Dashes in domain names - ok or naff?
Discussion
I've already asked this question of a couple of PHers by private email, but I thought I might start a thread on the subject to get a wider range of opinions.
I incorporated Coruscant Ltd. in 1999 and narrowly missed out on registering coruscant.co.uk and was unable to register coruscant.com as it is owned by LucasArts and is a Star Wars site. So I registered coruscant.ltd.uk which is what we've been using ever since.
Back in February we made an offer on coruscant.co.uk which was accepted, but the current owner (an individual) is taking his time. Hasn't cashed the cheque yet or anything, but assures us the sale is still on.
Due to bad planning we missed out on coruscant.eu in the recent landrush, so I decided to register www.coruscant-ltd.com, www.coruscant-ltd.co.uk and www.coruscant-ltd.eu as a fallback.
The thing is, I'm starting to wonder if coruscant-ltd.com might actually be the better domain name.
Pros:
* Sends a clear message that this is a business site and not a Star Wars fan site
* .com still has a certain cachet
Cons:
* Domains with a dash in them may be considered the poor man's choice for not being able to get the one they want (ie. coruscant.com)
* They can cause confusion when being dictated over the phone ("Hyphen, you know, the dash. The minus sign. On the keyboard next to '0'. Yes, that's the one." )
Or maybe coruscant.co.uk is the one to go for (if we finally get it)
Pros:
* Shorter and more memorable
Cons:
* Easily confused with coruscant.com (which will never be ours)
* May get traffic from people looking for a Star Wars site (or is this a Pro?
)
* Less professional looking than a .com?
What does everyone think?
>> Edited by JonRB on Friday 21st April 13:25
I incorporated Coruscant Ltd. in 1999 and narrowly missed out on registering coruscant.co.uk and was unable to register coruscant.com as it is owned by LucasArts and is a Star Wars site. So I registered coruscant.ltd.uk which is what we've been using ever since.
Back in February we made an offer on coruscant.co.uk which was accepted, but the current owner (an individual) is taking his time. Hasn't cashed the cheque yet or anything, but assures us the sale is still on.
Due to bad planning we missed out on coruscant.eu in the recent landrush, so I decided to register www.coruscant-ltd.com, www.coruscant-ltd.co.uk and www.coruscant-ltd.eu as a fallback.
The thing is, I'm starting to wonder if coruscant-ltd.com might actually be the better domain name.
Pros:
* Sends a clear message that this is a business site and not a Star Wars fan site
* .com still has a certain cachet
Cons:
* Domains with a dash in them may be considered the poor man's choice for not being able to get the one they want (ie. coruscant.com)
* They can cause confusion when being dictated over the phone ("Hyphen, you know, the dash. The minus sign. On the keyboard next to '0'. Yes, that's the one." )
Or maybe coruscant.co.uk is the one to go for (if we finally get it)
Pros:
* Shorter and more memorable
Cons:
* Easily confused with coruscant.com (which will never be ours)
* May get traffic from people looking for a Star Wars site (or is this a Pro?
) * Less professional looking than a .com?
What does everyone think?
>> Edited by JonRB on Friday 21st April 13:25
I hyphenated because it was all that was available. Got the .co.uk but with a hyphen between the two words.
That sniping topic I posted a while back was because I want the one without the hyphen.
Needs must at the moment though, I dont think theres a particular downside to it.
Its the content thats important after all.
That sniping topic I posted a while back was because I want the one without the hyphen.
Needs must at the moment though, I dont think theres a particular downside to it.
Its the content thats important after all.
From a user perspective: if I only knew the name of your company and that you're located in the UK, I would first try Google, then if your site didn't turn up on the first couple of result pages I'd try (company name).com, then (company name).co.uk, after that I'd go straight back to Google.
If I didn't find your site within the next 5-10 mins of Googling and I was really desperate to find you, I'd try combinations of your company name with -ltd.com, -ltd.co.uk et cetera.
Hope this helps.
If I didn't find your site within the next 5-10 mins of Googling and I was really desperate to find you, I'd try combinations of your company name with -ltd.com, -ltd.co.uk et cetera.
Hope this helps.
from many years experience in the business - i advise against hyphens. you only register hyphens to make sure they are reserved and you point them to your main trading domain. the best domain you have so far imo is the coruscant.ltd.uk one, that is until coruscant.co.uk becomes available that is.
Wouldn't worry about .com too much.
>> Edited by tinman0 on Friday 21st April 12:51
Wouldn't worry about .com too much.
>> Edited by tinman0 on Friday 21st April 12:51
tinman0 said:
from many years experience in the business - i advise against hyphens. you only register hyphens to make sure they are reserved and you point them to your main trading domain. the best domain you have so far imo is the coruscant.ltd.uk one, that is until coruscant.co.uk becomes available that is.
Wouldn't worry about .com too much.
>> Edited by tinman0 on Friday 21st April 12:51
Exactly what he said.
There are a lot of companies out there, big ones, who don't always have the "whole deck" so to speak.
I'm currently looking at a few domain names which have been registered for almost 2 years but not been used. So I know where you are coming from.
I'm just paranoid I'll make an offer and it be refused. I can see they are coming up for renewal at the end of this year, and I'm wondering whether to just wait and then dive in and buy them for a tenner or make an offer now and get on with it, but risk the fact that they know someone is intrested and then renew again or offer it for a stupid price.
On the subject though, seing as you have a company named "X" doesn't that legally give you a right to "X".co.uk etc etc? I remember a few years ago when people where deliberately buying up domain names so as to sell them back to the big corps and some went to court and I seem to remember that it was ruled that if you didn't have a right to the domain, i.e. you didn't have a company registerd under tha same name, then you had to sell it to the legitimate company?
I may be completely wrong here, but if that ISN'T the case, then I may just have solved another problem of mine...
Sorry for the thread hyjack.
JC
Carpet bagging is indeed a no-no, although speculative registration isn't.
For example I registered dressed4play.com & .co.uk quite a few years ago as part of a business idea that I decided not to proceed with. I keep renewing them with a view to selling - in fact I had hoped that the PHer who now has dressed2play (registered long after I registered dressed4play, I hasten to add) might have bought them off me but he was sadly uninterested.
The irony is that dressed2play is exactly what I had in mind for dressed4play. Funny old world.
I really should stop registering domains - I have far too many of them.
>> Edited by JonRB on Friday 21st April 16:03
For example I registered dressed4play.com & .co.uk quite a few years ago as part of a business idea that I decided not to proceed with. I keep renewing them with a view to selling - in fact I had hoped that the PHer who now has dressed2play (registered long after I registered dressed4play, I hasten to add) might have bought them off me but he was sadly uninterested.
The irony is that dressed2play is exactly what I had in mind for dressed4play. Funny old world.
I really should stop registering domains - I have far too many of them.
>> Edited by JonRB on Friday 21st April 16:03
There are some rules about it to be honest.
The people who have won domain name cases usually do so for some un-obvious reasons.
For instance, one of the ways these companies trip up some of the domain name owners is to ask whether the domain is for sale. If the owner says "yeah okay - how much do you want to pay?" the owner is history as they are deemed to of bought the domain name with a view to selling it to company.
The answer to that question is actually "no, but thanks for asking".
Other people have registered domains of trademarks, they are just dying for a slap over that one.
Then there are the cases where the appeals process is just plain wrong.
The people who have won domain name cases usually do so for some un-obvious reasons.
For instance, one of the ways these companies trip up some of the domain name owners is to ask whether the domain is for sale. If the owner says "yeah okay - how much do you want to pay?" the owner is history as they are deemed to of bought the domain name with a view to selling it to company.
The answer to that question is actually "no, but thanks for asking".
Other people have registered domains of trademarks, they are just dying for a slap over that one.
Then there are the cases where the appeals process is just plain wrong.
JonRB said:
Pros:
* Shorter and more memorable
Cons:
* Easily confused with coruscant.com (which will never be ours)
* May get traffic from people looking for a Star Wars site (or is this a Pro?
* Less professional looking than a .com?
What does everyone think?
>> Edited by JonRB on Friday 21st April 13:25
I don't agree that a .com looks more professional than a .co.uk My feeling is there is a lot to be said for being obviously British (particularly when searching on google etc). I say keep pursueing the guy selling the .co.uk one
tinman0 said:
from many years experience in the business - i advise against hyphens. you only register hyphens to make sure they are reserved and you point them to your main trading domain. the best domain you have so far imo is the coruscant.ltd.uk one, that is until coruscant.co.uk becomes available that is.
Wouldn't worry about .com too much.
>> Edited by tinman0 on Friday 21st April 12:51
Agreed. It roles off the tongue much easier without the hyphen. I wanted to look at viking stationary the other day so typed in vikingdirect.co.uk and get some naff viking costume site. The stationary site is viking-direct.co.uk nowhere near as obvious IMO. Obviously you get there in the end. A minor annoyance more than anything else, but if you can choose, coruscant.co.uk is the one to go for.
I too don't believe that .com has any cachet over .co.uk. Where possible I buy both, but what I find is that on the number of sites I've designed and monitor, the .co.uk site gets masses more traffic than the .com one.
If the guy has agreed a sale and acknowledged receipt of your cheque then you've got a contract there, so if necessary could pursue that, although it sounds as though he's going to sell even if he is taking his time!
If the guy has agreed a sale and acknowledged receipt of your cheque then you've got a contract there, so if necessary could pursue that, although it sounds as though he's going to sell even if he is taking his time!
Would agree that hyphens add confusion; I think that the domain name should be an obvious development of the business name (www.timthepoolman.com.au , site not there yet...) I had to go with .au, as .com is already used in the US.
As an aside, in Perth we have both www.westfieldsportscars.com.au and www.westfield-sportscars.com.au , 2 separate and rival companies!
As an aside, in Perth we have both www.westfieldsportscars.com.au and www.westfield-sportscars.com.au , 2 separate and rival companies!
i think a hyphen would definitely have benefitted the US Company Pen Island.......">www.penisland.com......
From my experience I would suggest that whilst hyphens can be problematic it very much depends on how you realisitically think your domain is used. As has been mentioned, most will find you via search engine rather than knowing your name, so the actual domain is only relevant then for positoing and credibility to your audience - and hyphenated ones (such as the suggested coruscant-uk.com) can give a more serious and global feel.
Obviously if you think you'll get most visitors via your actual name directly (or you're constantly giving it out over phone etc) then better not to. Done a few market research workshops around this and very very few people ever guess a name and include a hyphen.
cheers
Night
From my experience I would suggest that whilst hyphens can be problematic it very much depends on how you realisitically think your domain is used. As has been mentioned, most will find you via search engine rather than knowing your name, so the actual domain is only relevant then for positoing and credibility to your audience - and hyphenated ones (such as the suggested coruscant-uk.com) can give a more serious and global feel.
Obviously if you think you'll get most visitors via your actual name directly (or you're constantly giving it out over phone etc) then better not to. Done a few market research workshops around this and very very few people ever guess a name and include a hyphen.
cheers
Night
nightmare said:
i think a hyphen would definitely have benefitted the US Company Pen Island.......">www.penisland.com......
I got my previous company top Google rankings using hyphens. I really rate them.
Just my 2p of course.
I have non-framed web forwarding set up for
www.coruscant-ltd.com
www.coruscant-ltd.co.uk and
www.coruscant-ltd.eu
all forwarding to coruscant.ltd.uk at the moment.
Will this benefit from the boost in Google rankings for hyphenated names? I can go further and change these to all look as if they are all being hosted but actually pointing to the same virtual server if not. I just haven't got round to it as it means writing DNS entries for them all and then getting Muncher to add them to the vserver - not that this is an issue or anything, it's just on the TODO list that's all.
www.coruscant-ltd.com
www.coruscant-ltd.co.uk and
www.coruscant-ltd.eu
all forwarding to coruscant.ltd.uk at the moment.
Will this benefit from the boost in Google rankings for hyphenated names? I can go further and change these to all look as if they are all being hosted but actually pointing to the same virtual server if not. I just haven't got round to it as it means writing DNS entries for them all and then getting Muncher to add them to the vserver - not that this is an issue or anything, it's just on the TODO list that's all.
Google will only pick up 'real' domains, forwarding pages, frames or not generally only contain the forwarding code.
Best advice I can give is apply to register the main site in dmoz.org now. This carries a lot of weight and can take months for it to appear.
What would people be looking for to find your site?
http://inventory.uk.overture.com/d/se can be helpful
Best advice I can give is apply to register the main site in dmoz.org now. This carries a lot of weight and can take months for it to appear.
What would people be looking for to find your site?
http://inventory.uk.overture.com/d/se can be helpful
My company actually has a hyphen in the name. We have the .com suffix, but (and this is only anecdotal experience) the actual website address doesn't matter too much so long as it's not totally incomprehensible.
People will either know your address and go to the site (which is where an easy to remember name is more than helpful) or they'll search for the services you provide and in that case what's more important is how well you score on google's criteria. I'm sure there's gurus on here who will tell you exactly how that works, but lots of cross linking and the right 'keywords' seem to be what matters.
People will either know your address and go to the site (which is where an easy to remember name is more than helpful) or they'll search for the services you provide and in that case what's more important is how well you score on google's criteria. I'm sure there's gurus on here who will tell you exactly how that works, but lots of cross linking and the right 'keywords' seem to be what matters.
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