quick employment question
Discussion
My wife has a hair salon and all staff are weekly paid with a week's notice either way!
I dropped her off this morning and one of her stylists has dropped her keys through the door + a letter saying that she is giving a weeks notice and that she is owed a weeks holiday pay - so wont be coming in for the week that she has given as notice!!!
Needless to say - we are not very happy - can she do this and where do we stand?
Khushy
I dropped her off this morning and one of her stylists has dropped her keys through the door + a letter saying that she is giving a weeks notice and that she is owed a weeks holiday pay - so wont be coming in for the week that she has given as notice!!!
Needless to say - we are not very happy - can she do this and where do we stand?
Khushy
khushy said:
My wife has a hair salon and all staff are weekly paid with a week's notice either way!
I dropped her off this morning and one of her stylists has dropped her keys through the door + a letter saying that she is giving a weeks notice and that she is owed a weeks holiday pay - so wont be coming in for the week that she has given as notice!!!
Needless to say - we are not very happy - can she do this and where do we stand?
Khushy
I dropped her off this morning and one of her stylists has dropped her keys through the door + a letter saying that she is giving a weeks notice and that she is owed a weeks holiday pay - so wont be coming in for the week that she has given as notice!!!
Needless to say - we are not very happy - can she do this and where do we stand?
Khushy
I think she can get away with this (although she's not being very ethical here) and I would pay her and move on.
It depends on her contract.
If her contract is that she can decide her own holiday at no notice then she has done nothing wrong.
However, if her contract says that holidays must be mutually agreed between her and management she has breached her contract.
She is quite correct that she should be owed any acrued holiday allowance, however as an employer you are to pay this as days wages when she leaves.
I think she is under the mistaken belief that what she is doing is right.
I think you have two or three options:
1) Live with it and pay her her dues. If she wants to go she is not really going to create the best atmosphere if she leaves.
2) She no doubt has clients for next week which she is under contract to be there for for at least a week. Ask her to fulfil her notice period properly.
3) Add up the business lost from her breach of contract and/or the cost of getting replacement staff at short notice. As she has breached her contract you would be well entitled to take these costs from her final wage packet and holiday allowance owed.
Of course which you go for depends on the personalities of the person involved. If you feel you have been 'screwed over', for example you explain to her that although you understand she wants to leave but she needs to fulfil her notice and have the holiday allowance in the final pay as per her contract - and you get a two word answer, I would be tempted for going to number three.
Her only recourse for her to 'overule' your decision in this situation would be to take you to court for a few hundred quid. Unlikely, and also she would lose on the breach of contract anyway. Depends on your mindset which way you go!
If her contract is that she can decide her own holiday at no notice then she has done nothing wrong.
However, if her contract says that holidays must be mutually agreed between her and management she has breached her contract.
She is quite correct that she should be owed any acrued holiday allowance, however as an employer you are to pay this as days wages when she leaves.
I think she is under the mistaken belief that what she is doing is right.
I think you have two or three options:
1) Live with it and pay her her dues. If she wants to go she is not really going to create the best atmosphere if she leaves.
2) She no doubt has clients for next week which she is under contract to be there for for at least a week. Ask her to fulfil her notice period properly.
3) Add up the business lost from her breach of contract and/or the cost of getting replacement staff at short notice. As she has breached her contract you would be well entitled to take these costs from her final wage packet and holiday allowance owed.
Of course which you go for depends on the personalities of the person involved. If you feel you have been 'screwed over', for example you explain to her that although you understand she wants to leave but she needs to fulfil her notice and have the holiday allowance in the final pay as per her contract - and you get a two word answer, I would be tempted for going to number three.
Her only recourse for her to 'overule' your decision in this situation would be to take you to court for a few hundred quid. Unlikely, and also she would lose on the breach of contract anyway. Depends on your mindset which way you go!
There's nothing worse than a hairdresser with an attitude - she could do your business a heap of damage in the week. Check her entitlement is correct and pay her when it is due
When you get a replacement - consider changing the contract to four weeks notice - then this won't happen again
When you get a replacement - consider changing the contract to four weeks notice - then this won't happen again
Cheers guys - we are still debating what to do!
Justin - you would be surprised at what people try and claim for - we had a solicitors letter 2 years ago - from an employee who was initially on maternity leave then (without notice) decided she wasnt coming back - for ONLY £5 frekin brushes - which she had already taken!!!
LMAO!!!
She wanted to take it to court - we told her that we would gladly see her there - never heard any more.
The solicitor must have cost her at least a £100 - people are so stupid.
Thanks for the help - will probably take one of Justins options etc etc
Khushy
Justin - you would be surprised at what people try and claim for - we had a solicitors letter 2 years ago - from an employee who was initially on maternity leave then (without notice) decided she wasnt coming back - for ONLY £5 frekin brushes - which she had already taken!!!
LMAO!!!
She wanted to take it to court - we told her that we would gladly see her there - never heard any more.
The solicitor must have cost her at least a £100 - people are so stupid.
Thanks for the help - will probably take one of Justins options etc etc
Khushy
i just closed the two hair salons i owned because i found the staff totally impossibly to work with.
one of th girls started tribunal proceedings against us becuase we sacked her. We sacked her because she just didn't turn up to work one week having decided on the sunday night to go on holiday without telling anyone- she phoned us from Turkey to tell us a few days later. Unbelevievably this was the second time she had done this and was surprised that we sacked her!
generally hair dressers and beauticians are a complete nightmare- you have my sympathies.
one of th girls started tribunal proceedings against us becuase we sacked her. We sacked her because she just didn't turn up to work one week having decided on the sunday night to go on holiday without telling anyone- she phoned us from Turkey to tell us a few days later. Unbelevievably this was the second time she had done this and was surprised that we sacked her!
generally hair dressers and beauticians are a complete nightmare- you have my sympathies.
justinp1 said:
3) Add up the business lost from her breach of contract and/or the cost of getting replacement staff at short notice. As she has breached her contract you would be well entitled to take these costs from her final wage packet and holiday allowance owed.
It is unlawful to make deductions from an employees wages without their permission whatever the reason. Even if they have stolen cash from you and have absolute proof, you cannot deduct the money from their final salary. It has to be returned separately.
pugwash4x4 said:
i just closed the two hair salons i owned because i found the staff totally impossibly to work with.
one of the girls started tribunal proceedings against us becuase we sacked her. We sacked her because she just didn't turn up to work one week having decided on the sunday night to go on holiday without telling anyone- she phoned us from Turkey to tell us a few days later. Unbelevievably this was the second time she had done this and was surprised that we sacked her!
one of the girls started tribunal proceedings against us becuase we sacked her. We sacked her because she just didn't turn up to work one week having decided on the sunday night to go on holiday without telling anyone- she phoned us from Turkey to tell us a few days later. Unbelevievably this was the second time she had done this and was surprised that we sacked her!
The chances are that her Tribunal case will be successful to some degree if you sacked her over the phone. There are statutory procedures laid down that have to followed to dismiss someone no matter what the lengh of service. If you fail to follow them,you are leaving yourself open for a claim.
I recently dismissed someone after following the procedure to the letter. He had stolen cash from us for work done for customers on three occasions; I have statements from the three customers confirming that they paid in cash. The funds were never paid to the company.
Six weeks later ET papers came through; "I sacked him because his skin wasn't white!" Unbelieveable.
We are contesting the claim with a very capable lawyer, needless to say.
530dTPhil said:
justinp1 said:
3) Add up the business lost from her breach of contract and/or the cost of getting replacement staff at short notice. As she has breached her contract you would be well entitled to take these costs from her final wage packet and holiday allowance owed.
It is unlawful to make deductions from an employees wages without their permission whatever the reason. Even if they have stolen cash from you and have absolute proof, you cannot deduct the money from their final salary. It has to be returned separately.
pugwash4x4 said:
i just closed the two hair salons i owned because i found the staff totally impossibly to work with.
one of the girls started tribunal proceedings against us becuase we sacked her. We sacked her because she just didn't turn up to work one week having decided on the sunday night to go on holiday without telling anyone- she phoned us from Turkey to tell us a few days later. Unbelevievably this was the second time she had done this and was surprised that we sacked her!
one of the girls started tribunal proceedings against us becuase we sacked her. We sacked her because she just didn't turn up to work one week having decided on the sunday night to go on holiday without telling anyone- she phoned us from Turkey to tell us a few days later. Unbelevievably this was the second time she had done this and was surprised that we sacked her!
The chances are that her Tribunal case will be successful to some degree if you sacked her over the phone. There are statutory procedures laid down that have to followed to dismiss someone no matter what the lengh of service. If you fail to follow them,you are leaving yourself open for a claim.
I recently dismissed someone after following the procedure to the letter. He had stolen cash from us for work done for customers on three occasions; I have statements from the three customers confirming that they paid in cash. The funds were never paid to the company.
Six weeks later ET papers came through; "I sacked him because his skin wasn't white!" Unbelieveable.
We are contesting the claim with a very capable lawyer, needless to say.
Technically, yes. The 'letter of the law' way of doing it would be to pay her in full and then ask/sue for the compensation as per breach of contract. However, in reality such situations comes down to who can be bothered to sue who, and the person 'in possession' on the funds that are argued over is in by far the better position.
In court the procedure would be that the plaintiff the employee would sue for the wages, technically breach of contract on behalf of the employer, but the defendant the employer would argue that it was the employee who breached ther contract by not coming to work in the first place and counterclaim for the breach of contract costs and the court would decide the two factors and produce an outcome.
Completely agree with what you say about following procedure to the letter. There was a recent ruling whereby if someone is sacked without following disciplinary procedure then this is immediate grounds for unfair dismissal - regardless of the fact that they blatantly deserved the sack.
Of course, in your situation as your solicitor has no doubt informed you, in such a situation you need to investigate properly - and it sounds like you have, you dont need to make a decision to criminal standards or 'beyond reasonable doubt', legally you need to show you have made a reasonable decision based on the facts in front of you. It is frankly deplorable that in such a situation where it sounds like you could have gone to the police, and didnt, that this is the outcome.
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