Commercial Landlord Legal Advice
Discussion
Can someone just point me in the right direction with this?
I am Treasurer for a charitable playgroup that rents the local Boy's club during the day. The Boy's club is also a committee-run charity. We pay £70 inclusive rent a week during term time and although we have been there nearly 6 years, I don't believe we have a formal contract with the Boy's club (I am going through mountains of paperwork as we speak).
The club is now having its sportshall next door refitted, which has lead to to Care Standards Inspectorate telling us we can't open, primarily becuase one fire escape has been blocked during work and access to the other entrances are down an unsafe slope. There are other issues with lack of heating and hot water, but they can be overcome.
The Boy's club hasn't been completely honest with us with regards to time frames for completion of work and doesn't seem to understand the regulations the building has to meet to allow us to open (such as having safe access). It is only now, one day before term starts that we have been told the whole story.
We are looking at around 4-8 weeks of closure during a time when we have no income and I have three staff to pay. I can just about cover the wages for a month but that's all. The money I would use to pay the wages is actually fundraising money that should go on new equipment.
My question is this - Am I able to force the club to sort out access as a matter of urgency, even if we don't have a formal contract? They have a load of builders who would only take a day or two to get us back open. Also am I able to sue them for loss of earnings?
Any advice is gratefully received.
I am Treasurer for a charitable playgroup that rents the local Boy's club during the day. The Boy's club is also a committee-run charity. We pay £70 inclusive rent a week during term time and although we have been there nearly 6 years, I don't believe we have a formal contract with the Boy's club (I am going through mountains of paperwork as we speak).
The club is now having its sportshall next door refitted, which has lead to to Care Standards Inspectorate telling us we can't open, primarily becuase one fire escape has been blocked during work and access to the other entrances are down an unsafe slope. There are other issues with lack of heating and hot water, but they can be overcome.
The Boy's club hasn't been completely honest with us with regards to time frames for completion of work and doesn't seem to understand the regulations the building has to meet to allow us to open (such as having safe access). It is only now, one day before term starts that we have been told the whole story.
We are looking at around 4-8 weeks of closure during a time when we have no income and I have three staff to pay. I can just about cover the wages for a month but that's all. The money I would use to pay the wages is actually fundraising money that should go on new equipment.
My question is this - Am I able to force the club to sort out access as a matter of urgency, even if we don't have a formal contract? They have a load of builders who would only take a day or two to get us back open. Also am I able to sue them for loss of earnings?
Any advice is gratefully received.
Re the legal stuff, this isn't my area so can't help unfortunately.
However, re the other stuff, why not tell them what your problem is and ask if they could deal with the access issue as a matter of urgency (rather than try and force them). Is there any reason why they shouldn't be amenable to it?
I've been involved in a lot of youth groups before, and I have to say that if you even attempted to sue them they would probably (a) be gutted because it would drain their budget completely and likely result in them closing down, hence you lose your premises anyway, or (b) if they don't close down, they will kick you out at the first opportunity they get.
I imagine they like having the income and you like having the facilities to use, so surely a compromise can be reached.
However, re the other stuff, why not tell them what your problem is and ask if they could deal with the access issue as a matter of urgency (rather than try and force them). Is there any reason why they shouldn't be amenable to it?
I've been involved in a lot of youth groups before, and I have to say that if you even attempted to sue them they would probably (a) be gutted because it would drain their budget completely and likely result in them closing down, hence you lose your premises anyway, or (b) if they don't close down, they will kick you out at the first opportunity they get.
I imagine they like having the income and you like having the facilities to use, so surely a compromise can be reached.
If monies have been donated to your organisation for the purchase of capital equipment, you might find that it is illegal for you top spend it on overheads, such as wages.
Check out the provisions of The Charities Act regarding designated funds and non-designated funds and see if the restrictions on use of restricted donations applies in these circumstances.
I would expect that you might have to close down your operation until the matter is rectified and put your staff on unpaid leave. You should , of course, withold rents for the period you are closed which should act as a spur to the landlord to sort the problem out.
Alternatively, you could start looking for another venue.
Whatever you do, ensure you get a proper tenancy agreement sorted out.
Check out the provisions of The Charities Act regarding designated funds and non-designated funds and see if the restrictions on use of restricted donations applies in these circumstances.
I would expect that you might have to close down your operation until the matter is rectified and put your staff on unpaid leave. You should , of course, withold rents for the period you are closed which should act as a spur to the landlord to sort the problem out.
Alternatively, you could start looking for another venue.
Whatever you do, ensure you get a proper tenancy agreement sorted out.
Hi Eric,
Thanks for that. The monies currently in the coffers are non-assigned fundraising done by us over the past year, so we could spend them on anything. Luckily used up all of our lottery grant on legitimate spending!
Big meeting tomorrow with builders & Boy's club committee. I'm going to be fair but assertive and see where it gets me.
Thanks for that. The monies currently in the coffers are non-assigned fundraising done by us over the past year, so we could spend them on anything. Luckily used up all of our lottery grant on legitimate spending!
Big meeting tomorrow with builders & Boy's club committee. I'm going to be fair but assertive and see where it gets me.
There is some doubt about whether you have a formal tenancy or just a licence but if you want to throw some big words at them mention "derogation from grant".
What this means is that if you are given use of facilities the person who has granted that use cannot then do something which prevents it unless they have expressly reserved the right to do so. The classic case is granting a right of way and then putting a locked gate in the way.
Without establishing a lot more detail it is not clear whether this actually applies in your case but it provides a starting point - the fact that you have had access to the fire escape and that it is essential to use of the premises means that the owner cannot have it blocked up without your agreement.
See if they come up with anything to counter that.
Good luck
What this means is that if you are given use of facilities the person who has granted that use cannot then do something which prevents it unless they have expressly reserved the right to do so. The classic case is granting a right of way and then putting a locked gate in the way.
Without establishing a lot more detail it is not clear whether this actually applies in your case but it provides a starting point - the fact that you have had access to the fire escape and that it is essential to use of the premises means that the owner cannot have it blocked up without your agreement.
See if they come up with anything to counter that.
Good luck
By now you will have had your meeting so it may be irrelevant. However are you the only user of this building, or does the Boys Club use it at weekends, evenings in the school holidays?
Running anything these days is become a nightmare as officialdom seems intent on making it as difficult as possible!
Running anything these days is become a nightmare as officialdom seems intent on making it as difficult as possible!
They are actually being quite accommodating, but the builders are being absolute stars - they are telling the council (who are overseeing the lottery grant they are spending doing up the sports hall) that they need to install a proper ramped access for us and additional fencing pronto. Dave, the main man on site has even said he'd stay on after time for free to do it if the council said no.
We hope to be open in another week, thank gawd. Now all I have to do is contend with my layabout staff who want to do bugger all for another week and expect full pay. MY ARSE!
Thanks for all your input.
We hope to be open in another week, thank gawd. Now all I have to do is contend with my layabout staff who want to do bugger all for another week and expect full pay. MY ARSE!
Thanks for all your input.
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