days and we would be unable to have these conversations just yet.
Insurance - On the to do list. Does anyone have an estimate of cost that should be expected to pay per annum and what the cover looks like?
Accountants/accounts/tax/payroll/employment - I have a very good mate who's an accountant, whilst I doubt he will have time to do our books every year, he has already given us excellent advice and will continue to do so. Previous experience of book keeping with Freeagent, VAT returns & payroll. I am hoping a clever CRM system can look after the majority of this for us, freeing up our time as it did within Freeagent software. *(Any advice, experience with a CRM system would be great, there are so many to choose from)!* I plan to utilise and modify contracts I've had in the past, along with currently available absence/disciplinary/grievance policy's etc to create something to suit our business.
Premises - We looked today! Two units. Both circa 3000 - 3500sq ft, so something we can grow into. Both had pros and cons but we are leaning towards one that has a reception area, cust toilet and some back offices, staff kitchenette as we look to expand and grow. One is currently a retail shop the other has been empty for some time. Both units are central within our locale, albeit surrounded by 3 other 1 man band garages. The biggest issue here is cost of fitting out the units to cater for our needs which is an unexpected cost at the moment.
Trying to plan how it would look, as it's currently a fully kitted out merchant/retail shop is also difficult along with some of the roof joists being quite low and the building having a mezzanine first floor...! We're hoping to negotiate something around this though to ease the burden but there aren't very many suitable units around our area, even more so that will take motor trade. With that in mind it looks like we may have to spend to get going. I think we may need additional help in this area, the last thing we want to do is agree a lease and find out it's not suitable after spending thousands ripping out a first floor and pulling it back to bare bones.
Friday Passion - you make some excellent points and I can relate to the majority of your statements! (I) quickly learnt about the snap on tax, as an apprentice I was sold a set of spanners for £240 took me 12 months to pay them off... Since then I shopped in machine mart and the lower end of the market and understood the value of what a good tools worth!
Currently we both comfortably earn well above 40k however we are not going into this with a mindset to make ends meat and spannering for the rest of our days. There is an expectation to establish, grow and earn much more than this and eventually get off the spanners/open more shops. We currently deal with the general public everyday on multiple levels, mostly when they're in stressful situations so are well rounded in the "lingo" and managing with unrealistic expectations.
Without giving the game away, essentially the model is to take all the things we believe garages aren't currently doing, or capitalising on and do it much better. Great point about the lease, already today we have learned there is much to understand about leasing a unit.
Coleman - What do you currently use within your independent? The Autel maxipro seems to be good value for money and will cover the majority of the needs. In comparison to a snap on verus which is mega money and not really that well reviewed? Ultimately at some point we will invest in dealer level VW software to carry out specialist repairs and do the bulk of the data/code reading etc. Most importantly we want to advocate the usage of in depth scope diagnosis to allow us to diagnose the bulk of the crap work. Will have a look at the ramps suggested, thanks.
heebeegeetee - thanks for the input. As described briefly above, we are looking to break the mould around the independent garage game. This includes not having a garage that looks like a sh""hole
Can anyone advise around independent garage tech efficiency levels, booking out "billable" workshop hours that are realistic and real world? Any input on software used to lookup workshop information (other than autodata)?
Thanks again for the input.
Crosseyedlion's thread is awe inspiring. Really happy to see someone take the plunge and it pay off!
Hopefully the below will provide some more detail on where we are.
Suppliers - we have very good contacts, we have used the 2 main suppliers frequently for last 6 years to know stakeholders within them personally. We haven't discussed actual credit accounts with them yet as its early days and we would be unable to have these conversations just yet.
Insurance - On the to do list. Does anyone have an estimate of cost that should be expected to pay per annum and what the cover looks like?
Accountants/accounts/tax/payroll/employment - I have a very good mate who's an accountant, whilst I doubt he will have time to do our books every year, he has already given us excellent advice and will continue to do so. Previous experience of book keeping with Freeagent, VAT returns & payroll. I am hoping a clever CRM system can look after the majority of this for us, freeing up our time as it did within Freeagent software. *(Any advice, experience with a CRM system would be great, there are so many to choose from)!* I plan to utilise and modify contracts I've had in the past, along with currently available absence/disciplinary/grievance policy's etc to create something to suit our business.
Premises - We looked today! Two units. Both circa 3000 - 3500sq ft, so something we can grow into. Both had pros and cons but we are leaning towards one that has a reception area, cust toilet and some back offices, staff kitchenette as we look to expand and grow. One is currently a retail shop the other has been empty for some time. Both units are central within our locale, albeit surrounded by 3 other 1 man band garages. The biggest issue here is cost of fitting out the units to cater for our needs which is an unexpected cost at the moment.
Trying to plan how it would look, as it's currently a fully kitted out merchant/retail shop is also difficult along with some of the roof joists being quite low and the building having a mezzanine first floor...! We're hoping to negotiate something around this though to ease the burden but there aren't very many suitable units around our area, even more so that will take motor trade. With that in mind it looks like we may have to spend to get going. I think we may need additional help in this area, the last thing we want to do is agree a lease and find out it's not suitable after spending thousands ripping out a first floor and pulling it back to bare bones.
Friday Passion - you make some excellent points and I can relate to the majority of your statements! (I) quickly learnt about the snap on tax, as an apprentice I was sold a set of spanners for £240 took me 12 months to pay them off... Since then I shopped in machine mart and the lower end of the market and understood the value of what a good tools worth!
Currently we both comfortably earn well above 40k however we are not going into this with a mindset to make ends meat and spannering for the rest of our days. There is an expectation to establish, grow and earn much more than this and eventually get off the spanners/open more shops. We currently deal with the general public everyday on multiple levels, mostly when they're in stressful situations so are well rounded in the "lingo" and managing with unrealistic expectations.
Without giving the game away, essentially the model is to take all the things we believe garages aren't currently doing, or capitalising on and do it much better. Great point about the lease, already today we have learned there is much to understand about leasing a unit.
Coleman - What do you currently use within your independent? The Autel maxipro seems to be good value for money and will cover the majority of the needs. In comparison to a snap on verus which is mega money and not really that well reviewed? Ultimately at some point we will invest in dealer level VW software to carry out specialist repairs and do the bulk of the data/code reading etc. Most importantly we want to advocate the usage of in depth scope diagnosis to allow us to diagnose the bulk of the crap work. Will have a look at the ramps suggested, thanks.
heebeegeetee - thanks for the input. As described briefly above, we are looking to break the mould around the independent garage game. This includes not having a garage that looks like a sh""hole
Can anyone advise around independent garage tech efficiency levels, booking out "billable" workshop hours that are realistic and real world? Any input on software used to lookup workshop information (other than autodata)?
Thanks again for the input.
By all means go for it but I’d really consider the serious threat of electrification of cars to your business model.
If you can go into it thinking that it may be a redundant business in 15 years or see if you can get into the ev side of things somehow.
One thing that would set you apart is if you can service cars when people aren’t using them. Why can’t you pick cars up in evenings service them and drop them off before the morning for people to have the next day. Most cars are sat on the driveway all night.
If you can go into it thinking that it may be a redundant business in 15 years or see if you can get into the ev side of things somehow.
One thing that would set you apart is if you can service cars when people aren’t using them. Why can’t you pick cars up in evenings service them and drop them off before the morning for people to have the next day. Most cars are sat on the driveway all night.
jamoor said:
By all means go for it but I’d really consider the serious threat of electrification of cars to your business model.
If you can go into it thinking that it may be a redundant business in 15 years or see if you can get into the ev side of things somehow.
One thing that would set you apart is if you can service cars when people aren’t using them. Why can’t you pick cars up in evenings service them and drop them off before the morning for people to have the next day. Most cars are sat on the driveway all night.
Hybrid / Electric is a huge part of our model If you can go into it thinking that it may be a redundant business in 15 years or see if you can get into the ev side of things somehow.
One thing that would set you apart is if you can service cars when people aren’t using them. Why can’t you pick cars up in evenings service them and drop them off before the morning for people to have the next day. Most cars are sat on the driveway all night.
Interesting concept on the servicing at night, nothing to stop it other than parts availability and finding someone that wants to fix cars within un-sociable hours. I'm aware dealerships opening hours are gradually getting longer and later to cram more work in to the diary, commercial dealers are typically 24 hour too. It would certainly alleviate a lot of hassle for the majority of the population working the same hours as a garage.
Forget servicing at night. Aside from the impossible staff/parts logistics, it’s a premium product and (virtually) nobody will pay a premium rate for it.
I’ve worked for 30 years in the trade going in and out of multiple workshops each day.
Best advice I would give is regarding the premises.
Buy, don’t rent.
It will cause a lot of extra work on setup but you will never regret it. If you rent you’ll find yourself in ten/twenty years time adding up how much you’ve paid out and you’ll realise how it would have left you with a FOC generous pension pot if you’d bought instead.
If you rent "for now", you’ll keep renting, the upheaval of moving will be too much once you’re trading.
I’ve worked for 30 years in the trade going in and out of multiple workshops each day.
Best advice I would give is regarding the premises.
Buy, don’t rent.
It will cause a lot of extra work on setup but you will never regret it. If you rent you’ll find yourself in ten/twenty years time adding up how much you’ve paid out and you’ll realise how it would have left you with a FOC generous pension pot if you’d bought instead.
If you rent "for now", you’ll keep renting, the upheaval of moving will be too much once you’re trading.
If you are both earning comfortably over 40k I think you should take a step back and seriously think about what you are getting into.
I know it's very exciting and I'm all for people going and making something of themselves but this sector isn't a particularly fruity one for the majority of owners and having two mouths to feed from the off plus all your other expenses it could be 5 years before you are drawing that kind of money again. Plus you'll be working 60 hours for it instead of 40.
I was fortunate in my business in that we tried it as an add on for just over 3 years and all it did was almost break me mentally and earn't me about enough money for a holiday. I needed two. Stripped it out of my retail sales business and we are flying again. It's a very tough sector no doubt I think more suited to owner operator. If you did it alone in a 1500sqft unit you would probably clear 50/60k pretty easily and always be busy.
I would echo the above about buying premises but I know this is a pipe dream even for established business owners. The system I think is very unfairly stacked against the normal working man in terms of getting a commercial mortgage and all the old family money swallows up the best commercial property. It's certainly something to work towards and certainly one of the best things I've achieved in my business and not something I ever thought would be possible.
Last note on this and it may be a difficult one to grapple with right now but...Partners. I cannot tell you how rare a successful business partnership is. The attrition rate must be 20X marriage! I have been lucky to have achieved one very successful partnership on another business I set up and one not so successful one where I still managed to stay on great terms with the other director but it's rare. Being good mates I think is actually not a good thing. Even in my two "good" partnerships in one business the other director was hiding a 20k bad debt because the customer was a mate! I would have had him kneecapped had I known he owed us that amount of money! So a partnership is not something I would really look at again with possibly one or two exceptions. If you really value the friendship I would absolutely 150% NOT go into business together as it is almost certain you will have a fall out at some stage.
I know it's very exciting and I'm all for people going and making something of themselves but this sector isn't a particularly fruity one for the majority of owners and having two mouths to feed from the off plus all your other expenses it could be 5 years before you are drawing that kind of money again. Plus you'll be working 60 hours for it instead of 40.
I was fortunate in my business in that we tried it as an add on for just over 3 years and all it did was almost break me mentally and earn't me about enough money for a holiday. I needed two. Stripped it out of my retail sales business and we are flying again. It's a very tough sector no doubt I think more suited to owner operator. If you did it alone in a 1500sqft unit you would probably clear 50/60k pretty easily and always be busy.
I would echo the above about buying premises but I know this is a pipe dream even for established business owners. The system I think is very unfairly stacked against the normal working man in terms of getting a commercial mortgage and all the old family money swallows up the best commercial property. It's certainly something to work towards and certainly one of the best things I've achieved in my business and not something I ever thought would be possible.
Last note on this and it may be a difficult one to grapple with right now but...Partners. I cannot tell you how rare a successful business partnership is. The attrition rate must be 20X marriage! I have been lucky to have achieved one very successful partnership on another business I set up and one not so successful one where I still managed to stay on great terms with the other director but it's rare. Being good mates I think is actually not a good thing. Even in my two "good" partnerships in one business the other director was hiding a 20k bad debt because the customer was a mate! I would have had him kneecapped had I known he owed us that amount of money! So a partnership is not something I would really look at again with possibly one or two exceptions. If you really value the friendship I would absolutely 150% NOT go into business together as it is almost certain you will have a fall out at some stage.
Interesting thread OP.
My only question would be why you want to 'break the mould', which could be at considerable expense to you, eating into your profit?
I have run premium cars for 25yrs, all out of warranty, so know the value of a good indie. I have a few in my area, who range from backstreet specialists in lock-ups running on a low cost base, to bigger boys operating from former retail showrooms in prime locations with a fleet of logo-branded loan cars, a big draw for their business.
The ones that do well do so on the basis of a good, solid reputation for quality work and not ripping people off. That's the main thing people want, I'm sure you know that. I really don't look for my garage to be pulling up stumps elsewhere, at their cost, I don't think you need to reinvent the wheel in this sector.
You just need to be at the level where people say "My Merc/VAG needs work" and te de facto local response is "take it to R and S, those boys know their onions" in the pub chat/forum stakes.
The very successful VAG indie near to me just advertises via stickers that people voluntarily put in their back window, it has become almost a local pride thing to say "I'm looked after by XYZ motors", and he's the only name that pops up repeatedly on online groups seeking recommendation.
My only question would be why you want to 'break the mould', which could be at considerable expense to you, eating into your profit?
I have run premium cars for 25yrs, all out of warranty, so know the value of a good indie. I have a few in my area, who range from backstreet specialists in lock-ups running on a low cost base, to bigger boys operating from former retail showrooms in prime locations with a fleet of logo-branded loan cars, a big draw for their business.
The ones that do well do so on the basis of a good, solid reputation for quality work and not ripping people off. That's the main thing people want, I'm sure you know that. I really don't look for my garage to be pulling up stumps elsewhere, at their cost, I don't think you need to reinvent the wheel in this sector.
You just need to be at the level where people say "My Merc/VAG needs work" and te de facto local response is "take it to R and S, those boys know their onions" in the pub chat/forum stakes.
The very successful VAG indie near to me just advertises via stickers that people voluntarily put in their back window, it has become almost a local pride thing to say "I'm looked after by XYZ motors", and he's the only name that pops up repeatedly on online groups seeking recommendation.
We have the option to purchase, as unit is currently for sale. However like most it is difficult to get cash to get a commercial mortgage from the off.
Friday Passion - Interesting points and through research I've come across such points, especially about the difficulties of partnership. To conquer this we are going to take steps to ensure we have responsibilities and processes in place. Above that it will be difficult to say how well it work until crunch time. I genuinely don't believe 40k will be difficult to achieve about 5 years, and certainly expect to be earning more than that, with more than 2 techs by 5 years time. Could you expand specifically on why you believe it so difficult to monetise it more than that? It can give me some direction on points to factor in that we may not have considered.
PurpleTurtle - Your thoughts are very much aligned with ours. Relative to above, the intention is not to open a garage to tick along hoping to earn 40k each in 5 years time, scrapping around for any old work. The intention is to open up within a currently vacant niche and take over. We don't necessarily want to break the mould in such as re-inventing the wheel, but we experience more often what that most garages do certain things poorly. This is where we want to place more effort to offer a more rounded experience and own the area we're in.
Friday Passion - Interesting points and through research I've come across such points, especially about the difficulties of partnership. To conquer this we are going to take steps to ensure we have responsibilities and processes in place. Above that it will be difficult to say how well it work until crunch time. I genuinely don't believe 40k will be difficult to achieve about 5 years, and certainly expect to be earning more than that, with more than 2 techs by 5 years time. Could you expand specifically on why you believe it so difficult to monetise it more than that? It can give me some direction on points to factor in that we may not have considered.
PurpleTurtle - Your thoughts are very much aligned with ours. Relative to above, the intention is not to open a garage to tick along hoping to earn 40k each in 5 years time, scrapping around for any old work. The intention is to open up within a currently vacant niche and take over. We don't necessarily want to break the mould in such as re-inventing the wheel, but we experience more often what that most garages do certain things poorly. This is where we want to place more effort to offer a more rounded experience and own the area we're in.
R and S said:
I genuinely don't believe 40k will be difficult to achieve about 5 years, and certainly expect to be earning more than that, with more than 2 techs by 5 years time. Could you expand specifically on why you believe it so difficult to monetise it more than that? It can give me some direction on points to factor in that we may not have considered.
I think what he means is, currently you walk in at clocking in time, start the work you have for the day, take your lunch/ break, work till finishing time, shut down/ switch off and walk out the door. each week you do you 40/50hrs and over the year you get paid £40k for this, plus a pension contribution and get to just book in holidays when you need/ want to take them, can phone in sick if you really need to. life is all good. when your name is on the door, you don’t get to do that. you are potentially going to be putting in 20-30% more hours, but that might not equate to 20-30% more cash. imagine you go away on a nice family holiday and suddenly s
t kicks off the at the garage (ramp breaks down) and suddenly you’re spending a whole day of your nice family holiday on the phone to engineers trying to get someone to come out and fix the bloody ramp. now your wife is annoyed because you’ve ruined a day of the holiday fixing stuff at your work, where you’ve already spend 80hrs the week before trying to do more than normal so you can have time off........ it might seem a small trivial thing, but stuff like that can really grate in running your own business. it doesn’t shut off, you can essentially be on call 24/7!
Here's my few pence worth - from being in the office.
Decide what you want from it, do you want basic work such as servicing, mot's - almost fast fit or do you want specialist stuff that makes you stand out ? Will you be on the spanners yourself ?
Finding people will be the hardest part, well finding good ones. So called specialists trade on there name and people flock to them even if they are no good because they believe main dealers want to rip them off and a normal garage won't be clever enough to fix stuff (far from the truth)
Car park space, you need lots of it, you will end up with dead cars that you will need to push make sure its not up hill. Avoid tyres, there is no money in it and people only want budgets.
Personally i'd concentrate on basic service work and MOT's
Make sure you are withing delivery distance of TPS and how many deliveries per day you will get and a what times, we use TPS for oil as its well priced and comes in a cardboard box, it can be flattened so takes up less space in the bin. Given your looking after VW's you should only need LL3 and Plat Plus 23.
Make sure you have a couple of parts suppliers close by, Euros and possibly a smaller supplier, use Euros for brakes and good quality suspension, the smaller supplier for other bits. Also try Ford for brakes, they are currently rebranding Brembo under Omnicraft, they are trying to do a mixture of TPS and Euros.
We also use Partslink24, its subscription but you can use it for ordering if the dealer is set up but importantly you can get part numbers and pricing for lots of different manufacturers.
As said above, know when to turn work away, prioritise regulars, you know when you are doing a good job and someone is prepared to wait two weeks to get a car in for work when its broken and a non runner.
Decide what you want from it, do you want basic work such as servicing, mot's - almost fast fit or do you want specialist stuff that makes you stand out ? Will you be on the spanners yourself ?
Finding people will be the hardest part, well finding good ones. So called specialists trade on there name and people flock to them even if they are no good because they believe main dealers want to rip them off and a normal garage won't be clever enough to fix stuff (far from the truth)
Car park space, you need lots of it, you will end up with dead cars that you will need to push make sure its not up hill. Avoid tyres, there is no money in it and people only want budgets.
Personally i'd concentrate on basic service work and MOT's
Make sure you are withing delivery distance of TPS and how many deliveries per day you will get and a what times, we use TPS for oil as its well priced and comes in a cardboard box, it can be flattened so takes up less space in the bin. Given your looking after VW's you should only need LL3 and Plat Plus 23.
Make sure you have a couple of parts suppliers close by, Euros and possibly a smaller supplier, use Euros for brakes and good quality suspension, the smaller supplier for other bits. Also try Ford for brakes, they are currently rebranding Brembo under Omnicraft, they are trying to do a mixture of TPS and Euros.
We also use Partslink24, its subscription but you can use it for ordering if the dealer is set up but importantly you can get part numbers and pricing for lots of different manufacturers.
As said above, know when to turn work away, prioritise regulars, you know when you are doing a good job and someone is prepared to wait two weeks to get a car in for work when its broken and a non runner.
Been running my own small idie garage for 30+ years. Started as a one man band and grew it to www.tdi-plc.com
In addition to the great points made above, some things that I would pay attention to:
Make the reception area clean and comfortable. People expect entertainment and free wifi nowadays.
Make the working environment clean and comfortable otherwise you'll end up with staff happy to work in a st hole (which you don't want).
Have robust and clear standard operating procedures.
Read and understand every contract you have to sign.
Buy freehold.
Get a good team around you.
Always negotiate on supply prices.
Differentiate yourselves from your competitors otherwise you'll be competing on prices.
Prepare yourself for difficult customers and for the inevitable disappointments. Rough with the smooth.
Have a vision statement and mission statement, and make all actions relevant to them.
That's all I can think of at the moment, so I wish you the best success with it!
In addition to the great points made above, some things that I would pay attention to:
Make the reception area clean and comfortable. People expect entertainment and free wifi nowadays.
Make the working environment clean and comfortable otherwise you'll end up with staff happy to work in a s
t hole (which you don't want).Have robust and clear standard operating procedures.
Read and understand every contract you have to sign.
Buy freehold.
Get a good team around you.
Always negotiate on supply prices.
Differentiate yourselves from your competitors otherwise you'll be competing on prices.
Prepare yourself for difficult customers and for the inevitable disappointments. Rough with the smooth.
Have a vision statement and mission statement, and make all actions relevant to them.
That's all I can think of at the moment, so I wish you the best success with it!
Steve H said:
Forget servicing at night. Aside from the impossible staff/parts logistics, it’s a premium product and (virtually) nobody will pay a premium rate for it.
I’ve worked for 30 years in the trade going in and out of multiple workshops each day.
Best advice I would give is regarding the premises.
Buy, don’t rent.
It will cause a lot of extra work on setup but you will never regret it. If you rent you’ll find yourself in ten/twenty years time adding up how much you’ve paid out and you’ll realise how it would have left you with a FOC generous pension pot if you’d bought instead.
If you rent "for now", you’ll keep renting, the upheaval of moving will be too much once you’re trading.
Are you sure no one will pay a premium? How do people work around taking their car to the Worksop at the moment. They probably have to take time out of their day. If you can give them that time back surely they will be willing?I’ve worked for 30 years in the trade going in and out of multiple workshops each day.
Best advice I would give is regarding the premises.
Buy, don’t rent.
It will cause a lot of extra work on setup but you will never regret it. If you rent you’ll find yourself in ten/twenty years time adding up how much you’ve paid out and you’ll realise how it would have left you with a FOC generous pension pot if you’d bought instead.
If you rent "for now", you’ll keep renting, the upheaval of moving will be too much once you’re trading.
I certainly would be willing to use such a service and pay more for it.
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