Is Wetherspoons killing British pubs?
Discussion
In our town we currently have a Spoons, Sports bar, Green King pub, Upmarket Pub and a very random music related pub. Another big cheap pub has just gone due to new lease/rates going through the roof.
Spoons has been fairly basic inside and 'you get what you pay for' type of place for many years. But recently it was renovated and is now very nice inside indeed, with a huge range of beer, basic but 'good' food and App ordering. All with stupidly low prices (large Pinot and a decent pint for £7, etc.)
They are so good at what they do that I don't know how many other 'normal' pubs can possibly compete. In effect, their brilliant business is killing off any pub that doesn't have something they don't (either big sports screens or music/dancing).
Our Green King pub is nice but it's £5 a round more and only has a limited range of beers, mostly theirs. For whatever reason, GK can't complete on prices, or get anywhere near. The other pubs are at least/more expensive, with only the Sports bar next to Spoons having lowish priced beers.
Trying to compete against Wetherspoons as a normal pub seems almost impossible and for all their success I do like to go to more than one pub bu with each round of 2 drinks being around £5 more its not a small price difference.
Spoons has been fairly basic inside and 'you get what you pay for' type of place for many years. But recently it was renovated and is now very nice inside indeed, with a huge range of beer, basic but 'good' food and App ordering. All with stupidly low prices (large Pinot and a decent pint for £7, etc.)
They are so good at what they do that I don't know how many other 'normal' pubs can possibly compete. In effect, their brilliant business is killing off any pub that doesn't have something they don't (either big sports screens or music/dancing).
Our Green King pub is nice but it's £5 a round more and only has a limited range of beers, mostly theirs. For whatever reason, GK can't complete on prices, or get anywhere near. The other pubs are at least/more expensive, with only the Sports bar next to Spoons having lowish priced beers.
Trying to compete against Wetherspoons as a normal pub seems almost impossible and for all their success I do like to go to more than one pub bu with each round of 2 drinks being around £5 more its not a small price difference.
I'd be interested to know how Spoons manage get by being so cheap. We have one here with mental low prices and it's the place that all the "kids" seem to go. Too young for me so I go to another expensive place!
Most of their places seem to be quite unique though like an old cinema etc so always interesting buildings.
TX.
Most of their places seem to be quite unique though like an old cinema etc so always interesting buildings.
TX.
Terminator X said:
Most of their places seem to be quite unique though like an old cinema etc so always interesting buildings.
TX.
TX.
You can say what you like about 'Spoons, but they do a fantastic job of preserving great buildings that might otherwise be lost.
I too wonder how on earth they manage to charge the low prices that they do. I think there will always be a place for them (we've got maybe 6 in the Nottingham and 'burbs).
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
Terminator X said:
Most of their places seem to be quite unique though like an old cinema etc so always interesting buildings.
TX.
TX.
You can say what you like about 'Spoons, but they do a fantastic job of preserving great buildings that might otherwise be lost.
Huntingdon.
They bought the old post office building which had been empty for years, and did a really great job of it.
They also let the locals vote on naming it.
It hasn't killed off all the other pubs.
This govt and the general s
tification of the UK are more likely the issue
Cost of living , extra NIC , and then business rate increases
https://www.standard.co.uk/business/labour-hospita...
tification of the UK are more likely the issue Cost of living , extra NIC , and then business rate increases
https://www.standard.co.uk/business/labour-hospita...
Terminator X said:
I'd be interested to know how Spoons manage get by being so cheap.
I would imagine it is the economies of scale for purchasing beer and food, and supply chain management.If you can proceduralise the running of pubs then they can be managed by pretty much anyone. In the world of 'Spoons I suspect there is little understanding of how to keep a cellar and serve a good pint, more of enabling a manager to keep the place running with minimum wage staff.
The business rates issue is interesting. On the pubs local to me it appears that those pubs with the biggest increases have not been paying a fare share previously. One pub the RV is going up from £10,000 to £25,000. The rateable value is meant to represent the trade of the pub, and it may be around 10% of the trade. That suggests the trade of the pub is £100,000. This pub serves food lunch and evening 7 days a week. You cant to that on £100k income.
Looking at local pubs it appears those where the RV has been consistent level since 2010 List the VO didnt have trade data. If the RV jumps this year they do. The RV changes a lot more where it seems the VO has the data and many went down the 2023 list.
It should be possible for many publicans to estimate their RV after all it should be similar to the rent, but pub rents are extremely variable and reflect trade ties etc. It will be interesting to see what happens with the review of the valuation basis.
On the matter of Wetherspoons they offer an ok product at a cheap price and take advantage of bulk purchasing.
Looking at local pubs it appears those where the RV has been consistent level since 2010 List the VO didnt have trade data. If the RV jumps this year they do. The RV changes a lot more where it seems the VO has the data and many went down the 2023 list.
It should be possible for many publicans to estimate their RV after all it should be similar to the rent, but pub rents are extremely variable and reflect trade ties etc. It will be interesting to see what happens with the review of the valuation basis.
On the matter of Wetherspoons they offer an ok product at a cheap price and take advantage of bulk purchasing.
Survival of the fittest.
Wetherspoons will never threaten the traditional country pub, because they are too far away, but in a town centre you would have to be on the top of your game to compete with them.
I like "Spoons" because they bring run down old buildings back into use, the food and staff are usually very good and the drinks are extremely competitive.
They have now branched out into hotels and are expanding rapidly.
https://hotels.jdwetherspoon.com/hotels/
Wetherspoons will never threaten the traditional country pub, because they are too far away, but in a town centre you would have to be on the top of your game to compete with them.
I like "Spoons" because they bring run down old buildings back into use, the food and staff are usually very good and the drinks are extremely competitive.
They have now branched out into hotels and are expanding rapidly.
https://hotels.jdwetherspoon.com/hotels/
I guess they are the equivalent of a supermarket v a smaller shop in terms of volume and negotiating prices. In most high streets I think there's space for both Wetherspoons and much smaller ex-shop independents but the larger, more traditional pub is going to disappear or turn into restaurants.
Chrisgr31 said:
The business rates issue is interesting.
The Telegraph published an article a couple of weeks ago with a business rate lookup embedded in it. Most of the towns that I looked at appeared to show the various Wetherspoons having either a slight increase or a reduction, overall they seem to have emerged from this particular bloodbath largely unscathed. Some of their bigger locations, eg the Velvet Coaster in Blackpool, are apparently getting a 31% rate cut though there’s other locations that are getting similar sized increases.Rate lookup is in this article and probably some others
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/01/12/pu...
Edited by alangla on Saturday 31st January 22:14
Wacky Racer said:
Survival of the fittest.
Wetherspoons will never threaten the traditional country pub, because they are too far away, but in a town centre you would have to be on the top of your game to compete with them.
I like "Spoons" because they bring run down old buildings back into use, the food and staff are usually very good and the drinks are extremely competitive.
They have now branched out into hotels and are expanding rapidly.
https://hotels.jdwetherspoon.com/hotels/
IMX it’s rare to get a dud pint in a Wetherspoon, I can only think of one that I’ve sent back in probably 20+ years, whether that’s because they turn over a lot more, so the kegs are fresher or they’ve got stricter rules on maintaining the lines than smaller pubs I’m not sure. I did drinks deliveries for a while when I was a student 20+ years ago and pretty much every Wetherspoon I visited back then had an immaculate, temperature controlled, cellar, totally unlike the majority of other places where no drinks were chilled unless they were in the fridges in the bar. Wetherspoons will never threaten the traditional country pub, because they are too far away, but in a town centre you would have to be on the top of your game to compete with them.
I like "Spoons" because they bring run down old buildings back into use, the food and staff are usually very good and the drinks are extremely competitive.
They have now branched out into hotels and are expanding rapidly.
https://hotels.jdwetherspoon.com/hotels/
Our village has gone from 8 pubs when we arrived 27 years ago down to 4 despite the enormous amount of new builds, they don't use the pubs because they're more than a 20 minute walk to the centre.
When they build all these new houses they never factor in shops/pubs/community centres.
Wetherspoons and other large breweries like Arkells around here just buy up buildings to feck up the independents and leave them empty. Also allowing them to sell their rubbish beer.
When they build all these new houses they never factor in shops/pubs/community centres.
Wetherspoons and other large breweries like Arkells around here just buy up buildings to feck up the independents and leave them empty. Also allowing them to sell their rubbish beer.
Terminator X said:
I'd be interested to know how Spoons manage get by being so cheap. We have one here with mental low prices and it's the place that all the "kids" seem to go. Too young for me so I go to another expensive place!
Most of their places seem to be quite unique though like an old cinema etc so always interesting buildings.
TX.
Worked with a girl who was a buyer for Spoons and my understanding was something like this.Most of their places seem to be quite unique though like an old cinema etc so always interesting buildings.
TX.
Brewer has x amount of barrels that are due to expire on a said date,Spoons get first dibs at a discounted rate as their may be a large number of barrels and once they expire they can’t be sold .
With the coverage they have they it provides them with leverage I would assume to buy low and sell lowish on their premises,also they can handle large quantities and are confident of selling those.
Also not all drinks in Spoons are cheap , spirits up my way are often more expensive that locally owned pubs.
Kuwahara said:
Worked with a girl who was a buyer for Spoons and my understanding was something like this.
Brewer has x amount of barrels that are due to expire on a said date,Spoons get first dibs at a discounted rate as their may be a large number of barrels and once they expire they can t be sold .
With the coverage they have they it provides them with leverage I would assume to buy low and sell lowish on their premises,also they can handle large quantities and are confident of selling those.
Also not all drinks in Spoons are cheap , spirits up my way are often more expensive that locally owned pubs.
Thanks for typing and saving me from the sameBrewer has x amount of barrels that are due to expire on a said date,Spoons get first dibs at a discounted rate as their may be a large number of barrels and once they expire they can t be sold .
With the coverage they have they it provides them with leverage I would assume to buy low and sell lowish on their premises,also they can handle large quantities and are confident of selling those.
Also not all drinks in Spoons are cheap , spirits up my way are often more expensive that locally owned pubs.
I am told too it is buying end of line stock, in large volumes, knowing (gambling?) they will shift it all that accesses the cheap product
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