Financial career advice
Discussion
I know perhaps this thread should perhaps go in the jobs section but then there are also certain members who visit this sub-forum that I hope will be reading.
So after just completing university and getting the required 2:1 it's now coming to the time of getting a job. During my final year of university i've found myself getting a little bit involved with the stock market and made some trades over the year (nothing too serious or often either due to studies.) I applied to all the big accounting institutions for Audit/Assurance and had varying levels of success but none resulted in a final job offer. So after my playing on the stock market i'd kind of decided that I needed a job with some excitement - such as trading. So the question is: As a graduate should I bother trying to go into trading straight away (i've seen some jobs advertised), would it be advisable to seek a qualification first due to the possible short life span of the career(such as Accountancy) and as much as I currently enjoy trading, it's an in-frequent activity and was hoping if someone who trades would enlighten me if it becomes very tedious and stressful.
I'm really looking at Banking, trading and Accountancy and I may just apply for Business Recovery very shortly and then some other things but would just appreciate any comments on the above and also the banking industry and lifespans of the career.
Many thanks for any help
So after just completing university and getting the required 2:1 it's now coming to the time of getting a job. During my final year of university i've found myself getting a little bit involved with the stock market and made some trades over the year (nothing too serious or often either due to studies.) I applied to all the big accounting institutions for Audit/Assurance and had varying levels of success but none resulted in a final job offer. So after my playing on the stock market i'd kind of decided that I needed a job with some excitement - such as trading. So the question is: As a graduate should I bother trying to go into trading straight away (i've seen some jobs advertised), would it be advisable to seek a qualification first due to the possible short life span of the career(such as Accountancy) and as much as I currently enjoy trading, it's an in-frequent activity and was hoping if someone who trades would enlighten me if it becomes very tedious and stressful.
I'm really looking at Banking, trading and Accountancy and I may just apply for Business Recovery very shortly and then some other things but would just appreciate any comments on the above and also the banking industry and lifespans of the career.
Many thanks for any help
g4ry13 said:
I applied to all the big accounting institutions for Audit/Assurance and had varying levels of success but none resulted in a final job offer.
I can't really answer the first Q but it's a shame you didn't mention on here that you were going for these. There are plenty on here that work (or used to in my case)for the Big4 and a few have been involved in the grad recruitment process. bga said:
g4ry13 said:
I applied to all the big accounting institutions for Audit/Assurance and had varying levels of success but none resulted in a final job offer.
I can't really answer the first Q but it's a shame you didn't mention on here that you were going for these. There are plenty on here that work (or used to in my case)for the Big4 and a few have been involved in the grad recruitment process. If you are interested in trading, then go for it directly. I cannot see any reason why you would spend time traing for something else first, as no other training will be as useful as actually doing the job.
Lifespan is what you want it to be (as long as you ae good at what you do). The reason that you see relatively few 50 year old traders is that most of them took the money and went home.
Rewards are larger, faster, and, er, larger, than accountancy, and the job tends to be a whole lot more interesting too.
The city is riding on a huge wave of optinism at the moment, and is unable to recruit the skilled people that it needs, so get in now, while money is god, as it works iike a ratchet, with a high wage at the start tending to leverage up to more later.
It never becomes tedious, but as for the stress, oh yes. It breaks people. Good, clever people who could make a success in any area enter the city, and get spat out a broken mess only a few years later. Be under no illusion that the money comes without a cost.
You just need to ask yourself, punk, do you feel lucky. Roll a 1, leave after a year not having made it. 2 to 5, and win the lottery every year. Roll a six, though, and lose that part of your mind that makes you the person that you are. Feel your brains run form your ear, and watch all equilibrium depart, maybe forever.
Lifespan is what you want it to be (as long as you ae good at what you do). The reason that you see relatively few 50 year old traders is that most of them took the money and went home.
Rewards are larger, faster, and, er, larger, than accountancy, and the job tends to be a whole lot more interesting too.
The city is riding on a huge wave of optinism at the moment, and is unable to recruit the skilled people that it needs, so get in now, while money is god, as it works iike a ratchet, with a high wage at the start tending to leverage up to more later.
It never becomes tedious, but as for the stress, oh yes. It breaks people. Good, clever people who could make a success in any area enter the city, and get spat out a broken mess only a few years later. Be under no illusion that the money comes without a cost.
You just need to ask yourself, punk, do you feel lucky. Roll a 1, leave after a year not having made it. 2 to 5, and win the lottery every year. Roll a six, though, and lose that part of your mind that makes you the person that you are. Feel your brains run form your ear, and watch all equilibrium depart, maybe forever.
NorthernBoy said:
If you are interested in trading, then go for it directly. I cannot see any reason why you would spend time traing for something else first, as no other training will be as useful as actually doing the job.
Lifespan is what you want it to be (as long as you ae good at what you do). The reason that you see relatively few 50 year old traders is that most of them took the money and went home.
Rewards are larger, faster, and, er, larger, than accountancy, and the job tends to be a whole lot more interesting too.
The city is riding on a huge wave of optinism at the moment, and is unable to recruit the skilled people that it needs, so get in now, while money is god, as it works iike a ratchet, with a high wage at the start tending to leverage up to more later.
It never becomes tedious, but as for the stress, oh yes. It breaks people. Good, clever people who could make a success in any area enter the city, and get spat out a broken mess only a few years later. Be under no illusion that the money comes without a cost.
You just need to ask yourself, punk, do you feel lucky. Roll a 1, leave after a year not having made it. 2 to 5, and win the lottery every year. Roll a six, though, and lose that part of your mind that makes you the person that you are. Feel your brains run form your ear, and watch all equilibrium depart, maybe forever.
Thanks for the reply. It is probably my preferred career choice at the moment - just i'm concerned that the pressure may get too much or the constant having to perform every day could get a bit much but i'm willing to have a go for a bit and if worst comes to worst i'm young and can still apply to those places I mentioned in a year if needs be.Lifespan is what you want it to be (as long as you ae good at what you do). The reason that you see relatively few 50 year old traders is that most of them took the money and went home.
Rewards are larger, faster, and, er, larger, than accountancy, and the job tends to be a whole lot more interesting too.
The city is riding on a huge wave of optinism at the moment, and is unable to recruit the skilled people that it needs, so get in now, while money is god, as it works iike a ratchet, with a high wage at the start tending to leverage up to more later.
It never becomes tedious, but as for the stress, oh yes. It breaks people. Good, clever people who could make a success in any area enter the city, and get spat out a broken mess only a few years later. Be under no illusion that the money comes without a cost.
You just need to ask yourself, punk, do you feel lucky. Roll a 1, leave after a year not having made it. 2 to 5, and win the lottery every year. Roll a six, though, and lose that part of your mind that makes you the person that you are. Feel your brains run form your ear, and watch all equilibrium depart, maybe forever.
I've only been able to find a few positions on efinancialcareers for some smaller companies (one of which was MET traders who seem pretty small time) do you have any recommendations or a list of brokers I should be looking at as it's not the sort of the thing they advertise at the recruitment fairs and i'm fairly ignorant at the moment.
Many thanks for the help so far
Do not apply to brokers. They just intermediate between the traders. Apply to the banks, as that is where the real business takes place. There are many hundreds of banks in the city, but you ought to start with the bigger names. These do not advertise their graduate programs, as they simply have no need; they are always hugely oversubscribed, and they expect people to find them without a billoard pointing the way.
Start wih (but do not limit yourself to) some of these;
Deutsche
Goldman
Citi
Merril Lynch
Moran Stanley
Barclays
UBS
CSFB
BNP
Lehman
I'd probably give Kaupthing a miss if I were you,though, despite what others on here may say...
Start wih (but do not limit yourself to) some of these;
Deutsche
Goldman
Citi
Merril Lynch
Moran Stanley
Barclays
UBS
CSFB
BNP
Lehman
I'd probably give Kaupthing a miss if I were you,though, despite what others on here may say...
Thanks for that, i'll definitely look into those and more and i've also got a contact at Merril so i'll make a call too. Those banks don't specifically advertise for traders - goldman for example i'd just be applying as an analyst. Is this correct that first it's necessary to apply as an analyst and then later on one is assigned to a trading job?
No, the general route in is through the graduate training program. Outside that, people do not really look to employ traders from outside banking.
On the training course, though, you learn all the necessary skills, and then work on a few desks, trying to find a good fit. Desks want good graduates, so it is a great route in.
If you cannot take this route, then it is proably true that getitng an entry level job and working your way up is the next best path. It is a long way behind the traditional method, though, of graduate entry.
Good luck, and please drop me a line if you have any questions, I will be hppy to advise (but must admit, I am not able to offer any placements, sorry.)
On the training course, though, you learn all the necessary skills, and then work on a few desks, trying to find a good fit. Desks want good graduates, so it is a great route in.
If you cannot take this route, then it is proably true that getitng an entry level job and working your way up is the next best path. It is a long way behind the traditional method, though, of graduate entry.
Good luck, and please drop me a line if you have any questions, I will be hppy to advise (but must admit, I am not able to offer any placements, sorry.)
Hi, I am a trader from one of Northernboy's list of banks mentioned.
The only thing i would add that hasn't been mentioned is that if you can't get on a graduate program then I would take a look at the market and decide what area you would have most interest in i.e. commodities, equities etc etc.
Once you had decided on this read up as much as you can on this area so when you go to an interview you have an idea how the market works.
Good luck with it, and use your contacts wherever possible - the old saying of "who you know not what you know" still works !
The only thing i would add that hasn't been mentioned is that if you can't get on a graduate program then I would take a look at the market and decide what area you would have most interest in i.e. commodities, equities etc etc.
Once you had decided on this read up as much as you can on this area so when you go to an interview you have an idea how the market works.
Good luck with it, and use your contacts wherever possible - the old saying of "who you know not what you know" still works !
Thanks for all the replies so far - they're very helpful. I'm going to start getting on the case and start applying. The only problem is from their websites I appear to have missed the deadline and need to wait till August/September before they re-open. I've been told by other people that Banks recruit people all year round. Any ideas if the latter opinion is correct as if it's not I may have to wait a year to start working in a bank 
Graduate recruitment tends to only happen once a year. Direct entry for experienced staff happens as and when people leave, or are needed.
I'd add that you should apply to quite a few banks. Ten would not be unreasonable to start with. Although the ratio is better than it used to be (12,000 applicants for 150 places on my first course), there is still tough competition.
Remember that rejection letters go out before interview offers, so expect a stack of them before your first set of good news.
And take the process seriously. I used to get forms in with questions left blank, "N/A" in the box that asked for an example of a problem solved, and just a general state that suggested it was a real pain in the arse for them to have to bother applying neatly. They just went in the bin. Yu are asking for a job that probably starts you on 40,000 a year, before you have anything really to offer, and which can take you up to many hundreds of thousands a year down the road.
I know that the forms will seem painful to you, but do them well, as it comes across as insulting if someone does not try, given the riches they are possibly signing up for.
I'd add that you should apply to quite a few banks. Ten would not be unreasonable to start with. Although the ratio is better than it used to be (12,000 applicants for 150 places on my first course), there is still tough competition.
Remember that rejection letters go out before interview offers, so expect a stack of them before your first set of good news.
And take the process seriously. I used to get forms in with questions left blank, "N/A" in the box that asked for an example of a problem solved, and just a general state that suggested it was a real pain in the arse for them to have to bother applying neatly. They just went in the bin. Yu are asking for a job that probably starts you on 40,000 a year, before you have anything really to offer, and which can take you up to many hundreds of thousands a year down the road.
I know that the forms will seem painful to you, but do them well, as it comes across as insulting if someone does not try, given the riches they are possibly signing up for.
g4ry13 said:
Thanks for that, i'll definitely look into those and more and i've also got a contact at Merril so i'll make a call too. Those banks don't specifically advertise for traders - goldman for example i'd just be applying as an analyst. Is this correct that first it's necessary to apply as an analyst and then later on one is assigned to a trading job?
All Front Office positions, be it in Trading or Sales, Equity/Debt Capital Markets, M&A etc etc start new graduates as analysts. The ypical hierarchy isAnalyst
Associate
Vice President
Director
Managing Director.
You can go in direct as an Associate with an MBA or ACA (in Corporate Finance roles). VP and above are direct hires of experienced professionals.
mcflurry said:
g4ry13 said:
Thanks for that, i'll definitely look into those and more and i've also got a contact at Merril so i'll make a call too.
When you send your application, please spell Merrill Lynch correctly. The number of apps binned because people couldn't spell Deutsche was huge...
I'll also make sure I spell the other firms' names correctly too (although I don't think i'll need to type their name as it's all online applications.)Thanks for all the help so far, i've just got to wait until applications open and i'll probably get in touch with the Merrill Lynch guy if he has any helpful advice or can help me in any way.
PhillF said:
In the meantime, why not try and get some temping experience?
It'll give you something to talk about in your interview and show your enthusiasm for the role.
Temping in general or banking-related temping? I think I will look into some employment as the money will come in handy and I think i'll get bored doing what i'm doing for a few months. Also my cv's a bit empty It'll give you something to talk about in your interview and show your enthusiasm for the role.
Just got in touch today with my contact - I'll see if they have any wisdom to impart.
NorthernBoy said:
Do not apply to brokers. They just intermediate between the traders. Apply to the banks, as that is where the real business takes place. There are many hundreds of banks in the city, but you ought to start with the bigger names. These do not advertise their graduate programs, as they simply have no need; they are always hugely oversubscribed, and they expect people to find them without a billoard pointing the way.
Start wih (but do not limit yourself to) some of these;
Deutsche
Goldman
Citi
Merril Lynch
Moran Stanley
Barclays
UBS
CSFB
BNP
Lehman
I'd probably give Kaupthing a miss if I were you,though, despite what others on here may say...
Those are a good start and most if not all of them have excellent graduate training programmes. Their websites should have all the information you need.Start wih (but do not limit yourself to) some of these;
Deutsche
Goldman
Citi
Merril Lynch
Moran Stanley
Barclays
UBS
CSFB
BNP
Lehman
I'd probably give Kaupthing a miss if I were you,though, despite what others on here may say...
Strongs Math skills are essential and it goes without saying, that if you get to the interview stage, make sure you know something about the company and something about the area that is recruiting (if it's specific) or about the markets generally (if not).
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