E-Commerce - Minimal Contact Details
Discussion
I found an online supplier for a (somewhat bespoke) consumable.
Seemingly very reasonably priced, UK manufacture, short turnaround.
All good.
Contact details - none (there is an email address listed for returns/questions about Ts & Cs).
Ts & Cs: no formal company name, no phone number, no company number or registered address (blurb mentions directors), no VAT details (checkout adds 20% "taxes").
All bad?
Order value sub £100, but inner voice saying "avoid".
Odd, typical, scam, combination of?
Why would they not list any company details?
They state their site is hosted by Shopify.
Is there any way to check if it's legit?
Seemingly very reasonably priced, UK manufacture, short turnaround.
All good.
Contact details - none (there is an email address listed for returns/questions about Ts & Cs).
Ts & Cs: no formal company name, no phone number, no company number or registered address (blurb mentions directors), no VAT details (checkout adds 20% "taxes").
All bad?
Order value sub £100, but inner voice saying "avoid".
Odd, typical, scam, combination of?
Why would they not list any company details?
They state their site is hosted by Shopify.
Is there any way to check if it's legit?
It doesn't sound like the typical scam site which would likely to be fast moving high value consumer stuff rather than "somewhat bespoke" as you describe it. Perhaps it's someone with a beer money sideline?
I totally understand being wary though. I don't know e-commerce but I expect the Shopify checkout process means your card details wouldn't be directly handled by the site! Are there online reviews for the place, and how long has the domain been registered?
I totally understand being wary though. I don't know e-commerce but I expect the Shopify checkout process means your card details wouldn't be directly handled by the site! Are there online reviews for the place, and how long has the domain been registered?
egomeister said:
It doesn't sound like the typical scam site which would likely to be fast moving high value consumer stuff rather than "somewhat bespoke" as you describe it. Perhaps it's someone with a beer money sideline?
I totally understand being wary though. I don't know e-commerce but I expect the Shopify checkout process means your card details wouldn't be directly handled by the site! Are there online reviews for the place, and how long has the domain been registered?
Yeah, it's an odd one. It doesn't look like a scam site, the Ts & Cs appear a bit copy pasta, important bits missing, like a link to their privacy policy, but could be classed as unpolished. The "business end" is spot on, simple & effective.I totally understand being wary though. I don't know e-commerce but I expect the Shopify checkout process means your card details wouldn't be directly handled by the site! Are there online reviews for the place, and how long has the domain been registered?
I'm really tempted to give them a go. I can use Google Pay, so assume there is some protection there?
As for reviews, I can't even find the original link I clicked from the google search (although there might be some referring data in the resultant address).
No reviews that I can find, not even a link from a search of their apparent name or website name.
Website was registered Jan 21, renewed Jan 22 for 12 months. Surprisingly sparse on detail.
I've sent them a question via their contact form.
Hopefully hasn't gone straight to North Korea.
From what you describe it really does sound to me like a sideline that someone has set up, hence the copy paste T&C's etc. It's evidently not a brand new thing like a scam would be (and the product doesn't sound typical for that), but 18 months isn't long either (given you don't know how recently the site was actually developed).
If I had to guess I think you are more likely to have poor communication or customer service issues than an outright scam if it is a one man band and not their primary focus. No idea if the google pay layer adds any protection, but it goes without saying you should use a credit card if you go ahead.
Probably worth waiting a couple of days to see if you get a reply to the email that might reassure you. Are there any other contact routes you could try - twitter accounts etc?
If I had to guess I think you are more likely to have poor communication or customer service issues than an outright scam if it is a one man band and not their primary focus. No idea if the google pay layer adds any protection, but it goes without saying you should use a credit card if you go ahead.
Probably worth waiting a couple of days to see if you get a reply to the email that might reassure you. Are there any other contact routes you could try - twitter accounts etc?
Shopify's default setup process gives you boilerplate Ts&Cs. Many stores (including that of at least one ecom expert on here) don't change them, don't include the legally-required information, and so on.
Shopify allows a site owner to either use Shopify Pay (their own system) *or* another third-party payment provider.
If you can, pay by PayPal, or use a credit card (not a debit card). And do email them to ask why they don't have the legally-required information displayed.
Shopify allows a site owner to either use Shopify Pay (their own system) *or* another third-party payment provider.
If you can, pay by PayPal, or use a credit card (not a debit card). And do email them to ask why they don't have the legally-required information displayed.
The first thing I look for on any e-commerce site is the legally required info, so registered company name, address and company number.
Even if it’s a legitimate site, if they can’t be arsed to get the basics right, what other short cuts are they taking? Give your hard earned money to a business that actually cares enough so you don’t feel the need to post on a public forum asking for advice as to their legitimacy.
Even if it’s a legitimate site, if they can’t be arsed to get the basics right, what other short cuts are they taking? Give your hard earned money to a business that actually cares enough so you don’t feel the need to post on a public forum asking for advice as to their legitimacy.
Smiler. said:
Contact details - none (there is an email address listed for returns/questions about Ts & Cs).
Ts & Cs: no formal company name, no phone number, no company number or registered address (blurb mentions directors), no VAT details (checkout adds 20% "taxes").
All bad?
Not all bad. If it's a sole trader then they don't have a company, a company number or a registered address. Commonly though sole traders will call themselves directors because it sounds important (and you can be a director of something without being a company director).Ts & Cs: no formal company name, no phone number, no company number or registered address (blurb mentions directors), no VAT details (checkout adds 20% "taxes").
All bad?
But even then I'd have expected a phone number (probably mobile these days) and the 20% tax is odd if there's no VAT number. They might be trying it on, or may not know they have to display a VAT reg number if VAT registered. Or maybe it's an automatic function of some software they use.
A good test might be to e-mail them expressing an interest in their product but say your accounts dept want the VAT number.
Smiler. said:
no company number or registered address (blurb mentions directors)
If they have directors they obviously have a company number too. What possible reason would there be to omit this information other than a scam? Selling stuff online is competitive enough as it is - no way a legit company would deliberately raise red flags in consumer's minds by omitting basic information.
Thanks for the replies.
I think the Ts & Cs are a Shopify standard pattern. Having looked at a couple of other Shopify sites, they were almost identical in layout & content (and in some cases, omissions).
I had an email form their Shopify automated purchase system, stating I had items in a basket and to complete the purchase before they run out of stock.
Again, typical action.
I also had a reply to my online query, the contents of which suggests the author knows his stuff.
I've replied, requesting their company details.
I leaning towards legit, just a bit green.
Does seem some proper schoolboy errors, though.
We'll see.
I think the Ts & Cs are a Shopify standard pattern. Having looked at a couple of other Shopify sites, they were almost identical in layout & content (and in some cases, omissions).
I had an email form their Shopify automated purchase system, stating I had items in a basket and to complete the purchase before they run out of stock.
Again, typical action.
I also had a reply to my online query, the contents of which suggests the author knows his stuff.
I've replied, requesting their company details.
I leaning towards legit, just a bit green.
Does seem some proper schoolboy errors, though.
We'll see.
Smiler. said:
I've replied, requesting their company details.
I leaning towards legit, just a bit green.
Does seem some proper schoolboy errors, though.
We'll see.
As said, there may not be a company. It might be one bloke, a dining table and a garage of stock. And there's nothing wrong with that. You don't need a company to trade.I leaning towards legit, just a bit green.
Does seem some proper schoolboy errors, though.
We'll see.
Once upon a time you could ring people up and have a chat to sound them out. But people don't seem to do that any more.
Simpo Two said:
Smiler. said:
I've replied, requesting their company details.
I leaning towards legit, just a bit green.
Does seem some proper schoolboy errors, though.
We'll see.
As said, there may not be a company. It might be one bloke, a dining table and a garage of stock. And there's nothing wrong with that. You don't need a company to trade.I leaning towards legit, just a bit green.
Does seem some proper schoolboy errors, though.
We'll see.
Simpo Two said:
Once upon a time you could ring people up and have a chat to sound them out. But people don't seem to do that any more.
Difficult to phone a business that doesn't put its phone number on its website as stated in the OP.48k said:
A sole trader is still a business. Being a sole trader doesn't excuse you from the legal requirement under the Companies Act for the business website to display company name, email address and company address. Plus VAT details if registered for VAT.
He may not know that. And let's not forget that a company is a separate legal entity. If you are a sole trader you do not have a company, a company name or a company address (even though some like to call themselves companies and directors 'cos it sounds flash). You have a business address and perhaps a trading name.48k said:
Simpo Two said:
Once upon a time you could ring people up and have a chat to sound them out. But people don't seem to do that any more.
Difficult to phone a business that doesn't put its phone number on its website as stated in the OP.Simpo Two said:
48k said:
A sole trader is still a business. Being a sole trader doesn't excuse you from the legal requirement under the Companies Act for the business website to display company name, email address and company address. Plus VAT details if registered for VAT.
He may not know that. And let's not forget that a company is a separate legal entity. If you are a sole trader you do not have a company, a company name or a company address (even though some like to call themselves companies and directors 'cos it sounds flash). You have a business address and perhaps a trading name.48k said:
A sole trader is still a business. Being a sole trader doesn't excuse you from the legal requirement under the Companies Act for the business website to display company name, email address and company address. Plus VAT details if registered for VAT.
Yes it does. The disclosure requirements are different for a registered company vs an individual (sole trader) or partnership.RM said:
48k said:
A sole trader is still a business. Being a sole trader doesn't excuse you from the legal requirement under the Companies Act for the business website to display company name, email address and company address. Plus VAT details if registered for VAT.
Yes it does. The disclosure requirements are different for a registered company vs an individual (sole trader) or partnership.A sole trader needs to show company name, email address and company address. Plus VAT details if registered for VAT.
For a sole trader, company name = business name/ trading name.
For a sole trader, company address = business address / trading address / address you registered with HMRC It can be a PO box or virtual office address if your trading address is your home address and you don't want to display it on the website.
Basically, if you run an ecommerce website, regardless of whether you are a sole trader or a Ltd co, you are obligated to display certain information so that your customers and suppliers know who they are dealing with.
48k said:
RM said:
48k said:
A sole trader is still a business. Being a sole trader doesn't excuse you from the legal requirement under the Companies Act for the business website to display company name, email address and company address. Plus VAT details if registered for VAT.
Yes it does. The disclosure requirements are different for a registered company vs an individual (sole trader) or partnership.A sole trader needs to show company name, email address and company address. Plus VAT details if registered for VAT.
For a sole trader, company name = business name/ trading name.
For a sole trader, company address = business address / trading address / address you registered with HMRC. The law refers to it as "an address at which the business can be contacted and have legal documents formally served on it,". It can be a PO box or virtual office address if your trading address is your home address and you don't want to display it on the website.
Companies Act 2006 Chapter 2 Disclosure required in case of individual or partnership said:
1202 Disclosure required: business documents etc
(1) A person to whom this Chapter applies must state the information required by this Chapter, in legible characters, on all—
(a) business letters,
(b) written orders for goods or services to be supplied to the business,
(c) invoices and receipts issued in the course of the business, and
(d) written demands for payment of debts arising in the course of the business.
See https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/part/...
Note what is missing? Any mention of a website. The website is mentioned in the applicable section for a registered company (and a LLP by a later change).(1) A person to whom this Chapter applies must state the information required by this Chapter, in legible characters, on all—
(a) business letters,
(b) written orders for goods or services to be supplied to the business,
(c) invoices and receipts issued in the course of the business, and
(d) written demands for payment of debts arising in the course of the business.
See https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/part/...
Unless there is further legislation that you are referring to (and there may well be)? I'm happy to be proved wrong by further legislation, I have looked at this a few times over the years and never found an answer.
RM said:
48k said:
RM said:
48k said:
A sole trader is still a business. Being a sole trader doesn't excuse you from the legal requirement under the Companies Act for the business website to display company name, email address and company address. Plus VAT details if registered for VAT.
Yes it does. The disclosure requirements are different for a registered company vs an individual (sole trader) or partnership.A sole trader needs to show company name, email address and company address. Plus VAT details if registered for VAT.
For a sole trader, company name = business name/ trading name.
For a sole trader, company address = business address / trading address / address you registered with HMRC. The law refers to it as "an address at which the business can be contacted and have legal documents formally served on it,". It can be a PO box or virtual office address if your trading address is your home address and you don't want to display it on the website.
Companies Act 2006 Chapter 2 Disclosure required in case of individual or partnership said:
1202 Disclosure required: business documents etc
(1) A person to whom this Chapter applies must state the information required by this Chapter, in legible characters, on all—
(a) business letters,
(b) written orders for goods or services to be supplied to the business,
(c) invoices and receipts issued in the course of the business, and
(d) written demands for payment of debts arising in the course of the business.
See https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/part/...
Note what is missing? Any mention of a website. The website is mentioned in the applicable section for a registered company (and a LLP by a later change).(1) A person to whom this Chapter applies must state the information required by this Chapter, in legible characters, on all—
(a) business letters,
(b) written orders for goods or services to be supplied to the business,
(c) invoices and receipts issued in the course of the business, and
(d) written demands for payment of debts arising in the course of the business.
See https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/part/...
Unless there is further legislation that you are referring to (and there may well be)? I'm happy to be proved wrong by further legislation, I have looked at this a few times over the years and never found an answer.
And all of this is even more moot now that the OP's issue is resolved. So I shan't derail the thread any further.
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