Customer moaning about poor welding
Discussion
Customer says "thickness of the weld should equate to the thickest part of the materials being welded".
(Customer does NOT necessarily know what he's talking about).
We have a very experienced TIG welding guy, did this job (pic) on stainless steel. Customer says not good enough, thinks the welds are going to fracture.
I have to go and see this customer and hopefully set him straight, but I don't know much about welding TBH, any thoughts? A quick google suggests thickness of good welds is related a formula that's a bit more involved than "thickness of material".
It's a quite heavy duty application (low frequency vibrations), and has to be stainless.
Edited with pic oops
Cheers
(Customer does NOT necessarily know what he's talking about).
We have a very experienced TIG welding guy, did this job (pic) on stainless steel. Customer says not good enough, thinks the welds are going to fracture.
I have to go and see this customer and hopefully set him straight, but I don't know much about welding TBH, any thoughts? A quick google suggests thickness of good welds is related a formula that's a bit more involved than "thickness of material".
It's a quite heavy duty application (low frequency vibrations), and has to be stainless.
Edited with pic oops
Cheers
Edited by Hammersia on Wednesday 20th December 10:22
Just wondering - if you don't know that much about welding would it not be better to send somebody who does? If the customer DOES happen to know about welding you might not understand the arguments/explanations he's putting forward.
To put it another way - how are you going to convince him he's wrong when YOU don't know why he's wrong?
To put it another way - how are you going to convince him he's wrong when YOU don't know why he's wrong?
Ussrcossack said:
No, I contributed on that infamous thread. We pay properly and no family involved lol. Countdown said:
Just wondering - if you don't know that much about welding would it not be better to send somebody who does? If the customer DOES happen to know about welding you might not understand the arguments/explanations he's putting forward.
To put it another way - how are you going to convince him he's wrong when YOU don't know why he's wrong?
That's the point of the thread innit. I'm asking you. To put it another way - how are you going to convince him he's wrong when YOU don't know why he's wrong?
We are a small company with only limited options for presentable customer facing people.
The size of weld bead required is determined by the load it is required to carry, not the material thickness.
If this were not the case the welds holding cleats etc, to structural steel work would need to be huge, which would greatly increase the risk of distortion due to the amount of heat put into the work.
If this were not the case the welds holding cleats etc, to structural steel work would need to be huge, which would greatly increase the risk of distortion due to the amount of heat put into the work.
Hammersia said:
That's the point of the thread innit. I'm asking you.
We are a small company with only limited options for presentable customer facing people.
Fully understand your predicament, your welder could be a magician with a welding set but that doesn't make him suitable for speaking to customers, if fact if he's really good it's probably best you keep him away from customers lest he unleashes some 'Army Creole' on them and scorches their fragile egos. We are a small company with only limited options for presentable customer facing people.
For those unfamiliar with 'Army Creole'
The official language of the United States Armed Forces when off-duty. First documented as such by Tom Wolfe in his classic "The Right Stuff." Easy to learn and use because it has one main word, the word "f
k," which can be modified or used to serve as a noun, verb, adjective, adverb and gerund.Grumbly said:
The size of weld bead required is determined by the load it is required to carry, not the material thickness.
If this were not the case the welds holding cleats etc, to structural steel work would need to be huge, which would greatly increase the risk of distortion due to the amount of heat put into the work.
Yep, that's the sort of technical answer I'm getting at. That the welds aren't bigger because it will distort the metal, cheers. If this were not the case the welds holding cleats etc, to structural steel work would need to be huge, which would greatly increase the risk of distortion due to the amount of heat put into the work.
Hammersia said:
Customer says "thickness of the weld should equate to the thickest part of the materials being welded".
(Customer does NOT necessarily know what he's talking about).
What did the instructions say on the customers drawing? You should always be working to a proper drawing so that when situations like this arise, there is a clear definition of who asked for what and who created what. (Customer does NOT necessarily know what he's talking about).
If the customer didn't provide a comprehensive drawing with weld symbols and notes on thickness etc., you should be doing this (and charging), then getting them to sign it off before you commence work, maybe before you even quote as this is likely to cost you some of the profit in the job now.
We would never do a machining, fabrication or complete assembly job without drawings (from either party), understood and approved before manufacture.
Agree with above go in there with the right skillset
I work in a technical minefield and im not very technical.... I know my limits so have a colleague with 25 years exp and failing that our supplier has a couple of scientists with PHd's. Fortunately, we've had 99% of the qus before so normally ends with the customer "moaning" turning into "education". This is what you want - you're now a trusted SME and in our field that leads to more opportunites.
I work in a technical minefield and im not very technical.... I know my limits so have a colleague with 25 years exp and failing that our supplier has a couple of scientists with PHd's. Fortunately, we've had 99% of the qus before so normally ends with the customer "moaning" turning into "education". This is what you want - you're now a trusted SME and in our field that leads to more opportunites.
Yep, what has the customer specified for the welding and the testing and inspection of it?
I deal with a lot of queries from customers (forged/machined aero engine components), and it's all about compliance to what is specified, not "I don't like the look of it".
One option could be a sample weld on a test piece that they can then have tested to see if it meets what they require.
.
I deal with a lot of queries from customers (forged/machined aero engine components), and it's all about compliance to what is specified, not "I don't like the look of it".
One option could be a sample weld on a test piece that they can then have tested to see if it meets what they require.
.
InitialDave said:
Yep, what has the customer specified for the welding and the testing and inspection of it?
I deal with a lot of queries from customers (forged/machined aero engine components), and it's all about compliance to what is specified, not "I don't like the look of it".
One option could be a sample weld on a test piece that they can then have tested to see if it meets what they require.
.
The customer is an end user, it's not a sub component of anything else, so it's our design for what we judge appropriate to the customer's needs.I deal with a lot of queries from customers (forged/machined aero engine components), and it's all about compliance to what is specified, not "I don't like the look of it".
One option could be a sample weld on a test piece that they can then have tested to see if it meets what they require.
.
The customer "doesn't like the look of it" and believes it will break but has no known expertise, testing capability etc. in the engineering we have done.
The customer says as per the OP "weld thickness should equal thickest part of material" but according to the replies that sounds like nonsense for a start.
Hammersia said:
The customer is an end user, it's not a sub component of anything else, so it's our design for what we judge appropriate to the customer's needs.
Who in your company designed it? Surely that is the person who understands the subject sufficiently to discuss with the client? If they can't explain it, are they capable?Hammersia said:
The customer is an end user, it's not a sub component of anything else, so it's our design for what we judge appropriate to the customer's needs.
The customer "doesn't like the look of it" and believes it will break but has no known expertise, testing capability etc. in the engineering we have done.
The customer says as per the OP "weld thickness should equal thickest part of material" but according to the replies that sounds like nonsense for a start.
So your company should be able to demonstrate your expertise, testing and engineering design knowledge. The customer "doesn't like the look of it" and believes it will break but has no known expertise, testing capability etc. in the engineering we have done.
The customer says as per the OP "weld thickness should equal thickest part of material" but according to the replies that sounds like nonsense for a start.
Otherwise you saying it looks fine is equally as valid as them stating it doesn’t. One of you has to provide some facts.
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