Mileage payments
Discussion
I know that for the first 10,000 business miles a director/employee can be paid 40p a mile and 25p thereafter.
I notice that good old HMRC have a special form P11D to report the fact
www.hmrc.gov.uk/worksheets/p11dws6.pdf
Does this suggest that the 40p, or part thereof is somehow a BiK, or is it just HMRC keeping a check on us?
Here's one I bet they haven't thought about yet:
My company have pay as you go insurance on my company car (yes, odd I know). Most of my miles are private miles. I am presuming that HMRC won't argue that as the majority of mileage in the car is private, that I should pay the insurance for the miles I drive privately??? Surely, usually the company pay the insurance for all of the miles and that is accounted for in the company car tax ( BiK).
If I have to pay the per mile insurance, can I claim a reduction on my company car tax?? In fact, if I offer to pay the private miles insurance, could I ask for a reduction do you think?????
I notice that good old HMRC have a special form P11D to report the fact
www.hmrc.gov.uk/worksheets/p11dws6.pdf
Does this suggest that the 40p, or part thereof is somehow a BiK, or is it just HMRC keeping a check on us?
Here's one I bet they haven't thought about yet:
My company have pay as you go insurance on my company car (yes, odd I know). Most of my miles are private miles. I am presuming that HMRC won't argue that as the majority of mileage in the car is private, that I should pay the insurance for the miles I drive privately??? Surely, usually the company pay the insurance for all of the miles and that is accounted for in the company car tax ( BiK).
If I have to pay the per mile insurance, can I claim a reduction on my company car tax?? In fact, if I offer to pay the private miles insurance, could I ask for a reduction do you think?????
If you get a company car you are not able to claim the 40p/25p thing. Those rates are for reimbursement for the employee's use of his own car.
If:
www.hmrc.gov.uk/worksheets/p11dws6
is filled out correctly it's an "in & Out" thing,
If:
www.hmrc.gov.uk/worksheets/p11dws6
is filled out correctly it's an "in & Out" thing,
Edited by 2 sMoKiN bArReLs on Tuesday 24th April 21:15
The 40p/25p per mile rates relate to PRIVATE cars (not company cars) used by an employee or director on trips required as part of their employment duties.
The whole point of this mileage allowance is that any payments made at or under these limits ARE NOT classified as a BIK and therefore DO NOT NEED to be reported on the P11d.
If the company supplies you with a car, THAT is a BIK and IS reported on the P11d (and a P46(Car) as well).
If the company supplies you with fuel, then THAT IS also a BIK AND IS REPORTED on the P11D.
If the company supplies a company car but DOES NOT pay for the employee's fuel, the employee can claim a smaller mileage allowance of 9p (under 1400cc), 11p (1400cc to 2000cc) or 16p (over 2000cc).
I am not altogether sure about the BIK situation if the employer pays for the employee's motor insurance. It seems to me that it should be a staright Benefit and the tax charge would be based on the actual cost of the insurance covered by the employer.
However< i would need to check that out.
The whole point of this mileage allowance is that any payments made at or under these limits ARE NOT classified as a BIK and therefore DO NOT NEED to be reported on the P11d.
If the company supplies you with a car, THAT is a BIK and IS reported on the P11d (and a P46(Car) as well).
If the company supplies you with fuel, then THAT IS also a BIK AND IS REPORTED on the P11D.
If the company supplies a company car but DOES NOT pay for the employee's fuel, the employee can claim a smaller mileage allowance of 9p (under 1400cc), 11p (1400cc to 2000cc) or 16p (over 2000cc).
I am not altogether sure about the BIK situation if the employer pays for the employee's motor insurance. It seems to me that it should be a staright Benefit and the tax charge would be based on the actual cost of the insurance covered by the employer.
However< i would need to check that out.
Yes.
Sole-traders can use the "pence per mile" basis as the figure for Motor Expenses in their profit and loss accounts. If they chose to do this, they cannot claim any of the genuine motor expenses they would normally have claimed under the "traditional " method e.g. -
petrol/fuel costs
insurance
road tax
repairs
servicing
Capital Allowances
Sole-traders can use the "pence per mile" basis as the figure for Motor Expenses in their profit and loss accounts. If they chose to do this, they cannot claim any of the genuine motor expenses they would normally have claimed under the "traditional " method e.g. -
petrol/fuel costs
insurance
road tax
repairs
servicing
Capital Allowances
Eric Mc said:
The 40p/25p per mile rates relate to PRIVATE cars (not company cars) used by an employee or director on trips required as part of their employment duties.
The whole point of this mileage allowance is that any payments made at or under these limits ARE NOT classified as a BIK and therefore DO NOT NEED to be reported on the P11d.
If the company supplies you with a car, THAT is a BIK and IS reported on the P11d (and a P46(Car) as well).
If the company supplies you with fuel, then THAT IS also a BIK AND IS REPORTED on the P11D.
If the company supplies a company car but DOES NOT pay for the employee's fuel, the employee can claim a smaller mileage allowance of 9p (under 1400cc), 11p (1400cc to 2000cc) or 16p (over 2000cc).
I am not altogether sure about the BIK situation if the employer pays for the employee's motor insurance. It seems to me that it should be a staright Benefit and the tax charge would be based on the actual cost of the insurance covered by the employer.
However< i would need to check that out.
The whole point of this mileage allowance is that any payments made at or under these limits ARE NOT classified as a BIK and therefore DO NOT NEED to be reported on the P11d.
If the company supplies you with a car, THAT is a BIK and IS reported on the P11d (and a P46(Car) as well).
If the company supplies you with fuel, then THAT IS also a BIK AND IS REPORTED on the P11D.
If the company supplies a company car but DOES NOT pay for the employee's fuel, the employee can claim a smaller mileage allowance of 9p (under 1400cc), 11p (1400cc to 2000cc) or 16p (over 2000cc).
I am not altogether sure about the BIK situation if the employer pays for the employee's motor insurance. It seems to me that it should be a staright Benefit and the tax charge would be based on the actual cost of the insurance covered by the employer.
However< i would need to check that out.
I should have explained it better: I have one of each.
I use my private car for most of the miles as it has the load capacity I need when travelling away but also have an older but more exotic company car that is used more locally and mainly privately (which is the one I have the pay-as-you drive insurance on).
It sounds luike the private car is straight forward althoyugh I can;ty figure out why they have a form for the 40p/25p a mile thing, I am guessing they are checking that I am only being paid 10000 miles at 40p.
Unless they pay all of the PAYD insurance as they would with a company car normally , I think I should be entitled to some BiK reduction if I pay my own insurance on the private miles.
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
If you get a company car you are not able to claim the 40p/25p thing. Those rates are for reimbursement for the employee's use of his own car.
If:
www.hmrc.gov.uk/worksheets/p11dws6
is filled out correctly it's an "in & Out" thing,
If:
www.hmrc.gov.uk/worksheets/p11dws6
is filled out correctly it's an "in & Out" thing,
Edited by 2 sMoKiN bArReLs on Tuesday 24th April 21:15
Hmm.. Have done about 40K over 2 years through the company, so sent in the 1st p11d a while back, (thought I'd do it in 2 hits). Got a letter more or less by return wanting my P60s for that time plus proof of mileage. Since I didn't know about being able to do this at the time, all I've got is the excel spreadshet I calculated it on which (over the phone) they seemed to think wouldn't be accepted. Company has since changed its system so as I'm no longer an employee, said they've not got the records and herefore can't get them to me. I suspect thats code for 'we can't be arsed', but not sure what my position is now..
Eric Mc said:
What form have "they" got (I assume you are referring to HMRC) for the 40P per mile details?
It certainly isn't the P11d form as the whole point of the 40p claim is that it doesn't neeed to be notified to HMRC.
It certainly isn't the P11d form as the whole point of the 40p claim is that it doesn't neeed to be notified to HMRC.
This one: P11d but details the 40p/25p thing, which is why I was confused.
Leftie said:
Eric Mc said:
What form have "they" got (I assume you are referring to HMRC) for the 40P per mile details?
It certainly isn't the P11d form as the whole point of the 40p claim is that it doesn't neeed to be notified to HMRC.
It certainly isn't the P11d form as the whole point of the 40p claim is that it doesn't neeed to be notified to HMRC.
This one: P11d but details the 40p/25p thing, which is why I was confused.
www.hmrc.gov.uk/worksheets/p11dws6.pdf
That is not the actual P11d. That is a worksheet to "assist" you with the P11d. This worksheet is not a statutory form and does not need to be submitted to the Revenue.
There is no box or space on the P11d itself to include the mileage amount paid to indoividuals so long as the mileage claimed does not exceed the 40p/25p thresholds.
What this worksheet is trying to do is to enable you to establish if any of the employees/directors were paid in excess of the mileage allowance limits. If they were, then that "excess" needs to be entered in the correct box on the P11d.
There is no box or space on the P11d itself to include the mileage amount paid to indoividuals so long as the mileage claimed does not exceed the 40p/25p thresholds.
What this worksheet is trying to do is to enable you to establish if any of the employees/directors were paid in excess of the mileage allowance limits. If they were, then that "excess" needs to be entered in the correct box on the P11d.
Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 25th April 15:03
Eric Mc said:
That is not the actual P11d. That is a worksheet to "assist" you with the P11d. This worksheet is not a statutory form and does not need to be submitted to the Revenue.
There is no box or space on the P11d itself to include the mileage amount paid to indoividuals so long as the mileage claimed does not exceed the 40p/25p thresholds.
What this worksheet is trying to do is to enable you to establish if any of the employees/directors were paid in excess of the mileage allowance limits. If they were, then that "excess" needs to be entered in the correct box on the P11d.
There is no box or space on the P11d itself to include the mileage amount paid to indoividuals so long as the mileage claimed does not exceed the 40p/25p thresholds.
What this worksheet is trying to do is to enable you to establish if any of the employees/directors were paid in excess of the mileage allowance limits. If they were, then that "excess" needs to be entered in the correct box on the P11d.
Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 25th April 15:03
Thanks for that Eric. So HNMRC have a form that is for my convenience!
Psycho - are you caliming the 40p per mile directly from the Revenue?
They are enytitled to ask for supporting evidence of the claim.
Do/did you have a work diary?
Did you complete any sort of weekly/monthly time sheets and do you have access to them now.
Any documentation that shows you made these trips is admissable.
The mileage between your place of work and the people you visited (which should be the basis of your claim) is easy to establish and not dependent on any records you would have needed to keep.
They are enytitled to ask for supporting evidence of the claim.
Do/did you have a work diary?
Did you complete any sort of weekly/monthly time sheets and do you have access to them now.
Any documentation that shows you made these trips is admissable.
The mileage between your place of work and the people you visited (which should be the basis of your claim) is easy to establish and not dependent on any records you would have needed to keep.
Eric Mc said:
Psycho - are you caliming the 40p per mile directly from the Revenue?
They are enytitled to ask for supporting evidence of the claim.
Do/did you have a work diary?
Did you complete any sort of weekly/monthly time sheets and do you have access to them now.
Any documentation that shows you made these trips is admissable.
The mileage between your place of work and the people you visited (which should be the basis of your claim) is easy to establish and not dependent on any records you would have needed to keep.
They are enytitled to ask for supporting evidence of the claim.
Do/did you have a work diary?
Did you complete any sort of weekly/monthly time sheets and do you have access to them now.
Any documentation that shows you made these trips is admissable.
The mileage between your place of work and the people you visited (which should be the basis of your claim) is easy to establish and not dependent on any records you would have needed to keep.
Firm payed 20p a mile expenses, and I didn't know until just before I left that I could claim the difference between that and 40p from HMRC.. Timesheet system was changed and my details not maintained as I'd left. I've got spreadsheets I've maintained myself, but the helpline seemed to think that was not sufficnet, (presumably as they are easy to just make up).
I think their issue maybe that I spent 2 years living in Sheffield and being assigned to the Sheffield office on paper, but working in Bristol. It worked out at a return trip each week, sometimes two. Thats a fair bit of mileage to suddenly claim..
I've swapped jobs and moved house since then so really must dig out the paperwork and start again. Might PM you when I've done that if thats ok and I don't get any joy..
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