Energy ombudsman, larger consumer?

[D7PNY]

I have a long standing dispute with our previous energy supplier and was looking to refer to ombudsman as have hit 'computer says no' with them.

However, ombudsman service has come back stating the following:

"Ombudsman Services can only help businesses that use less than 293,000 kWh of gas or 100,000 kWh of electricity a year, or have fewer than ten employees (or their full time equivalent) and an annual turnover and balance sheet not exceeding 2 million euros."

We consume around 300,000 kWh per annum and the turnover/Balances sheet criteria also exclude us it seems.

The background to our complaint is as follows:
- Contract term was coming to an end so sought new contract prices ahead of expiry
- Could not get supplier to provide prices despite several attempts abd this resulted in us going passed expiry date
- Sought alternative prices and advised supplier that I could not wait any longer and if they didn't return new prices then I would be forced to go elsewhere
- No prices forthcoming so gave notice to move our supply
- Obviously a period of delay for switch so supplier charged us out of contract rates
- Complaint submitted and supplier admitted that had I signed with them, they would've credited despite the additional charges being caused by me actually trying to stay with them and giving up
- Supplier claims to have tried to call at the time and admitted some fault but offered only £100 credit (we're talking c£12k of additional charges here so a bit of a smash and grab attempt I feel). They also claim new rates were sent out ahead of renewal but we never received these.
- We paid the bills up to the value of what we felt fair (based on our previous rates) to show our intentions rather than simply not paying
-We have maintained our stance that fault on both sides does not amount to £100 credit and have without prejudice offered to come to a sensible agreement rather than taking it to the solicitors but they are maintaining the balance is due and at a complete stalemate

Anyone offer any pointers? Hold firm and tell them to b#gger off? Send them a formal final without prejudice offer to settle (meet in the middle) or we'll see them in court?

Last thing I want to do is line the pockets of our solicitor but unclear how far the will push things and I was hoping for a sensible resolution?

They have only offered £100 and have since offered to remove the additional charges they added for 'non payment' since the dispute started.

Thanks,

Dave

[Mr Overheads]

1) Welcome to the world of terrible energy suppliers. It's really hard at the moment to get most of them to quote for new business or for renewals.

2) If old rate was say 15p, new rate is say 32p and OOC rate is 40p, then offer to pay the 32p rate for the period you were out of contract. That seems fair.

3) Or is they can produce a copy of the renewal letter they sent then offer the pence rate that was in that letter.

[D7PNY]

Mr Overheads said:

1) Welcome to the world of terrible energy suppliers. It's really hard at the moment to get most of them to quote for new business or for renewals.

2) If old rate was say 15p, new rate is say 32p and OOC rate is 40p, then offer to pay the 32p rate for the period you were out of contract. That seems fair.

3) Or is they can produce a copy of the renewal letter they sent then offer the pence rate that was in that letter.

Thanks, good idea re. the renewal letter rate. Although as the saga dates back to last year the contract rates won't be wildly different but the out of contract rate was. I did try and appear reasonable and show my intentions by paying the outstanding usage at the previous contract rate so I was at least seen to be paying the bills and just leave the disputed balance.

It appears all reason is out the window when it comes to them though unfortunately,

[skwdenyer]

D7PNY said:

I have a long standing dispute with our previous energy supplier and was looking to refer to ombudsman as have hit 'computer says no' with them.

However, ombudsman service has come back stating the following:

"Ombudsman Services can only help businesses that use less than 293,000 kWh of gas or 100,000 kWh of electricity a year, or have fewer than ten employees (or their full time equivalent) and an annual turnover and balance sheet not exceeding 2 million euros."

We consume around 300,000 kWh per annum and the turnover/Balances sheet criteria also exclude us it seems.

The background to our complaint is as follows:
- Contract term was coming to an end so sought new contract prices ahead of expiry
- Could not get supplier to provide prices despite several attempts abd this resulted in us going passed expiry date
- Sought alternative prices and advised supplier that I could not wait any longer and if they didn't return new prices then I would be forced to go elsewhere
- No prices forthcoming so gave notice to move our supply
- Obviously a period of delay for switch so supplier charged us out of contract rates
- Complaint submitted and supplier admitted that had I signed with them, they would've credited despite the additional charges being caused by me actually trying to stay with them and giving up
- Supplier claims to have tried to call at the time and admitted some fault but offered only £100 credit (we're talking c£12k of additional charges here so a bit of a smash and grab attempt I feel). They also claim new rates were sent out ahead of renewal but we never received these.
- We paid the bills up to the value of what we felt fair (based on our previous rates) to show our intentions rather than simply not paying
-We have maintained our stance that fault on both sides does not amount to £100 credit and have without prejudice offered to come to a sensible agreement rather than taking it to the solicitors but they are maintaining the balance is due and at a complete stalemate

Anyone offer any pointers? Hold firm and tell them to b#gger off? Send them a formal final without prejudice offer to settle (meet in the middle) or we'll see them in court?

Last thing I want to do is line the pockets of our solicitor but unclear how far the will push things and I was hoping for a sensible resolution?

They have only offered £100 and have since offered to remove the additional charges they added for 'non payment' since the dispute started.

Thanks,

Dave

Have you now changed suppliers?

If so (i.e. they can't threaten disconnection), one strategy is to pay enough to get it down below £10k, at which point it becomes probably a Small Claims track case if they sue you for it. They may be more inclined to settle if they're going to be on the hook for the legal costs. At that point, your worst case downside is going to be the amount they claim you owe (as opposed to open-ended legal costs if it goes to court and you lose). Obv your own legal costs would cost you something, but you might not need much / any legal help on this. If it goes legal, you should consider asking for alternative dispute resolution and go for some form or arbitration.

The problem with this case is it's really a point of principle. £12k is not nothing, far from it, but how much time are you prepared to spend fighting it? Whereas if you pay £2.5k now (say), you can possibly settle in the middle.

[D7PNY]

skwdenyer said:

Have you now changed suppliers?

If so (i.e. they can't threaten disconnection), one strategy is to pay enough to get it down below £10k, at which point it becomes probably a Small Claims track case if they sue you for it. They may be more inclined to settle if they're going to be on the hook for the legal costs. At that point, your worst case downside is going to be the amount they claim you owe (as opposed to open-ended legal costs if it goes to court and you lose). Obv your own legal costs would cost you something, but you might not need much / any legal help on this. If it goes legal, you should consider asking for alternative dispute resolution and go for some form or arbitration.

The problem with this case is it's really a point of principle. £12k is not nothing, far from it, but how much time are you prepared to spend fighting it? Whereas if you pay £2.5k now (say), you can possibly settle in the middle.

Sorry, didnt get notification of the reply.

Yeah, I changed supplier after constant chases to them for new rates. I finally gave them a deadline stating that if I didn't have me new rate by that point then I would have to accept alternative and issue notice.

The charges in question are in the main the period for which it took to move over to the new supplier.

Finally managed to reach agreement last week though by proposing they restate the bills at the rate they were offering at renewal was a fair compromise so thanks for the idea above.

After months of backwards and forwards they finally accepted this. To which I then said they need to remove charges for none payment as I hadn't failed to pay my bills throughout. End result is £13.5k down to £8.3k so whilst I still grudge this is is more of a point of principle as you say so taking that as a win and putting it behind me.

[skwdenyer]

D7PNY said:

Sorry, didnt get notification of the reply.

Yeah, I changed supplier after constant chases to them for new rates. I finally gave them a deadline stating that if I didn't have me new rate by that point then I would have to accept alternative and issue notice.

The charges in question are in the main the period for which it took to move over to the new supplier.

Finally managed to reach agreement last week though by proposing they restate the bills at the rate they were offering at renewal was a fair compromise so thanks for the idea above.

After months of backwards and forwards they finally accepted this. To which I then said they need to remove charges for none payment as I hadn't failed to pay my bills throughout. End result is £13.5k down to £8.3k so whilst I still grudge this is is more of a point of principle as you say so taking that as a win and putting it behind me.

Glad to hear you've got a sensible outcome. I've little doubt somebody on the other side will have done a similar calculation. Once the big stick of disconnection is off the table, commercial realities tend to take over.