Trigger happy HMRC? Or just me?

[StevieBee]

I run a simple and tight ship. Pay all taxes due on time, file everything needed ahead of time, etc.

Yet, I seem to be getting no end of late filing notices, penalty charges for late payment and similar. All of which get successfully rebuffed. I could perhaps understand if I was sailing close to the wind. time wise, but I never do. Been like this for the past year.

Anyone else getting this or just me?

[Mr_Webb]

Yes, HMRC's systems for allocating payments to the correct account are woeful at times. It's when you have to keep writing to appeal the surcharge or penalty that gets annoying

[55palfers]

I wrote to them early April - yet to have a reply.....

Shame there wasn't a reciprocal "late response" penalty.

[FatboyKim]

For what, PAYE? VAT?

You can appeal PAYE (and CIS) penalties online nowadays, and in bulk.

The VAT penalty/surcharge structure is changing to a quite complicated 'points'-based system like a driving licence. It was originally due to be rolled out from 01 April 2022, but will likely be delayed by at least another year now.

[StevieBee]

FatboyKim said:

For what, PAYE? VAT?

You can appeal PAYE (and CIS) penalties online nowadays, and in bulk.

Both - and CT and Accounts Filing.

The issue I have its the time needed to appeal a claim that shouldn't have been made in the first place.

[FatboyKim]

Have you done something daft like filing/paying with the incorrect UTR number? Seems odd.

It's easy enough to cancel HMRC penalties, but if you're filing returns and submissions in good time, something is wrong somewhere.

[StevieBee]

FatboyKim said:

Have you done something daft like filing/paying with the incorrect UTR number? Seems odd.

It's easy enough to cancel HMRC penalties, but if you're filing returns and submissions in good time, something is wrong somewhere.

It's not impossible but unlikely.

[Globs]

Has anyone found the legislation that requires us to pay tax?

For example, 'self assessment' forms a contract and an oath if you fill one in.
So you can get punished for inaccuracy, mistakes and late filing.

But if you don't file one at all... what legislative act can be used?

[FatboyKim]

Globs said:

Has anyone found the legislation that requires us to pay tax?

For example, 'self assessment' forms a contract and an oath if you fill one in.
So you can get punished for inaccuracy, mistakes and late filing.

But if you don't file one at all... what legislative act can be used?

Has the sun got to you?

Just phone or write to HMRC and ask. Let us know their response though, I could do with a laugh.

[Dingu]

Globs said:

Has anyone found the legislation that requires us to pay tax?

For example, 'self assessment' forms a contract and an oath if you fill one in.
So you can get punished for inaccuracy, mistakes and late filing.

But if you don't file one at all... what legislative act can be used?

[Amateurish]

Globs said:

Has anyone found the legislation that requires us to pay tax?

For example, 'self assessment' forms a contract and an oath if you fill one in.
So you can get punished for inaccuracy, mistakes and late filing.

But if you don't file one at all... what legislative act can be used?

I know the answer to this one.

If you shout "I am a Freeman of the Land" while holding a copy of Magna Carta, then you don't have to pay any tax.

[Newc]

Amateurish said:

Globs said:

Has anyone found the legislation that requires us to pay tax?

For example, 'self assessment' forms a contract and an oath if you fill one in.
So you can get punished for inaccuracy, mistakes and late filing.

But if you don't file one at all... what legislative act can be used?

I know the answer to this one.

If you shout "I am a Freeman of the Land" while holding a copy of Magna Carta, then you don't have to pay any tax.

Aha, but then the other side comes back at you wearing a Ring Of Power And Compulsion, and also waves the Income Tax Act 1799 (as amended).

[Globs]

FatboyKim said:

Has the sun got to you?

Just phone or write to HMRC and ask. Let us know their response though, I could do with a laugh.

People have phoned.
And studied their website.

No act of parliament is ever referenced, or given.
Why don't you look? It's easy.
https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns


PAYE & Income tax have no enabling legislation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcxcLBIWGU

here are some jokers phoning HMRC, to ask them what act applies:
https://t.me/jamiefreeman/11892
https://t.me/jamiefreeman/11893

There are many.
Do you understand why 'the budget' is passed every year?

[Amateurish]

I love a bit of Freeman woo nonsense.

It's like our own eccentric brand of Q Anon.

[deggles]

StevieBee said:

FatboyKim said:

Have you done something daft like filing/paying with the incorrect UTR number? Seems odd.

It's easy enough to cancel HMRC penalties, but if you're filing returns and submissions in good time, something is wrong somewhere.

It's not impossible but unlikely.

If it's Corporation Tax, the reference changes every year (suffixed with the accounting period) so if you use the same payment details as previous years the payment gets mis-allocated. Been there, got the tshirt!

[db10]

Globs said:

People have phoned.
And studied their website.

No act of parliament is ever referenced, or given.
Why don't you look? It's easy.
https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns


PAYE & Income tax have no enabling legislation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcxcLBIWGU

here are some jokers phoning HMRC, to ask them what act applies:
https://t.me/jamiefreeman/11892
https://t.me/jamiefreeman/11893

There are many.
Do you understand why 'the budget' is passed every year?

assuming you are talking about self employed trading income its chapter 2 of the Income tax Act 2005 that you are after:

"Chapter 2

Income tax is charged on the profits of a trade, profession or vocation."

im not sure it can be any clearer


Territorial scope of charge to tax
(1)Profits of a trade arising to a UK resident are chargeable to tax under this Chapter wherever the trade is carried on.
[F1(1A)Profits of a trade of dealing in or developing UK land arising to a non-UK resident are chargeable to tax under this Chapter wherever the trade is carried on.]
(2)Profits of a trade [F2other than a trade of dealing in or developing UK land] arising to a non-UK resident are chargeable to tax under this Chapter only if they arise—
(a)from a trade carried on wholly in the United Kingdom, or
(b)in the case of a trade carried on partly in the United Kingdom and partly elsewhere, from the part of the trade carried on in the United Kingdom.

Income charged
(1)Tax is charged under this Chapter on the full amount of the profits of the tax year.
(2)For this purpose the profits of a tax year are the profits of the basis period for the tax year [F5(including amounts treated as profits of the tax year under section 23E(1))].

[Drawweight]

Globs said:

People have phoned.
And studied their website.

No act of parliament is ever referenced, or given.
Why don't you look? It's easy.
https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns


PAYE & Income tax have no enabling legislation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcxcLBIWGU

here are some jokers phoning HMRC, to ask them what act applies:
https://t.me/jamiefreeman/11892
https://t.me/jamiefreeman/11893

There are many.
Do you understand why 'the budget' is passed every year?

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Warning…troll alert.

Either that or he really believes everything he’s posting.

Difficult to decide actually.

[FatboyKim]

Globs said:

People have phoned.
And studied their website.

No act of parliament is ever referenced, or given.
Why don't you look? It's easy.
https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns


PAYE & Income tax have no enabling legislation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcxcLBIWGU

here are some jokers phoning HMRC, to ask them what act applies:
https://t.me/jamiefreeman/11892
https://t.me/jamiefreeman/11893

There are many.

Because I'm not a knuckle-dragging mouth breather.

Globs said:

Do you understand why 'the budget' is passed every year?

Oh go on then, I'll bite. Why is the Budget passed each year?

[StevieBee]

Drawweight said:

Globs said:

People have phoned.
And studied their website.

No act of parliament is ever referenced, or given.
Why don't you look? It's easy.
https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns


PAYE & Income tax have no enabling legislation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcxcLBIWGU

here are some jokers phoning HMRC, to ask them what act applies:
https://t.me/jamiefreeman/11892
https://t.me/jamiefreeman/11893

There are many.
Do you understand why 'the budget' is passed every year?

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Warning…troll alert.

Either that or he really believes everything he’s posting.

Difficult to decide actually.

I 'think' I know where Globs is coming from.

There is no specific overarching legislation that governs the collection of taxes but a Statute - similar but different in that a Statute applies to Society. Society is determined by a number of people joined by mutual consent. Therefore, if you choose not to consent to be part of society there is no law that applies to you in relation to the payment of tax.

However, the point is moot because the only way in which you can acquire any revenue (taxable revenue) is to engage with society and so by default, you consent to being part of that society.

Linked to this (although I cannot recall exactly why) is why all correspondence from HMRC is addressed in CAPITAL LETTERS.

[FatboyKim]

StevieBee said:

I 'think' I know where Globs is coming from.

There is no specific overarching legislation that governs the collection of taxes but a Statute - similar but different in that a Statute applies to Society. Society is determined by a number of people joined by mutual consent. Therefore, if you choose not to consent to be part of society there is no law that applies to you in relation to the payment of tax.

However, the point is moot because the only way in which you can acquire any revenue (taxable revenue) is to engage with society and so by default, you consent to being part of that society.

Linked to this (although I cannot recall exactly why) is why all correspondence from HMRC is addressed in CAPITAL LETTERS.

Oh my God, it's catching

I can't think of any legal or legislative reason of why capital letters in any addresses and letters makes any difference to anything, other than making Royal Mail sorting more efficient and accurate. But I'm genuinely always happy to be put right and learn something.

Of the maybe 100 or so HMRC letters I look at each week, the 'To:' addresses are indeed in capital letters when they are generic tax reminder letters or from the main departments, unless they are sent from a specialist department or being sent by a particular case worker / officer about something detailed, then the address is in lower case. Odd.

deggles said:

If it's Corporation Tax, the reference changes every year (suffixed with the accounting period) so if you use the same payment details as previous years the payment gets mis-allocated. Been there, got the tshirt!

Easily done, but easy to rectify. Using the incorrect UTR number all together though, that's a little trickier to fix.