Land Purchase - Subject To Planning - Query
Discussion
Looking at a property/land in Leeds & have spoken to the owner who is willing to sell it & has given me a figure he is wanting.
He has spoken to planning himself, albeit breifly, about conversion to residential & reckons he's been told that he would get the go ahead for 12 apartments.
Basically, on 12 dwellings the figures don't stack up, however, I have an alternative proposal for 15 apartments & would like to tie up a deal 'subject to planning approval' (outline or full).
I've mentioned to him that this is the only way that I could achieve his asking price & he is happy to go forward on this grounds.
My question is, how do I go about being granted exclusivity ? I don't want him allowing other people the same option, or worse, getting it through planning to then change his mind.
I'm sure its quite straightforward & would be grateful for any help on this.
He has spoken to planning himself, albeit breifly, about conversion to residential & reckons he's been told that he would get the go ahead for 12 apartments.
Basically, on 12 dwellings the figures don't stack up, however, I have an alternative proposal for 15 apartments & would like to tie up a deal 'subject to planning approval' (outline or full).
I've mentioned to him that this is the only way that I could achieve his asking price & he is happy to go forward on this grounds.
My question is, how do I go about being granted exclusivity ? I don't want him allowing other people the same option, or worse, getting it through planning to then change his mind.
I'm sure its quite straightforward & would be grateful for any help on this.
its pretty straight forward, you should submit an offer to purchase subject to obtaining full planning permission for 15 apartments, then fire in all the rest of the clauses into the contract such as you are granted exclusivity and he can not approach anyone else etc
Spek to your laywer he will arrange it all for you in his draft contract
Spek to your laywer he will arrange it all for you in his draft contract
Cheers.
I assumed it was pretty straightforward & that solicitors would take care of it all, I just wanted to check.
Basically, I am wanting to say "I will buy it for £x, however I expect that the seller will not market/sell to anyone else as only as contracts are exchanhed within x no. of weeks".
Therefore if I don't exchange contracts in that period he gets to sell to whomever.
Another question then. What is a reasonable amount of time to ask for in this situation, ie to get to exchanged of contracts ? I was initially thinking 3 months but is this taking the p!ss ? Assuming I can get a good idea on whether planning will be permitted in say 4/6 weeks & then another month or so to exchange contracts.
I assumed it was pretty straightforward & that solicitors would take care of it all, I just wanted to check.
Basically, I am wanting to say "I will buy it for £x, however I expect that the seller will not market/sell to anyone else as only as contracts are exchanhed within x no. of weeks".
Therefore if I don't exchange contracts in that period he gets to sell to whomever.
Another question then. What is a reasonable amount of time to ask for in this situation, ie to get to exchanged of contracts ? I was initially thinking 3 months but is this taking the p!ss ? Assuming I can get a good idea on whether planning will be permitted in say 4/6 weeks & then another month or so to exchange contracts.
I know this isn't the question you are asking but you have taken into account affordable housing when doing your calculations?
The trigger threshold in Leeds is 15 units (ie you will be expected to provide affordable housing if the number of units exceeds 14), and they have a 'get out' clause so that they can apply a lower threshold if they think you are deliberatley restrincting numbers to 14 or fewer in order to avoid affordable requirements.
I think they are reviewing the provision at the moment, but historically they have demanded between 15% and 30% affordable, depending on housing needs in the particular area of the city in which the development is proposed, so you would be looking at between 2 and 5 of your 15 flats being affordable. Be aware that having mixed affordable/market tenure also drags down the sales value of the market units...
The trigger threshold in Leeds is 15 units (ie you will be expected to provide affordable housing if the number of units exceeds 14), and they have a 'get out' clause so that they can apply a lower threshold if they think you are deliberatley restrincting numbers to 14 or fewer in order to avoid affordable requirements.
I think they are reviewing the provision at the moment, but historically they have demanded between 15% and 30% affordable, depending on housing needs in the particular area of the city in which the development is proposed, so you would be looking at between 2 and 5 of your 15 flats being affordable. Be aware that having mixed affordable/market tenure also drags down the sales value of the market units...
Hobo said:
Cheers.
I assumed it was pretty straightforward & that solicitors would take care of it all, I just wanted to check.
Basically, I am wanting to say "I will buy it for £x, however I expect that the seller will not market/sell to anyone else as only as contracts are exchanhed within x no. of weeks".
Therefore if I don't exchange contracts in that period he gets to sell to whomever.
Another question then. What is a reasonable amount of time to ask for in this situation, ie to get to exchanged of contracts ? I was initially thinking 3 months but is this taking the p!ss ? Assuming I can get a good idea on whether planning will be permitted in say 4/6 weeks & then another month or so to exchange contracts.
isnt planning permission time span 6 or 8 weeks if not contested? I assumed it was pretty straightforward & that solicitors would take care of it all, I just wanted to check.
Basically, I am wanting to say "I will buy it for £x, however I expect that the seller will not market/sell to anyone else as only as contracts are exchanhed within x no. of weeks".
Therefore if I don't exchange contracts in that period he gets to sell to whomever.
Another question then. What is a reasonable amount of time to ask for in this situation, ie to get to exchanged of contracts ? I was initially thinking 3 months but is this taking the p!ss ? Assuming I can get a good idea on whether planning will be permitted in say 4/6 weeks & then another month or so to exchange contracts.
We exchanged on a property subject to a change of use being granted. It was and we completed. I would perhaps do the smae here.
Hobo said:
Full planning would probably take around 3 months, however, I would be happy to exchange when 'outline' had been confirmed, which could obviously be achieved much quicker.
In terms of processing time, outline is no quicker than full application. On both, the statutory determination periods are 12 weeks for major applications and 8 weeks for minor applications, both running from the date of registration of the application. There are some differences between authorities on what is considered to be a 'minor' application, but I'd be quite surprised if an application for 15 flats would qualify, since it's the sort of thing that can be very sensitive. Because Planning Authorities are under intense pressure to meet statistical targets, however, the 'real' length of time it takes to get planning is often hidden... usually, they will strongly encourage you (read: bully you with threats of refusal
) into making sure all the details are pretty much agreed before you even submit the application and, if it looks like an application is going to over-run, they will strongly encourage you (read: bully you with threats of refusal again ) to withdraw it and resubmit it when the problems have been resolved. For this reason, 8/12 week statutory determination periods are largely a myth.
why would you be happy to exchange on outline ?
What id you exchanged on outline and the planners came back and said no to your 15 units but yes to your 12 ? YOu would have paid on the assumption you were getting 15 units and you really only are allowed 12 and that then fooks the development figures.
What id you exchanged on outline and the planners came back and said no to your 15 units but yes to your 12 ? YOu would have paid on the assumption you were getting 15 units and you really only are allowed 12 and that then fooks the development figures.
I understand what you are saying, but my dealings with Leeds City Council (albeit minimal) have been that they will give you a very good idea or what will or will not be 'approval' quite quickly.
I suppose they don't want swamping with full application requests & would therefore rather be upfront about what they would actually think would get approval.
I may be completely wrong, but as I've said, in my limited dealings with them this does seem the case.
I suppose they don't want swamping with full application requests & would therefore rather be upfront about what they would actually think would get approval.
I may be completely wrong, but as I've said, in my limited dealings with them this does seem the case.
ahh but if you want to take the risk then it can be worth while. Thats the game. Buyit and hope to get a) planning and b) the amount you want agreed.
Isnt that the nature of business, an investment for some form of return, a risk for a profit. a biger risk for a bigger profit. Great gonads risk for a hugmungus profit/downfall.
Isnt that the nature of business, an investment for some form of return, a risk for a profit. a biger risk for a bigger profit. Great gonads risk for a hugmungus profit/downfall.
what risk ? he is buying subject to planning ? im sure the guy has not got a different price for buying subject to outline or subject to detailed, they both take the same amount of time to obtain.
there should be no difference in the price with regards to the risk.
the only way you will take a massive risk and gain is buying clean.
there should be no difference in the price with regards to the risk.
the only way you will take a massive risk and gain is buying clean.
Hobo said:
Leeds City Council ...will give you a very good idea or what will or will not be 'approved' quite quickly.
They will, but it comes with a disclaimer that the information is given is an Officer's informal opinion blah, blah, blah, and that it carries no weight.A good Architect, Planning Consultant or Land Manager will have just as good an idea of Planning potential without even approaching the Local Authority.
Be aware that there have been many instances of people buying land on the basis of a Planning Officer's informal 'Yes, it won't be a problem', only to catch a severe cold when the goalposts are moved later. When this happens, you have no comeback against planning, so if you proceed with the purchase without a planning approval in place, it is at your risk.
Edited by Sam_68 on Friday 15th June 12:34
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