legal advice please
Discussion
I recently put a £5K non refundable reservation deposit on a new build property. At the time I wasn`t aware that "my " developer were still in negotiaion with another developer on the same site. Over some weeks these negotiations meant changes were made to what I was originally told. Boundries changed and my car parking space moved. They even sent me another conveyance plan showing a proposed pedestrian footpath down the length of my property. At this stage I withdrew and asked for my £5K back. Surely they are in breach of contract? I spoke with the estate agent and he said they had advised the developer not to release the properties until the negotiations were complete but they went ahead anyway. Initially I signed a reservation form because they told me there would be a short delay until contracts could be sent to my solicitors. In actual fact (they wrote to me), the conveyance plans hadn`t even been finalised!!!
I assume you have copies of the plan you put your deposit on. I also assume that 5K was on a credit card, (it should have been) so you can phone your CC service line.
Also you could get the final build plans from the developer and ask them why they're different. Just insist on what you paid for, they obviously can't deliver, so will probably just return your money.
Local papers love this sh1t
Also you could get the final build plans from the developer and ask them why they're different. Just insist on what you paid for, they obviously can't deliver, so will probably just return your money.
Local papers love this sh1t
mattley said:
I assume you have copies of the plan you put your deposit on. I also assume that 5K was on a credit card, (it should have been) so you can phone your CC service line.
Also you could get the final build plans from the developer and ask them why they're different. Just insist on what you paid for, they obviously can't deliver, so will probably just return your money.
Local papers love this sh1t
Mattley, nope did`t pay by credit card. Numpty!!!! The very first meeting was with sales reps,colour brochure, site model and conveyance plan which they didn`t give me a copy of. They showed me where the boundries would be and car parking....................both of which have now changed. However, I do have the conveyance plan issued after that meeting which differed. I then have a further one which differs again and shows a pedestrian footpath down the side of the property. After this one I pulled out so they came back a week later and said they wouldn`t run the path. I told them, too late I`ve lost confidence. If they don`t pay up, perhaps the papers would be a good bet. Also you could get the final build plans from the developer and ask them why they're different. Just insist on what you paid for, they obviously can't deliver, so will probably just return your money.
Local papers love this sh1t
I would say the developers are in breach of contract and should return the deposit. You may also have been entitled to a cooling off period between signing and the date of disclosure.
I would suggest you write to the developers explaining that, as the spec has changed to a such a degree you no longer have a contract with them, ie what you agreed to purchase is no longer being offered. Furthermore failure to refund the deposit will result in instructing a solicitor to recover the deposit, and if successfull, will also result in an application for a cost order.
I would suggest you write to the developers explaining that, as the spec has changed to a such a degree you no longer have a contract with them, ie what you agreed to purchase is no longer being offered. Furthermore failure to refund the deposit will result in instructing a solicitor to recover the deposit, and if successfull, will also result in an application for a cost order.
Was it a reservation fee or a deposit?
It's normal practice for the deposit to be paid upon signing of the contract (whereby exactly what you do get for your money should be laid out in black and white).
If it was a reservation fee which you paid over, it seems to me you engaged in a verbal contract to reserve the property on implicit terms. If they have changed the terms they are in breach of contract.
I wouldn't mess about with them. I would be demanding the original terms or a refund and compensation.
It's normal practice for the deposit to be paid upon signing of the contract (whereby exactly what you do get for your money should be laid out in black and white).
If it was a reservation fee which you paid over, it seems to me you engaged in a verbal contract to reserve the property on implicit terms. If they have changed the terms they are in breach of contract.
I wouldn't mess about with them. I would be demanding the original terms or a refund and compensation.
TDIPLC said:
Was it a reservation fee or a deposit?
It's normal practice for the deposit to be paid upon signing of the contract (whereby exactly what you do get for your money should be laid out in black and white).
If it was a reservation fee which you paid over, it seems to me you engaged in a verbal contract to reserve the property on implicit terms. If they have changed the terms they are in breach of contract.
I wouldn't mess about with them. I would be demanding the original terms or a refund and compensation.
It's normal practice for the deposit to be paid upon signing of the contract (whereby exactly what you do get for your money should be laid out in black and white).
If it was a reservation fee which you paid over, it seems to me you engaged in a verbal contract to reserve the property on implicit terms. If they have changed the terms they are in breach of contract.
I wouldn't mess about with them. I would be demanding the original terms or a refund and compensation.
Wot he said.
It sounds like the developer is willing to amend the plans to suit you, for example remove the footway - but you say you told him you had lost confidence.
Maybe you are looking for an excuse to get out - is this right? Are minor changes to the boundaries really that crucial? If the developer says he'll go back to the original layout you put your non-refundable deposit on will you be happy?
If you are simply looking for excuses to pull out I think you might have problems getting a refund.
Maybe you are looking for an excuse to get out - is this right? Are minor changes to the boundaries really that crucial? If the developer says he'll go back to the original layout you put your non-refundable deposit on will you be happy?
If you are simply looking for excuses to pull out I think you might have problems getting a refund.
TDIPLC said:
Was it a reservation fee or a deposit?
It's normal practice for the deposit to be paid upon signing of the contract (whereby exactly what you do get for your money should be laid out in black and white).
If it was a reservation fee which you paid over, it seems to me you engaged in a verbal contract to reserve the property on implicit terms. If they have changed the terms they are in breach of contract.
I wouldn't mess about with them. I would be demanding the original terms or a refund and compensation.
Mark, the one sheet agreement is headed "Confirmation of Reservation-Subject to Contract". £5K paid, property taken off market, unconditional contracts to be exchanged within 21days. Yep, they changed the terms........many times!!! It's normal practice for the deposit to be paid upon signing of the contract (whereby exactly what you do get for your money should be laid out in black and white).
If it was a reservation fee which you paid over, it seems to me you engaged in a verbal contract to reserve the property on implicit terms. If they have changed the terms they are in breach of contract.
I wouldn't mess about with them. I would be demanding the original terms or a refund and compensation.
Jay Ayegees said:
It sounds like the developer is willing to amend the plans to suit you, for example remove the footway - but you say you told him you had lost confidence.
Maybe you are looking for an excuse to get out - is this right? Are minor changes to the boundaries really that crucial? If the developer says he'll go back to the original layout you put your non-refundable deposit on will you be happy?
If you are simply looking for excuses to pull out I think you might have problems getting a refund.
Jay, wasn`t looking for a way out. I only found out about the footpath at the end of a two hour meeting discussing interior finishes. I commented to the Sales Manager that my side boundary had halved since the orginal meetings and was there any negotiation left with the other developers? It was at that stage that he told me a footpath was to run on my land and showed me the new conveyance plan. Otherwise, If I hadn`t commented I don`t even think he would have mentioned it. It had been an issue when they reduced it by 50%, this was too much!! Maybe you are looking for an excuse to get out - is this right? Are minor changes to the boundaries really that crucial? If the developer says he'll go back to the original layout you put your non-refundable deposit on will you be happy?
If you are simply looking for excuses to pull out I think you might have problems getting a refund.
Edited by gra001 on Monday 7th May 08:04
It may be that all you paid for was a 'reservation agreement', basically the developer agreed to take the property of the market and reserve it solely for you, whether you subsequently sign up to a purchase contract or not.
Basically you may just have paid for the option to buy or not buy it, excluding other potential interested parties - developers enter into these type of agreements with landowners all the time, so they are not unusual.
The developer will say that he kept his part of the agreement by offering the sale of the property exclusively to you - if you do not purchase he can then offer to others BUT keep your 5K legally.
Basically you may just have paid for the option to buy or not buy it, excluding other potential interested parties - developers enter into these type of agreements with landowners all the time, so they are not unusual.
The developer will say that he kept his part of the agreement by offering the sale of the property exclusively to you - if you do not purchase he can then offer to others BUT keep your 5K legally.
As it was a reservation fee, and if it was made clear that the terms are "subject to contract" at a later date, then I don't think you have a leg to stand on unfortunately.
If the above wasn't made clear to you then I believe you have grounds for a refund if you want to pull out, and possibly compensation too.
If the above wasn't made clear to you then I believe you have grounds for a refund if you want to pull out, and possibly compensation too.
I had exactly the same thing happen to me a couple of years ago. I put a deposit down on a new development and the subsequently found an enormous number of changes were being made to the whole plan.
I pulled out and after a little bit of arguing (but not too much) my deposit was returned in full. I don't know the legal arguments, but I had few problems.
I pulled out and after a little bit of arguing (but not too much) my deposit was returned in full. I don't know the legal arguments, but I had few problems.
TDIPLC said:
As it was a reservation fee, and if it was made clear that the terms are "subject to contract" at a later date, then I don't think you have a leg to stand on unfortunately.
If the above wasn't made clear to you then I believe you have grounds for a refund if you want to pull out, and possibly compensation too.
If the above wasn't made clear to you then I believe you have grounds for a refund if you want to pull out, and possibly compensation too.
Agreed.
I dont think there is anything legally you can do to force them to supply what they first offered. The footpath issue and the land size issue may be both outside their control. You could consider warning them that you wish to back out on this basis and see what their reaction is and whether they physically can do something about it.
If it doesnt work out, legally you should be able to get your deposit back though as not only has the agreement significantly changed, it was placed upon the fact that contracts would be exchanged within 21 days, and it seems like they are in no position to do this, and the time may have expired.
TDIPLC said:
As it was a reservation fee, and if it was made clear that the terms are "subject to contract" at a later date, then I don't think you have a leg to stand on unfortunately.
If the above wasn't made clear to you then I believe you have grounds for a refund if you want to pull out, and possibly compensation too.
At the time of reservation I was taken around the plot and the boundaries were explained to me and also car parking area. Since that reservation these boundaries and the car park area have changed (all to my detriment). Also, I have two conveyance plans since that reservation. One shows NO footpath and the subsequent a footpath the whole length of the property and garden. Surely that original verbal agreement has been breached by them regardless of any other contract?? They still have the developers fencing (as at this morning) in the same place as it was when they told me THAT was where the boundries would be. I`ve taken pictures. Surely it is reasonable to expect to exchange contracts which include the information that I was given and shown at reservation stage?? If the above wasn't made clear to you then I believe you have grounds for a refund if you want to pull out, and possibly compensation too.
Edited by gra001 on Monday 7th May 12:03
gra001 said:
TDIPLC said:
As it was a reservation fee, and if it was made clear that the terms are "subject to contract" at a later date, then I don't think you have a leg to stand on unfortunately.
If the above wasn't made clear to you then I believe you have grounds for a refund if you want to pull out, and possibly compensation too.
At the time of reservation I was taken around the plot and the boundaries were explained to me and also car parking area. Since that reservation these boundaries and the car park area have changed (all to my detriment). Also, I have two conveyance plans since that reservation. One shows NO footpath and the subsequent a footpath the whole length of the property and garden. Surely that original verbal agreement has been breached by them regardless of any other contract?? They still have the developers fencing (as at this morning) in the same place as it was when they told me THAT was where the boundries would be. I`ve taken pictures. Surely it is reasonable to expect to exchange contracts which include the information that I was given and shown at reservation stage?? If the above wasn't made clear to you then I believe you have grounds for a refund if you want to pull out, and possibly compensation too.
Edited by gra001 on Monday 7th May 12:03
In a word, no. Unfortunately.
Contracts with property are the only expemption from standard contract law.
If it were a car for example, even a verbal agreement is legally binding, although of course a written agreement covers yourself in times of disagreement of terms.
In buying property, every agreement is made 'subject to contract' just to confirm the situation, where basically until the final contracts are signed, then there is no binding agreement in place, regardless of what has been agreed!
This is why people can be 'gazumped' at the last minute, or indeed buyer and sellers can pull out at the eleventh hour and/or demand different terms.
So, in a nutshell, they can say 'well thats the way it is, do you want it or not?'
However, you may be able to get them to move on the price if the changes warrant it, although they would have the right to just give you your money back if a price could not be agreed.
Piglet said:
What does the document that you signed say - presumably it has their terms and conditions on it?
Usually the reservation paperwork includes a caveat that the developer can make whatever changes are necessary.
Is there another property they could offer you?
Just £5K non refundable depostit. Contracts to be exchaged within 21 days. Contract wasn`t even ready!!! No small print, T & C`s or caveats. Not interested in another property or the one I put the reservation fee on. Just want rid of the developer and my money back. Usually the reservation paperwork includes a caveat that the developer can make whatever changes are necessary.
Is there another property they could offer you?
gra001 said:
Piglet said:
What does the document that you signed say - presumably it has their terms and conditions on it?
Usually the reservation paperwork includes a caveat that the developer can make whatever changes are necessary.
Is there another property they could offer you?
Just £5K non refundable depostit. Contracts to be exchaged within 21 days. Contract wasn`t even ready!!! No small print, T & C`s or caveats. Not interested in another property or the one I put the reservation fee on. Just want rid of the developer and my money back. Usually the reservation paperwork includes a caveat that the developer can make whatever changes are necessary.
Is there another property they could offer you?
I dont want to be short, but have you asked him for the money back yet, on the (very fair IMHO) grounds you have stated?
If so, what exactly did they say in their defence?
Edited by justinp1 on Monday 7th May 19:07
justinp1 said:
gra001 said:
Piglet said:
What does the document that you signed say - presumably it has their terms and conditions on it?
Usually the reservation paperwork includes a caveat that the developer can make whatever changes are necessary.
Is there another property they could offer you?
Just £5K non refundable depostit. Contracts to be exchaged within 21 days. Contract wasn`t even ready!!! No small print, T & C`s or caveats. Not interested in another property or the one I put the reservation fee on. Just want rid of the developer and my money back. Usually the reservation paperwork includes a caveat that the developer can make whatever changes are necessary.
Is there another property they could offer you?
I dont want to be short, but have you asked him for the money back yet, on the (very fair IMHO) grounds you have stated?
If so, what exactly did they say in their defence?
Edited by justinp1 on Monday 7th May 19:07
gra001 said:
justinp1 said:
gra001 said:
Piglet said:
What does the document that you signed say - presumably it has their terms and conditions on it?
Usually the reservation paperwork includes a caveat that the developer can make whatever changes are necessary.
Is there another property they could offer you?
Just £5K non refundable depostit. Contracts to be exchaged within 21 days. Contract wasn`t even ready!!! No small print, T & C`s or caveats. Not interested in another property or the one I put the reservation fee on. Just want rid of the developer and my money back. Usually the reservation paperwork includes a caveat that the developer can make whatever changes are necessary.
Is there another property they could offer you?
I dont want to be short, but have you asked him for the money back yet, on the (very fair IMHO) grounds you have stated?
If so, what exactly did they say in their defence?
Edited by justinp1 on Monday 7th May 19:07
This is easy then.
Send them a letter headed 'Final Notice of Legal Action' and explain that due to the reasons you have explained you want your deposit back within 7 days. Warn them you will take immediate legal action if you dont get it back.
By co-incidence £5000 is the maximum amout which can be claimed throuhg the 'small claims' process, but you can do it online, at Money Claims Online, the interent front of the legal process.
There is every chance that they will just send you your money back without having to even fill out the papers.
Whether you get your soliciotr to draft up the letters is up to you, but it shouldnt really be necessary and will be an extra expense.
My guess is if they are good negotiators that when they get this letter they will call you and discuss reducing the price in order to save the sale. Whether that is a financially astute thing to consider is up to you!
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