Er...can anyone help? expenses question....

[minimax]

Hi fellows, just wondering if I can ask a favour from you learned lot:

I have never in my working life filled out an expenses form, nor ever claimed any expenses...dim, nay, even witted maybe - but there it is.

so, I have decided to start doing this, and claiming back my £150-£200 per month...question is, my boss says that he needs me to attach petrol receipts to the full value of the claim (in this instance £167.59) whereas my friend thinks that attaching receipts to the value of 40% of the claim will be sufficient...

can anyone shed any light? or point me to a link please?

thanks!

Tom


edit: this is for an old claim, dating from august btw...oddly I don't have a claim for this month.. if it makes a difference

oh, and the answer makess a difference to me as I don't actually have £170odd of petrol receipts on me and not likely to be able to accrue that soon anyway...

Edited by minimax on Wednesday 27th September 17:35

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

In my experience the receipts should add up to the claim. Proper VAT receipts are usally required too (i.e. not just the credit card slip)

[david_s]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

In my experience the receipts should add up to the claim. Proper VAT receipts are usally required too (i.e. not just the credit card slip)

Not if you are claiming mileage. You can claim £0.40 per mile (although not all companies pay the full amount)for the first 10,000 miles, which includes an element for fuel as well as wear and tear, maintenance etc. The employer can only reclaim the VAT on the fuel element but may well wish to reclaim VAT on the lot, hence the request for receipts for the full amount. For mileage claims it is unreasonable to expect fuel receipts for the full amount claimed.

For any other expense claim it is usual to expect a receipt for anything claimed and a VAT receipt for anything that includes VAT.

[minimax]

david_s said:

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

In my experience the receipts should add up to the claim. Proper VAT receipts are usally required too (i.e. not just the credit card slip)

Not if you are claiming mileage. You can claim £0.40 per mile (although not all companies pay the full amount)for the first 10,000 miles, which includes an element for fuel as well as wear and tear, maintenance etc. The employer can only reclaim the VAT on the fuel element but may well wish to reclaim VAT on the lot, hence the request for receipts for the full amount. For mileage claims it is unreasonable to expect fuel receipts for the full amount claimed.

For any other expense claim it is usual to expect a receipt for anything claimed and a VAT receipt for anything that includes VAT.

righty-ho, we're getting somewhere!

so what percentage of the claim must I produce receipts for?

[Eric Mc]

Different businesses have different approaches to expense claims.

If you are incurring costs which you are paying out of your own pocket, there should really be some sort of mechanism within your employment contract to allow you to claim these costs back from your employer.

For non-motoring related costs, the normal way is to hand in the related expense vouchers which obviously prove to your employer the fact the the cost was incurred and the value of the expense you want to claim back. The original voucher will also allow the employer to claim back any VAT on the expense.

Motoring costs are slightly different as the Inland Revenue allow a number of alternative but exclusive claim mechanisms.

The simplest (from the employee's point of view) is to claim motoring costs on a "pence per mile" basis i.e the employee claims back an amount based on the miles travelled at "x"p per mile. The value of "x" is ususally laid down by the employer. The Inland Revenue will allow employers to pay up to 40p per mile for the first 10,000 business miles to an employee. If the amount paid is greater than 40p per mile, the employee will be taxed on the excess over 40p. The 40p rate drops to 25p after 10,000 business miles.
If your employer pays you at a rate LESS than the 40p amount, YOU can make a claim for tax relief on the difference between what you are paid and 40p directly to the Revenue.

Because of achange in the VAT legislation, employers should really still ask for some supporting petrol vouchers even if you are making a claim on the 40p per mile system. This is purely a VAT issue and does not constitute an actual claim based on the voucher.

I have never come across any claim schemes based on a % of the actual petrol voucher.

The 40p per mile claim is not just for petrol. It is supposed to cover all the running costs of your car and is based on data supplied to the Revenue by trhe AA and the RAC.

Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 27th September 18:07

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

david_s said:

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

In my experience the receipts should add up to the claim. Proper VAT receipts are usally required too (i.e. not just the credit card slip)

Not if you are claiming mileage.

Are you a politician? A true statement, but not the answer to the question

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

As Eric says, are you reclaiming "expenses" or "mileage"?

[egomeister]

minimax said:

david_s said:

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

In my experience the receipts should add up to the claim. Proper VAT receipts are usally required too (i.e. not just the credit card slip)

Not if you are claiming mileage. You can claim £0.40 per mile (although not all companies pay the full amount)for the first 10,000 miles, which includes an element for fuel as well as wear and tear, maintenance etc. The employer can only reclaim the VAT on the fuel element but may well wish to reclaim VAT on the lot, hence the request for receipts for the full amount. For mileage claims it is unreasonable to expect fuel receipts for the full amount claimed.

For any other expense claim it is usual to expect a receipt for anything claimed and a VAT receipt for anything that includes VAT.

righty-ho, we're getting somewhere!

I've generally just given them a copy of all my fuel receipts for the period, and let them decide how they are going to process it - no use for you in this case but may be an approach for the future.

so what percentage of the claim must I produce receipts for?

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

...and if it's fuel, is it for your own car, or a company car....which opens another set of questions

[minimax]

Eric Mc said:

The simplest (from the employee's point of view) is to claim motoring costs on a "pence per mile" basis i.e the employee claims back an amount based on the miles travelled at "x"p per mile. The value of "x" is ususally laid down by the employer. The Inland Revenue will allow employers to pay up to 40p per mile for the first 10,000 business miles to an employee. If the amount paid is greater than 40p per mile, the employee will be taxed on the excess over 40p. The 40p rate drops to 25p after 10,000 business miles.
If your employer pays you at a rate LESS than the 40p amount, YOU can make a claim for tax relief on the difference between what you are paid and 40p directly to the Revenue.

cool so basically I can tell them to stuff their receipt request and hand my form in anyway? sorted. I can prove that I was where I was if needs be

thanks!

now i'm wondering how to convince them of this...show them this thread perhaps?

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

minimax said:

Eric Mc said:

The simplest (from the employee's point of view) is to claim motoring costs on a "pence per mile" basis i.e the employee claims back an amount based on the miles travelled at "x"p per mile. The value of "x" is ususally laid down by the employer. The Inland Revenue will allow employers to pay up to 40p per mile for the first 10,000 business miles to an employee. If the amount paid is greater than 40p per mile, the employee will be taxed on the excess over 40p. The 40p rate drops to 25p after 10,000 business miles.
If your employer pays you at a rate LESS than the 40p amount, YOU can make a claim for tax relief on the difference between what you are paid and 40p directly to the Revenue.

cool so basically I can tell them to stuff their receipt request and hand my form in anyway? sorted. I can prove that I was where I was if needs be

thanks!

now i'm wondering how to convince them of this...show them this thread perhaps?

Nope..it depends entirely on what your employer asks for.

[minimax]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

As Eric says, are you reclaiming "expenses" or "mileage"?

ah sorry, i'm a newbie at this lark...i'm claiming mileage ie for visiting satellite offices

[minimax]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

...and if it's fuel, is it for your own car, or a company car....which opens another set of questions

it's fuel for the Elise (from early august in this case)

It was amusing meeting one of the directors the other day...so, Tom, we're funding your Lotus on trips out are we? I must say I was terribly smug while driving to alderley edge a few months ago, 165 miles each way and country lanes the whole time...and getting paid for it while claiming expenses too! result!

[minimax]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

minimax said:

Eric Mc said:

The simplest (from the employee's point of view) is to claim motoring costs on a "pence per mile" basis i.e the employee claims back an amount based on the miles travelled at "x"p per mile. The value of "x" is ususally laid down by the employer. The Inland Revenue will allow employers to pay up to 40p per mile for the first 10,000 business miles to an employee. If the amount paid is greater than 40p per mile, the employee will be taxed on the excess over 40p. The 40p rate drops to 25p after 10,000 business miles.
If your employer pays you at a rate LESS than the 40p amount, YOU can make a claim for tax relief on the difference between what you are paid and 40p directly to the Revenue.

cool so basically I can tell them to stuff their receipt request and hand my form in anyway? sorted. I can prove that I was where I was if needs be

thanks!

now i'm wondering how to convince them of this...show them this thread perhaps?

Nope..it depends entirely on what your employer asks for.

shit, now i'm confuddled again.

so basically, my boss has no obligation to provide receipts for petrol mileage claims to the revenue, but if they entirely spuriously ask me to do so, i've not got a leg to stand on. great



there's a reason i've never claimed expenses before - too much ing hassle!

[randlemarcus]

Tom, If you are showing them this thread, chop it off above this post.

The compnay I work for has a generic agreement with HMRC, and has done for donkeys years that as long as the expenses are reclaimed ones, i.e spend it, claim it, then they woud accept the word of the employer about receipts, so all my receipts are stuffed in envelopes, and presumably find their merry way into an archive. Until this year, I have simply claimed mileage by stating that I did x miles @ whatever the reimbursement rates are that month (they track garages, which will be fun this month).

However, HMRC have now stated that they want the employer to collect, and have ready for inspection, VAT receipts for fuel. The company may possibly have asked for VAT receipts to vaguely reflect the journey taken, but so far I'm putting the whole lot in 3-month envelopes, and making sure the fivers full for the bike go in there as well.

What it boils down to is that as long as the company are satisfied you did the trip, they shouldnt need retrospective receipts, but you are well advised to get one when you fill up from this point onwards.

As an aside - you've never claimed expenses They must love you....

[david_s]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

david_s said:

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

In my experience the receipts should add up to the claim. Proper VAT receipts are usally required too (i.e. not just the credit card slip)

Not if you are claiming mileage.

Are you a politician? A true statement, but not the answer to the question

Did you read the original question? The clue was in the reference to petrol receipts, and the part of my reply that you didn't quote pretty much answered the question as I understood it. I also believe my reply to be factually correct, whereas your's was a load of bo£$&*%s.

[david_s]

Eric Mc said:

Different businesses have different approaches to expense claims.

If you are incurring costs which you are paying out of your own pocket, there should really be some sort of mechanism within your employment contract to allow you to claim these costs back from your employer.

For non-motoring related costs, the normal way is to hand in the related expense vouchers which obviously prove to your employer the fact the the cost was incurred and the value of the expense you want to claim back. The original voucher will also allow the employer to claim back any VAT on the expense.

Motoring costs are slightly different as the Inland Revenue allow a number of alternative but exclusive claim mechanisms.

The simplest (from the employee's point of view) is to claim motoring costs on a "pence per mile" basis i.e the employee claims back an amount based on the miles travelled at "x"p per mile. The value of "x" is ususally laid down by the employer. The Inland Revenue will allow employers to pay up to 40p per mile for the first 10,000 business miles to an employee. If the amount paid is greater than 40p per mile, the employee will be taxed on the excess over 40p. The 40p rate drops to 25p after 10,000 business miles.
If your employer pays you at a rate LESS than the 40p amount, YOU can make a claim for tax relief on the difference between what you are paid and 40p directly to the Revenue.

Because of achange in the VAT legislation, employers should really still ask for some supporting petrol vouchers even if you are making a claim on the 40p per mile system. This is purely a VAT issue and does not constitute an actual claim based on the voucher.

I have never come across any claim schemes based on a % of the actual petrol voucher.

The 40p per mile claim is not just for petrol. It is supposed to cover all the running costs of your car and is based on data supplied to the Revenue by trhe AA and the RAC.

Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 27th September 18:07

I don't know if it was based on fact, but at a VAT inspection the other day the nice lady inspector said that it was ok to reclaim the VAT on £0.10 per mile. What I usually do is include every receipt I can find and reclaim the VAT on all of them (business miles only of course), but without knowing the exact business mileage covered and the exact mpg for each journey I cannot be certain what parts of each receipt relate to business miles and which are private. Hence the suggestion of reclaiming VAT on £0.10 per mile regardless of the value of receipts attached.

Edited by david_s on Wednesday 27th September 18:30

[Fatboy]

Echo the milage comments - just ask your boss if you can just claim 40p per mile - by far the easiest way....

If they want petrol reeciepts, and you are directly claiming the petrol back, I can't see why they could accept anything other than all the relevant reciepts.

If you're short of enough reciepts, just pinch some off someone else for the right amount/time

[Eric Mc]

Up until January this year, the VAT authorities allowed an EMPLOYER to claim VAT back on 50% of the value of mileage claims submitted by their employees who were reclaiming their motoring costs on a pence per mile basis. However, following a case in the Netherlands, the VAT authorities in Brussels (who oversee all VAT regulations in each EU country) notified the UK that this was an incorrect approach as it meant that businesses were claiming back VAT on costs for which no original VAT invoice existed (the basis of the claim was the Expense Sheet completed by the employee - not fuel receipts from the garage).

There are real problems with a business trying to claim back VAT without an original VAT receipt. The problem with mileage claims from employees is that the business is NOT buying fuel from a garage directly. What it is doing is recompensing an employee on a pence per mile basis for ALL the vehicle running costs incurred by the employee whilst undertaking a business related trip. When you consider that not all vehicle running costs contain recoverable VAT (depreciation, insurance, MOT, Road Tax etc) then you can see why recovery of VAT for the employer is going to be a problem. Added to that is the fact that the employer has NOT done any business with the garage directly - the employee has. The employee is not VAT registered so cannot claim any VAT back. The employer is paying his employee directly, so there are, strictly speaking, no VAT amounts that the employer can really recover.

Up until January the British VAT authorities BY CONCESSION allowed VAT recovery for the employer based on 50% of the mileage costs paid. With that now being outlawed by Brussels, the only advice that they can give is that the employee passes on SOME of the VAT receipts he would have picked up when he bought the petrol to his employer. As I have said already, in reality this would not provide sufficient evidence to allow the employer to recover any VAT on these invoices as the contract was between the garage and the employee, not between the garage and the employer. Added to that is the impossible task of trying to ascertain what elements of the fuel "fill up" related to business and what element related to private.

If the VAT people here are now advising that VAT recovery is based on 10% of the mileage claim (as opposed to the old 50%), this is no more accurate a method of recovering VAT or no more in accordance with their original method.

Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 27th September 20:52

[minimax]

randlemarcus said:

Tom, If you are showing them this thread, chop it off above this post.

The compnay I work for has a generic agreement with HMRC, and has done for donkeys years that as long as the expenses are reclaimed ones, i.e spend it, claim it, then they woud accept the word of the employer about receipts, so all my receipts are stuffed in envelopes, and presumably find their merry way into an archive. Until this year, I have simply claimed mileage by stating that I did x miles @ whatever the reimbursement rates are that month (they track garages, which will be fun this month).

However, HMRC have now stated that they want the employer to collect, and have ready for inspection, VAT receipts for fuel. The company may possibly have asked for VAT receipts to vaguely reflect the journey taken, but so far I'm putting the whole lot in 3-month envelopes, and making sure the fivers full for the bike go in there as well.

What it boils down to is that as long as the company are satisfied you did the trip, they shouldnt need retrospective receipts, but you are well advised to get one when you fill up from this point onwards.

As an aside - you've never claimed expenses They must love you....

thanks for the advice


and re: never claiming...I'm obstinately lazy