Export Challenges - any help appreciated
Discussion
Hi all,
We regularly send samples of a product that we manufacture, on behalf of our customer, to their potential clients- mostly in Europe.
They are low value items, c£6, and are marked as 'sales samples' on the paperwork.
We're encountering delays with customs, which is proving rather a frustration.
We currently use UPS to ship them as they are our customers logistics partner.
Can anyone offer any advice? We've tried simply posting them Royal Mail International but they seem to disappear most of the time, its too unreliable.
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
We regularly send samples of a product that we manufacture, on behalf of our customer, to their potential clients- mostly in Europe.
They are low value items, c£6, and are marked as 'sales samples' on the paperwork.
We're encountering delays with customs, which is proving rather a frustration.
We currently use UPS to ship them as they are our customers logistics partner.
Can anyone offer any advice? We've tried simply posting them Royal Mail International but they seem to disappear most of the time, its too unreliable.
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
This is a consequence of Brexit, and it's unlikely to change, unfortunately. I'm in a similar situation - except that I'm importing from the UK. We import in 2 ways - full lorry loads (which is pretty much running as it did pre-Brexit) - and spare parts (which come via couriers). I'm at the point of giving up on ordering spare parts in the UK owing to the the costs and hassle.
Just to let you know what happens with courier/post shipments over here (in case you don't know) -
1 We get contacted by the post office or courier service to say they are holding a package which has to clear customs. They include a schedule of charges, consisting of an administration charge (usually €15) plus customs charges (which seem to me to be a number they choose completely at random).
2. We then have to choose between paying the charges, appealing against the charges, or refusing delivery.
3. If you pay, you get the package about 5 days later.
To give you a real-life example, a friend sent me 4 £1 pots of Colmans English Mustard in the post. Clearly labelled as a gift and the value declared. I received a demand for charges which added up to over €40. I actually appealed this one (and got my appeal upheld), but it took nearly 6 weeks before I received the mustard.
I don't know what happens with refused parcels - maybe they just bin them - which would explain your "disappearances".
Are the sales samples unsolicited? I certainly wouldn't pay to receive something I hadn't ordered.
Are the samples customer-specific or standard products? If they are standard it may be worth considering sending a large delivery of samples to a company/service within the EU who could then despatch to the potential EU customers (if such a service exists). This way you'll only have one lot of customs/admin charges.
Some courier companies are now offering "all-paid" services which should avoid this problem - but you'll end up paying for all the costs.
Just to let you know what happens with courier/post shipments over here (in case you don't know) -
1 We get contacted by the post office or courier service to say they are holding a package which has to clear customs. They include a schedule of charges, consisting of an administration charge (usually €15) plus customs charges (which seem to me to be a number they choose completely at random).
2. We then have to choose between paying the charges, appealing against the charges, or refusing delivery.
3. If you pay, you get the package about 5 days later.
To give you a real-life example, a friend sent me 4 £1 pots of Colmans English Mustard in the post. Clearly labelled as a gift and the value declared. I received a demand for charges which added up to over €40. I actually appealed this one (and got my appeal upheld), but it took nearly 6 weeks before I received the mustard.
I don't know what happens with refused parcels - maybe they just bin them - which would explain your "disappearances".
Are the sales samples unsolicited? I certainly wouldn't pay to receive something I hadn't ordered.
Are the samples customer-specific or standard products? If they are standard it may be worth considering sending a large delivery of samples to a company/service within the EU who could then despatch to the potential EU customers (if such a service exists). This way you'll only have one lot of customs/admin charges.
Some courier companies are now offering "all-paid" services which should avoid this problem - but you'll end up paying for all the costs.
Thanks for that, it does go some way to explaining.
The samples are telematics devices / insurance trackers, sent, by us, on behalf of our customer to their potential clients as test devices.
They are clearly marked 'sample' and 'not for resale' on the commercial invoice.
I'll look in to shipping through a European partner, as you suggest.
The samples are telematics devices / insurance trackers, sent, by us, on behalf of our customer to their potential clients as test devices.
They are clearly marked 'sample' and 'not for resale' on the commercial invoice.
I'll look in to shipping through a European partner, as you suggest.
I think some receiving countries are worse than others My experience is with Greece.
We had a GPS tracker go faulty which we returned to the UK for repair. Commercial paperwork completed with a nil invoice and clearly stating faulty unit returned under warranty. The UK company received it fine with no charges.
They then tried to send it back to us in Greece. Again a nil commercial invoice, stating it was a warranty repair.
We receive an email from the local courier in Greece, setting out the charges. In this case, from memory, over euros 120. All sorts of charges... Paperwork, customs, VAT at 24% etc etc.
We challenged it but they wouldn't back down so in the end told them to return to sender. The UK supplier never received it obviously.
We are now smuggling again in suitcases on flights, so as to avoid the hassle!!
We had a GPS tracker go faulty which we returned to the UK for repair. Commercial paperwork completed with a nil invoice and clearly stating faulty unit returned under warranty. The UK company received it fine with no charges.
They then tried to send it back to us in Greece. Again a nil commercial invoice, stating it was a warranty repair.
We receive an email from the local courier in Greece, setting out the charges. In this case, from memory, over euros 120. All sorts of charges... Paperwork, customs, VAT at 24% etc etc.
We challenged it but they wouldn't back down so in the end told them to return to sender. The UK supplier never received it obviously.
We are now smuggling again in suitcases on flights, so as to avoid the hassle!!
Your reply - and re-reading your original post - raised another couple of questions.
If it's a fully-functioning GPS tracker is the sales value really only £6? This could be raising a red flag with the customs checks if they think it has a higher value.
If I understand correctly, you're manufacturing for someone else. They should be arranging shipping and invoicing.
In theory, if you're selling into the EU (by this I mean that it's your company name on the invoice), you should appoint an EU representative. If it's another company name on the invoice and shipping papers you can ignore this.
What sort of volume is involved?
If it's a fully-functioning GPS tracker is the sales value really only £6? This could be raising a red flag with the customs checks if they think it has a higher value.
If I understand correctly, you're manufacturing for someone else. They should be arranging shipping and invoicing.
In theory, if you're selling into the EU (by this I mean that it's your company name on the invoice), you should appoint an EU representative. If it's another company name on the invoice and shipping papers you can ignore this.
What sort of volume is involved?
alfabeat said:
We receive an email from the local courier in Greece, setting out the charges. In this case, from memory, over euros 120. All sorts of charges... Paperwork, customs, VAT at 24% etc etc.
We challenged it but they wouldn't back down so in the end told them to return to sender. The UK supplier never received it obviously.
We are now smuggling again in suitcases on flights, so as to avoid the hassle!!
Suspect dodgy Greek courier saw a chance for a quick buck; when bluff was called, threw it away.We challenged it but they wouldn't back down so in the end told them to return to sender. The UK supplier never received it obviously.
We are now smuggling again in suitcases on flights, so as to avoid the hassle!!
We send on behalf of the client and bill to them as part of the service we provide. Sample units are typically ones and twos. £6ish is the actual manufactured cost of basic insurance black boxes.
sunbeam alpine said:
Your reply - and re-reading your original post - raised another couple of questions.
If it's a fully-functioning GPS tracker is the sales value really only £6? This could be raising a red flag with the customs checks if they think it has a higher value.
If I understand correctly, you're manufacturing for someone else. They should be arranging shipping and invoicing.
In theory, if you're selling into the EU (by this I mean that it's your company name on the invoice), you should appoint an EU representative. If it's another company name on the invoice and shipping papers you can ignore this.
What sort of volume is involved?
If it's a fully-functioning GPS tracker is the sales value really only £6? This could be raising a red flag with the customs checks if they think it has a higher value.
If I understand correctly, you're manufacturing for someone else. They should be arranging shipping and invoicing.
In theory, if you're selling into the EU (by this I mean that it's your company name on the invoice), you should appoint an EU representative. If it's another company name on the invoice and shipping papers you can ignore this.
What sort of volume is involved?
RRH said:
We send on behalf of the client and bill to them as part of the service we provide. Sample units are typically ones and twos. £6ish is the actual manufactured cost of basic insurance black boxes.
Then the paperwork accompanying the shipment is actually from your customer?sunbeam alpine said:
Your reply - and re-reading your original post - raised another couple of questions.
If it's a fully-functioning GPS tracker is the sales value really only £6? This could be raising a red flag with the customs checks if they think it has a higher value.
If I understand correctly, you're manufacturing for someone else. They should be arranging shipping and invoicing.
In theory, if you're selling into the EU (by this I mean that it's your company name on the invoice), you should appoint an EU representative. If it's another company name on the invoice and shipping papers you can ignore this.
What sort of volume is involved?
If it's a fully-functioning GPS tracker is the sales value really only £6? This could be raising a red flag with the customs checks if they think it has a higher value.
If I understand correctly, you're manufacturing for someone else. They should be arranging shipping and invoicing.
In theory, if you're selling into the EU (by this I mean that it's your company name on the invoice), you should appoint an EU representative. If it's another company name on the invoice and shipping papers you can ignore this.
What sort of volume is involved?
Are you really producing something in the UK which costs £6 or are you shipping from China (or another cheap producer)? This could be where you're hitting problems - there's been a change in the law to take on the likes of Alibaba, who have been shipping cheap ((untaxed) products for quite a few years.
I have a solution for you - there is a shipping company in kent who take your parcels, drive them to a European country, clear all customs, pay all the VAT and post them to any European country as though they were posted from within Europe.
Fantastic Service - Simon Perkins
www.samos-e.com
07950 450321
Fantastic Service - Simon Perkins
www.samos-e.com
07950 450321
alfabeat said:
We are now smuggling again in suitcases on flights, so as to avoid the hassle!!
This here is Recycling Ricky. A costume character we had made about 10 years ago to promote recycling at schools and events. 
A few years back, we took him to Cyprus where he made an appearance at an EU Fair in Nicosia we were involved in running. I flew into Ercan in the north - no issue. But flew back from Larnaca in the south where officials said that there should have been paperwork for it as it's classified as 'commercial entertainment asset' or something like that. Upshot was that they wanted the thick end of a €1k to 'export it' from Cyprus. Our local partner ended up taking the thing home and we've been repatriating Ricky bit by bit over subsequent trips by stuffing them in baggage. Last week I brough back his left shoe! :-) I'm not quite sure how we'll manage the head other than wear it!
StevieBee said:
alfabeat said:
We are now smuggling again in suitcases on flights, so as to avoid the hassle!!
This here is Recycling Ricky. A costume character we had made about 10 years ago to promote recycling at schools and events...RRH said:
Thanks for that, it does go some way to explaining.
The samples are telematics devices / insurance trackers, sent, by us, on behalf of our customer to their potential clients as test devices.
They are clearly marked 'sample' and 'not for resale' on the commercial invoice.
I'll look in to shipping through a European partner, as you suggest.
The rules about samples are clear. They have to be unsellable. Are the goods themselves indelibly marked “Sample - not for resale”? If not then they are not, in customs law, samples.The samples are telematics devices / insurance trackers, sent, by us, on behalf of our customer to their potential clients as test devices.
They are clearly marked 'sample' and 'not for resale' on the commercial invoice.
I'll look in to shipping through a European partner, as you suggest.
If they’re so cheap, just pay the proper duties.
skwdenyer said:
The rules about samples are clear. They have to be unsellable. Are the goods themselves indelibly marked “Sample - not for resale”? If not then they are not, in customs law, samples.
If they’re so cheap, just pay the proper duties.
Paying the proper duties is not the issue, we are not seeking to avoid paying the taxes, and note your comment on samples being marked as such- although I'm sure that each country would have their own requirements for this.If they’re so cheap, just pay the proper duties.
I am simply trying to ascertain the smoothest way to get these single units to their destination without being held up by customs.
RRH said:
skwdenyer said:
The rules about samples are clear. They have to be unsellable. Are the goods themselves indelibly marked “Sample - not for resale”? If not then they are not, in customs law, samples.
If they’re so cheap, just pay the proper duties.
Paying the proper duties is not the issue, we are not seeking to avoid paying the taxes, and note your comment on samples being marked as such- although I'm sure that each country would have their own requirements for this.If they’re so cheap, just pay the proper duties.
I am simply trying to ascertain the smoothest way to get these single units to their destination without being held up by customs.
RRH said:
skwdenyer said:
The rules about samples are clear. They have to be unsellable. Are the goods themselves indelibly marked “Sample - not for resale”? If not then they are not, in customs law, samples.
If they’re so cheap, just pay the proper duties.
Paying the proper duties is not the issue, we are not seeking to avoid paying the taxes, and note your comment on samples being marked as such- although I'm sure that each country would have their own requirements for this.If they’re so cheap, just pay the proper duties.
I am simply trying to ascertain the smoothest way to get these single units to their destination without being held up by customs.
Samples are defined by the EU customs union. However, if you're manufacturing in the UK, and if you meet the necessary local content rules, then I don't see why you should have to pay any duties whatsoever. VAT is another matter, of course.
RRH said:
sunbeam alpine said:
If hold-ups are your biggest problem, you need to look at a way of distributing them from with the EU.
Yes, I'm rapidly coming to that conclusion.You'd have to make export declarations, or leave that to a courier to handle.
And sorry about the glibness; I've spent most of this year setting up the companies, processes, warehouses, etc. to deal with just this type of problem.
No worries.
Customs, taxes etc are what they are and have to be paid.
The main issue is that I can get a sample to Romania, for example, next day for very little money.. only for it to get held up by their customs for weeks and weeks!
The units are manufactured by us (we’re a CIC / Social Enterprise) and are used by our client for their insurance products. Think black boxes. The cost is low as they use a smartphone for the majority of their function.
Customs, taxes etc are what they are and have to be paid.
The main issue is that I can get a sample to Romania, for example, next day for very little money.. only for it to get held up by their customs for weeks and weeks!
The units are manufactured by us (we’re a CIC / Social Enterprise) and are used by our client for their insurance products. Think black boxes. The cost is low as they use a smartphone for the majority of their function.
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