patenting advice
Discussion
is there anybody on here that deals with patents?
i am about to start an aplication for a very simple device, and have been given a cost of £5000 by a patent attortny to complete the forms. It is only a matter of describing the device and woundered if it was truely necessary to have the application completed by a professional for upwards of £250per hr at this stage?
thanks in advance
i am about to start an aplication for a very simple device, and have been given a cost of £5000 by a patent attortny to complete the forms. It is only a matter of describing the device and woundered if it was truely necessary to have the application completed by a professional for upwards of £250per hr at this stage?
thanks in advance
my advice would be yes, it's crucial to have the patent prepared by a specialist - I use UDL. The risk if you don't is that you develop the product and the market (at your risk and cost), and someone uncovers a hole in your patent which invalidates it. They then setup in China and you're knackered.
be aware, that any prior art will invalidate your patent. That is, any information in any public domain (in any language) which describes the key features of your design sufficiently. Make sure your patent lawyer does a decent search, and insure your patent once its filed (before its granted).
UV
ps ultimately the patent is only worth what you are prepared to spend to defend it!
be aware, that any prior art will invalidate your patent. That is, any information in any public domain (in any language) which describes the key features of your design sufficiently. Make sure your patent lawyer does a decent search, and insure your patent once its filed (before its granted).
UV
ps ultimately the patent is only worth what you are prepared to spend to defend it!
Edited by Ultraviolet on Friday 27th April 10:10
I have applied for patents myself - it's a fairly simple process providing you can describe the product sufficiently and you have checked that it doesn;'t exist already. Cost me £200 I think.
BTW a patent is worthless in China and Japan (and probably most other Eastern countries). They are flagrantly contravened on a regular basis. The only real safeguard you have is if someone tries to sell a copy in the the UK.
BTW a patent is worthless in China and Japan (and probably most other Eastern countries). They are flagrantly contravened on a regular basis. The only real safeguard you have is if someone tries to sell a copy in the the UK.
Edited by TDIPLC on Saturday 28th April 14:32
Pay your patent attorney to draft the patent for exactly the same reasons as the first poster. If the patent is fundamental to your business then why risk writing it yourself only for the rest of the world (using their patent attorneys) to find the loopholes in your claim drafts. £5k is excessive if it is a short patent say about 10 pages. You should expect to pay nearer £3k for a short straight forward patent. Get a search done either by the UK patent office or the Swedish as they have the quickest turn around time 3-6 months.
As for the last comment on China and Japan. You are correct about China but that is changing quickly, Korea forget it and you are very wrong about Japan. I licence technology to the Japanese and they are very aware of IP and their ability to exploit it. But the Japanese and most Eastern companies will hide behind own language websites and information so will use your IP unless you police it yourself. As was said a patent is a worthless piece of paper unless you are willing to police the use of your invention. Once you approach Japanese companies they will open negotiations with you. Don't expect a quick resolution as consensus decision making takes time. Lots of time.
As for the last comment on China and Japan. You are correct about China but that is changing quickly, Korea forget it and you are very wrong about Japan. I licence technology to the Japanese and they are very aware of IP and their ability to exploit it. But the Japanese and most Eastern companies will hide behind own language websites and information so will use your IP unless you police it yourself. As was said a patent is a worthless piece of paper unless you are willing to police the use of your invention. Once you approach Japanese companies they will open negotiations with you. Don't expect a quick resolution as consensus decision making takes time. Lots of time.
thanks for the advice.
I thought £5k for the application was expensive, but i now have a meeting with UDL, at advice of UV, they quote about £750 to put together an application for patent.
I am going to run with this and see where i end up. We all like to think our products will lead us to huge wind falls and lets hope so.
Theres just so much to do now!!!
I thought £5k for the application was expensive, but i now have a meeting with UDL, at advice of UV, they quote about £750 to put together an application for patent.
I am going to run with this and see where i end up. We all like to think our products will lead us to huge wind falls and lets hope so.
Theres just so much to do now!!!
I've been using HLBB shaw - they're very thorough although the estimates seem to balloon due to queries raised by the examiners, and the time it takes them to prepare invoices (they actually charge for the time it takes to raise an invoice - love it!)
We've spent around £10K and that includes european protection for 18 months and UK patent filing.
It's a chicken and egg thing. If the product is succesful then it may be worth while, if it's a flop then it's just another £10K down the pan.
We've spent around £10K and that includes european protection for 18 months and UK patent filing.
It's a chicken and egg thing. If the product is succesful then it may be worth while, if it's a flop then it's just another £10K down the pan.
This comment isn't going to help I'm afraid.
It depends on the market you are in and your competitors. If you are going to be first in the market with a disruptive technology/product then you want to protect your technology/product at all cost.
If you are only protecting an embodiment of a product then your competitors can usually work around.
If you cannot afford to market and sell your product after protecting it then I do have to ask if you really have a business. It isn't that expensive to submit patent applications. The real costs come when you are going into the national phase of a PCT and are choosing countries where you want to patent your invention.
It depends on the market you are in and your competitors. If you are going to be first in the market with a disruptive technology/product then you want to protect your technology/product at all cost.
If you are only protecting an embodiment of a product then your competitors can usually work around.
If you cannot afford to market and sell your product after protecting it then I do have to ask if you really have a business. It isn't that expensive to submit patent applications. The real costs come when you are going into the national phase of a PCT and are choosing countries where you want to patent your invention.
If you market the idea first (that is, release any detailed information on the idea into the public domain), you will not then be able to patent it (but neither will anyone else).....
so if you have any plans to go down the patent route, you need to at least do the initial filing to keep your options open.
UV
so if you have any plans to go down the patent route, you need to at least do the initial filing to keep your options open.
UV
Edited by Ultraviolet on Tuesday 1st May 14:14
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