How to report someone for 'cash in hand' work
Discussion
I dont want to sound like some sour business owner here but basically one of the things we offer as a shop is to offer a 'trade in' service where a customer can either sell their product for cash or trade it in for a newer model and pay the difference.
It works well for us and a lot of our sales go through this method, we make a profit on the new product and then an extra smaller profit on the traded in item.
However, there has been a guy locally to us working under the radar for about 3 years now, he basically buys & sells the same products as we do but from home and he deals in cash only, he's not a business, doesn't have a website etc and just advertises on his FB group page and Gumtree.
We have known about him for a while and just let it slide but when we need sales as much as we do now its frustrating when we have customers coming in to sell/buy a product which we offer them XX, he then offers more and gets the trade or he will sell the product (if he has one) for less than us, by quite a lot.
He's a middle aged guy who's retired early and this is a top up for his income from what I have been told, I know some of the products he has purchased and he's selling them just above what would be trade price or below if its a used item, which is handy for him because he has no overheads of tax to pay like actual companies. There is no way we can compete.
Were not talking £50 a month here either, most of the product range from £1500 - £4000, he is probably selling about 5-8 per month along with some smaller items of around £300 value (5-10 per month). So he is churning out some quite big money really. He has a sales profile on a forum which lists the hundreds of items sold but I presume it will be hard to put a finger on the exact amount of profit with it being cash only plus his items typically come from private purchase/sales too which will be paid for in cash, again making it hard to pinpoint the amount.
There must be someone we can report him to who will take action?
I would estimate we are probably losing out on about £1000-1200 per month from customers going to him instead.
At a guess I would say he is probably profiting about £2500 - £3000 per month.
One of our staff did report him quickly about 1-2 years ago to HMRC for tax evasion but as expected nothing happened.
I might sound like a bitter business owner but its frustrating watching customers leave and go to him when we could of had that sale, we pay tax, VAT, staff, rent etc. He pays nothing.
It works well for us and a lot of our sales go through this method, we make a profit on the new product and then an extra smaller profit on the traded in item.
However, there has been a guy locally to us working under the radar for about 3 years now, he basically buys & sells the same products as we do but from home and he deals in cash only, he's not a business, doesn't have a website etc and just advertises on his FB group page and Gumtree.
We have known about him for a while and just let it slide but when we need sales as much as we do now its frustrating when we have customers coming in to sell/buy a product which we offer them XX, he then offers more and gets the trade or he will sell the product (if he has one) for less than us, by quite a lot.
He's a middle aged guy who's retired early and this is a top up for his income from what I have been told, I know some of the products he has purchased and he's selling them just above what would be trade price or below if its a used item, which is handy for him because he has no overheads of tax to pay like actual companies. There is no way we can compete.
Were not talking £50 a month here either, most of the product range from £1500 - £4000, he is probably selling about 5-8 per month along with some smaller items of around £300 value (5-10 per month). So he is churning out some quite big money really. He has a sales profile on a forum which lists the hundreds of items sold but I presume it will be hard to put a finger on the exact amount of profit with it being cash only plus his items typically come from private purchase/sales too which will be paid for in cash, again making it hard to pinpoint the amount.
There must be someone we can report him to who will take action?
I would estimate we are probably losing out on about £1000-1200 per month from customers going to him instead.
At a guess I would say he is probably profiting about £2500 - £3000 per month.
One of our staff did report him quickly about 1-2 years ago to HMRC for tax evasion but as expected nothing happened.
I might sound like a bitter business owner but its frustrating watching customers leave and go to him when we could of had that sale, we pay tax, VAT, staff, rent etc. He pays nothing.
As others have said you don't know for sure he isn't registered with HMRC?
He has lower over heads as he has no bricks and morter store which it sounds like you do but this is the 21st century, its more and more common.
There are very high end watch dealers working from office blocks rather than High Street stores now because their main business is online and social media.
All that being said, all you can do is report them to HMRC but with the amount of fraud they are trying to deal with around covid loans I imagine this guy is very low down the list of priorities.
He has lower over heads as he has no bricks and morter store which it sounds like you do but this is the 21st century, its more and more common.
There are very high end watch dealers working from office blocks rather than High Street stores now because their main business is online and social media.
All that being said, all you can do is report them to HMRC but with the amount of fraud they are trying to deal with around covid loans I imagine this guy is very low down the list of priorities.
nuyorican said:
Simpo Two said:
Though to be fair 'cash only' sounds a bit dodgy. Why else would you only take cash?
To stop people pulling a chargeback on you. Especially if selling on a cesspit like FB Marketplace...Either way, pre-covid it was hardly rare.
Seriously I think you need to look at this in black and white, its not hard to see what he's doing!
1 - He is not registered on any of the selling sites as a dealer/professional, only private account
2 - Occasionally there are the odd items listed on eBay (lower value parts), under private accounts (2-3 different ones)
3 - He is 100% open that he is not a business and a private seller. You talk to a private seller, he doesn't try to be a shop.
4 - His sales are well above the VAT threshold, yet he is not registered.
5 - Cash only, no buying via PayPal or any other method.
6 - Regardless of overheads, you need to pay VAT and Tax on your profits, if his business model is so great (as mentioned) then you must be crazy as after VAT and tax he would be making a substantial loss. I know the prices he's bought certain items at and you can not sell them for as low as he has and pay tax/vat/general expenses.
He is the same as all the other people you see on eBay buying and selling cars, motorbikes etc etc.
Cash in, cash out, no record of it and nice little earner.
He is not competition (if your trying to say I am shutting down a competitor), we work in probably the biggest retail sector and there is 5-6 similar shops within 15 miles, we all have our own products, niche, repeat customers etc and there is plenty to go around. He is simply buying and selling illegally and NO I dont know if he reports his profits at the end of the year but realistically its very very unlikely as he would be back to earning nothing and probably making a loss.
People need to put them selves in the shoes of a business owner and how frustrating it is when you on the verge of a £3000-4000 deal and they back out because XX down the road will give them more for the product, knowing fine well its under the table.
He is also not a dealer for products, for obvious reasons (not a business).
1 - He is not registered on any of the selling sites as a dealer/professional, only private account
2 - Occasionally there are the odd items listed on eBay (lower value parts), under private accounts (2-3 different ones)
3 - He is 100% open that he is not a business and a private seller. You talk to a private seller, he doesn't try to be a shop.
4 - His sales are well above the VAT threshold, yet he is not registered.
5 - Cash only, no buying via PayPal or any other method.
6 - Regardless of overheads, you need to pay VAT and Tax on your profits, if his business model is so great (as mentioned) then you must be crazy as after VAT and tax he would be making a substantial loss. I know the prices he's bought certain items at and you can not sell them for as low as he has and pay tax/vat/general expenses.
He is the same as all the other people you see on eBay buying and selling cars, motorbikes etc etc.
Cash in, cash out, no record of it and nice little earner.
He is not competition (if your trying to say I am shutting down a competitor), we work in probably the biggest retail sector and there is 5-6 similar shops within 15 miles, we all have our own products, niche, repeat customers etc and there is plenty to go around. He is simply buying and selling illegally and NO I dont know if he reports his profits at the end of the year but realistically its very very unlikely as he would be back to earning nothing and probably making a loss.
People need to put them selves in the shoes of a business owner and how frustrating it is when you on the verge of a £3000-4000 deal and they back out because XX down the road will give them more for the product, knowing fine well its under the table.
He is also not a dealer for products, for obvious reasons (not a business).
Moore517 said:
He is not competition (if your trying to say I am shutting down a competitor), we work in probably the biggest retail sector and there is 5-6 similar shops within 15 miles, we all have our own products, niche, repeat customers etc and there is plenty to go around.
In your opening post you claimed you were losing out on £1000-£1200 per month but now you are saying he is not a competitor and there is enough business to satisfy 6 similar shops 
If it makes you feel better reporting him do it, but in the scenario you describe above where it is not affecting your business apparently, I would concentrate on my business and let somebody else dob him in.
These things can have a habit of biting back.
But you must admit, legal or not, he has a good "business model"
You have at least three options .
1 If you can't beat him, join him.
2 Ignore him as it is not effecting your business..
3. Report him to HMRC. .
Only you know the type of person you are
Edited by Monkeylegend on Saturday 26th February 08:29
Sounds like a car dealer at the prices / number of outlets you are suggesting.
You will always get customers who are willing to buy / sell to the cheapest bidder, and others that want the security blanket of a proper retailer. People will pay more for that, and you probably have a different customer base.
Market yourself in a way that promotes your values, professionalism and security of a proper bricks and mortar business.
You will always get customers who are willing to buy / sell to the cheapest bidder, and others that want the security blanket of a proper retailer. People will pay more for that, and you probably have a different customer base.
Market yourself in a way that promotes your values, professionalism and security of a proper bricks and mortar business.
Moore517 said:
3 - He is 100% open that he is not a business and a private seller. You talk to a private seller, he doesn't try to be a shop.
It sounds to me very much like he is running a business, simply trying to avoid all the legal ramifications that are involved in running a business.Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff