Discussion
It can depend on so many things and without reading the lease any advice is pretty vague. It depends upon the condition of the property when he took it on, the obligations that he signed up to for its repair/upkeep and so on. Some landlords do take the mick if they think that they can get away with it and it is pretty easy to get a figure such as this down to a more managable/realsitic level. Also, if the landlord intends to demolish or substantially redevelop most of this will be wiped out e.g. no point in painting a building that will get pulled down. Its also fairly common to do this in a falling market to back up any fall in rent. Maybe better to fix the dilaps whilst the lease is running as after the end he will have no right of re entry to do the works and it will just be a cash settlement. At the end of the lease your mate is not obliged to give back something substantially different to when he took it on.
Best advice is to tell him to get in the yellow pages or on www.rics.org/RICSservices/Findasurveyor/Public+Zone.htm
and find someone that can help him.
Best advice is to tell him to get in the yellow pages or on www.rics.org/RICSservices/Findasurveyor/Public+Zone.htm
and find someone that can help him.
What a2z says is spot on. Personally, unless he is into heavy industrial processes or has been bouncing the forklift off the blockwork walls, I would doubt that in the course of a 3 year lease in a 3000 sq ft warehouse it would be possible to create £60000 of dilapidations.
On the facts given, it sounds like a definite try on by the landlord and it should be possible to get the figure way down by negotiation.
On the facts given, it sounds like a definite try on by the landlord and it should be possible to get the figure way down by negotiation.
Definitely a case for instructing an RICS surveyor, its not my field though. However I recently dealt with a case of an 8,000sq ft unit, where one side wall needed rebuilding due to subsidence. The Landlords dilaps surveyor struggled to get the cliam upto to £90,000 so to do £60,000 of damage to a 3,000 sq ft unit you are going some.
As stated it might an effort to get a better rent on renewal etc.
If he wants to stay in the unit and is protected by the L & T Act 1954 he must ensure he applies to Court at the appropriate time or he will lose all his rights!
I really fail to understand why so many tenants fail to take professional advice from Surveyors at lease renewal, rent review time. Lots of surveyors will work on a savings based fee, and are the experts in the field.
As stated it might an effort to get a better rent on renewal etc.
If he wants to stay in the unit and is protected by the L & T Act 1954 he must ensure he applies to Court at the appropriate time or he will lose all his rights!
I really fail to understand why so many tenants fail to take professional advice from Surveyors at lease renewal, rent review time. Lots of surveyors will work on a savings based fee, and are the experts in the field.
chrisgr31 said:
I really fail to understand why so many tenants fail to take professional advice from Surveyors at lease renewal, rent review time. Lots of surveyors will work on a savings based fee, and are the experts in the field.
I call them money goggles. When a tenant puts them on he is looking at short term cost saving i.e "why should I pay fees when I can save money by negotiating myself" vs long term financial pain i.e "Oops, I'm not as clever as I think I am so I'll be paying too much rent for the next three or five years"
Did he have a 'Schedule of Condition' prepared when he moved in or is the landlord trying to get him to leave it in a better state than when he moved in?
How long has he been the tenant?
Tell him to get professional advice. Unless he has seriously let the building get into a terrible state, this type of claim gives us Landlords a bad name.
Local press perhaps?
How long has he been the tenant?
Tell him to get professional advice. Unless he has seriously let the building get into a terrible state, this type of claim gives us Landlords a bad name.
Local press perhaps?
Unless he has been a terrible tenant, I don't see how it could deteriorate to such an extent.
He should get professional advice either with a solicitor or surveyor, or maybe even both and there may just be a case for use of an 'independant arbitrator' in the lease, in case both parties can't agree on anything.
Certainly sounds unreasonable to me and I doubt that any court would see the claim as reasonable either - but I'm no expert by any means.
He should get professional advice either with a solicitor or surveyor, or maybe even both and there may just be a case for use of an 'independant arbitrator' in the lease, in case both parties can't agree on anything.
Certainly sounds unreasonable to me and I doubt that any court would see the claim as reasonable either - but I'm no expert by any means.
Three crucial issues:
(1) what does the lease say? Some leases have an obligation to "put and keep" in repair which may give rise to a much bigger claim then is the case with simply "keep" in repair
(2) a bit technical so bear with me. The Landlord and Tenant Act 1927 states that the maximum claim for dilapidations is the reduction in value of the reversion (ie the landlord's interest in the property). This is based on the principle that the landlord has to "mitigate" which means the landlord has to take the remedy that causes the lease loss. If the property is worth the same now as it was when the lease started the answer is usually "no claim"
(3) if the landlord intends to redevelop or carry out a major refurbishment this will override the claim against the tenant
What a tenant needs in this case is a decent property solicitor with a background in commercial landlord and tenant disputes. A tenant's position is quite strong and a good lawyer should be able to hack this claim to pieces
This is not my area (I tend to do the buying and selling) but if you email me off line and let me know the area I could probably track someone down who could deal with it
(1) what does the lease say? Some leases have an obligation to "put and keep" in repair which may give rise to a much bigger claim then is the case with simply "keep" in repair
(2) a bit technical so bear with me. The Landlord and Tenant Act 1927 states that the maximum claim for dilapidations is the reduction in value of the reversion (ie the landlord's interest in the property). This is based on the principle that the landlord has to "mitigate" which means the landlord has to take the remedy that causes the lease loss. If the property is worth the same now as it was when the lease started the answer is usually "no claim"
(3) if the landlord intends to redevelop or carry out a major refurbishment this will override the claim against the tenant
What a tenant needs in this case is a decent property solicitor with a background in commercial landlord and tenant disputes. A tenant's position is quite strong and a good lawyer should be able to hack this claim to pieces
This is not my area (I tend to do the buying and selling) but if you email me off line and let me know the area I could probably track someone down who could deal with it
The 'Schedule of condition' is normally prepared and agreed between Landlord & Tenant at the commencement of any lease and would normally have photos included.
It might list/show things like cracks in walls etc, damaged concrete flooring so that the Tenant would not be expected to put things right which were wrong when he/she moved in to the premises.
It means that the Tenant is only required to correct damage which had taken place during the period of the tenancy.
As I understand it, any deposit should be returned intact, unless there is any rental or damage due to be made good - but as I said before, I am no expert so do take advice if your Landlord tries it on.
It might list/show things like cracks in walls etc, damaged concrete flooring so that the Tenant would not be expected to put things right which were wrong when he/she moved in to the premises.
It means that the Tenant is only required to correct damage which had taken place during the period of the tenancy.
As I understand it, any deposit should be returned intact, unless there is any rental or damage due to be made good - but as I said before, I am no expert so do take advice if your Landlord tries it on.
Speak to a surveyor as well as a solicitor. Do not just rely on the advice of a solicitor unless they get the claim reduced to zero.
Might be a pain to work with both, and does mean two sets of fees but having both on board will save a fortune in the long run.
The solicitor will cover the lega; issues and the surveyor will cover the valuation. Some solicitors believe they can do the valuation, rent negotaition bit but often not particularly good at it.
Might be a pain to work with both, and does mean two sets of fees but having both on board will save a fortune in the long run.
The solicitor will cover the lega; issues and the surveyor will cover the valuation. Some solicitors believe they can do the valuation, rent negotaition bit but often not particularly good at it.
The best thing you, and your fellow tenant, can do is seek Professional advice.
A Chartered Building Surveyor can advise, and act for, you on all the relevant technical (ie building) AND legal aspects to the dilapidation process (a strange system that is a stictly British affair).
Yes, a solicitor can offer advice regarding any legal liabilities, but will be of little use in negociating a fair settlement for any works that maybe required.
By all means employ your solicitor to carry out the function but he will in turn instruct a surveyor and you will end up paying twice.
You will also pay less for a surveyor and (as long as they are a Chartered member of the RICS) have better indemity cover against possible negligence.
The lease may also stipulate that the lessee is responsible for the Landlord's Professional fees as well.
If there is no Schedule of Condition attached to the lease then you are, possibly, in a very weak position to argue any claim. Alternatively, if no SoC was attached it could be interprited that the lease is for Full Repairing and Insurancing of the property.
For this size of claim contact a Chartered Building Surveyor first before your solicitor.
>> Edited by mk1fan on Monday 25th July 16:49
A Chartered Building Surveyor can advise, and act for, you on all the relevant technical (ie building) AND legal aspects to the dilapidation process (a strange system that is a stictly British affair).
Yes, a solicitor can offer advice regarding any legal liabilities, but will be of little use in negociating a fair settlement for any works that maybe required.
By all means employ your solicitor to carry out the function but he will in turn instruct a surveyor and you will end up paying twice.
You will also pay less for a surveyor and (as long as they are a Chartered member of the RICS) have better indemity cover against possible negligence.
The lease may also stipulate that the lessee is responsible for the Landlord's Professional fees as well.
If there is no Schedule of Condition attached to the lease then you are, possibly, in a very weak position to argue any claim. Alternatively, if no SoC was attached it could be interprited that the lease is for Full Repairing and Insurancing of the property.
For this size of claim contact a Chartered Building Surveyor first before your solicitor.
>> Edited by mk1fan on Monday 25th July 16:49
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