CONSTRUCTIVE DISMISSAL
Discussion
I hope some of you will be able to help with some advice.
Thursday last week was a bad day at work (again). I cam home, craked open a beer and sat down to surf the web. Having exhausted ebay, Pistonheads, and all of my usual haunts I decided to look on Monster for a better job.
Typing in "Operations Manager" and my location brought up a number of jobs but top of the list was a well paid job for the Operations Manager of a company in my home town. On closer inspection the job description looked very familiar and then I noticed the adress and the name of my Managing Director as the contact for the position.
IT IS MY JOB!!!!
Ok so the job description covers a few things that I don't currently do and the salary is more than I get but the job title and general jist of the job match the title on my contract and the work that I do.
Now I have only been with the company since November but I have not been disciplined for anything nor even criticised by my line manager. In fact my line manager has said that I thinks the office is 100 times better than before I arived.
Before I go off to find a solicitor is there anything that I need to consider?
Thursday last week was a bad day at work (again). I cam home, craked open a beer and sat down to surf the web. Having exhausted ebay, Pistonheads, and all of my usual haunts I decided to look on Monster for a better job.
Typing in "Operations Manager" and my location brought up a number of jobs but top of the list was a well paid job for the Operations Manager of a company in my home town. On closer inspection the job description looked very familiar and then I noticed the adress and the name of my Managing Director as the contact for the position.
IT IS MY JOB!!!!
Ok so the job description covers a few things that I don't currently do and the salary is more than I get but the job title and general jist of the job match the title on my contract and the work that I do.
Now I have only been with the company since November but I have not been disciplined for anything nor even criticised by my line manager. In fact my line manager has said that I thinks the office is 100 times better than before I arived.
Before I go off to find a solicitor is there anything that I need to consider?
don't be so paranoid... maybe they are expanding and are parachuting a new role in above you.
sensible approach. is to pretend you have NOT seen this, but ask all the right questions of the md.
ie is there more reponsibilities work i can take on to strech me, like to do more, be kkn, obvioulsy would like more money for a bigger role, etc,etc...
should offer you something, as might be scared loosing a good employe to someone else, who just wants to get on.
I actually HAD a new chap introduce himself to me as my 'then current' job title....!!! there's a story. but basically cock up, i was doing 3 roles, or that was how the clients might be introduced to me...
sensible approach. is to pretend you have NOT seen this, but ask all the right questions of the md.
ie is there more reponsibilities work i can take on to strech me, like to do more, be kkn, obvioulsy would like more money for a bigger role, etc,etc...
should offer you something, as might be scared loosing a good employe to someone else, who just wants to get on.
I actually HAD a new chap introduce himself to me as my 'then current' job title....!!! there's a story. but basically cock up, i was doing 3 roles, or that was how the clients might be introduced to me...
take a look at this site and post your queries on there, it is full of solicitors and such that can help you out,
http://swarb.co.uk/phpbb/index.php
http://swarb.co.uk/phpbb/index.php
roadsweeper said:
Make sure you save a screenshot of the advert...
Agreed.At this stage I would do nothing. Constructive dismissale will be impossible to prove as your boss could say he was expanding the role etc to add to the company NOT replace you.
However, this may be the case that you are going to be replaced.
If this is the case you have three options. Sit tight and do nothing as you may have got the wrong end of the stick. Make a guess that you are going to be pushed out - although how they can do this legally will be difficult unless you are on a fixed contract - and use Monster to look for a new job in the meantime!
Or, you could be very cheeky and apply for the job yourself though the 'external' means through monster!
If nothing else, it will show 'I know what you are doing...' and force your boss into coming clean!
Some sage advice, most of which had crossed my mind. Although thanks very much for the link to the other forum. To add spice to the mix consider the following.
My line manager already knows about this, he has been to see a solicitor and has filed a formal grievance. I am sitting tight to see what the reaction is. It is his opinion that the MD is trying to replace both of us with one single manager.
The work load has recently been split. Another department was set up and has taken some of the workload that my department used to handle. The way it is split there is a clear difference in the sorts of customers we each have. I has become apparent that the other department's work load is increasing whilst ours is dwindling. Before you accuse me of being paranoid we are fed by the same sales team and so this cannot be as a result of one department winning more sales than the other. We are also processing the same product. I recently heard the manager of the other department telling a custoemr that her assistant would arange a service that in theory her customers do not require but all of mine do. Based on this evidence it looks to me as if my department is being squeezed out so that we can be made redundant. Of course in the process of any redundancy proceedure some employees may be offered alternative employment within the company and others are not so fortunate.
My line manager already knows about this, he has been to see a solicitor and has filed a formal grievance. I am sitting tight to see what the reaction is. It is his opinion that the MD is trying to replace both of us with one single manager.
The work load has recently been split. Another department was set up and has taken some of the workload that my department used to handle. The way it is split there is a clear difference in the sorts of customers we each have. I has become apparent that the other department's work load is increasing whilst ours is dwindling. Before you accuse me of being paranoid we are fed by the same sales team and so this cannot be as a result of one department winning more sales than the other. We are also processing the same product. I recently heard the manager of the other department telling a custoemr that her assistant would arange a service that in theory her customers do not require but all of mine do. Based on this evidence it looks to me as if my department is being squeezed out so that we can be made redundant. Of course in the process of any redundancy proceedure some employees may be offered alternative employment within the company and others are not so fortunate.
If by boss was an inspiring leader of men who was capable of getting the best from all of his employees. If he could get them to cheerfully do what he wanted them to do and if they were all empowered to do what the company needed them to do, I would not want to look on Monster!
As it is he is an ordinary bloke doing his best like the rest of us, but I think that what might be going on is a little under hand.
We do not need any more managers. For the cost of this one manager we could have 3 new members of staff to form a customer service team. Our customers' biggest complaint is that the phone lines are always jammed and we never call them back.
As it is he is an ordinary bloke doing his best like the rest of us, but I think that what might be going on is a little under hand.
We do not need any more managers. For the cost of this one manager we could have 3 new members of staff to form a customer service team. Our customers' biggest complaint is that the phone lines are always jammed and we never call them back.
You have less that one years service so you could only claim constructive dismissal for an automatically unfair reason - which at first glance, your circumstances aren't
I'd just ask th eboss what the SP is - might be he's testing the market to see there really is on-one better than you out there....
I'd just ask th eboss what the SP is - might be he's testing the market to see there really is on-one better than you out there....
The govt websites usually have decent info on them. This is their spiel about Constructive Dismissal
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/R...
From what you have said it doesn't appear that it can be deemed as constructive dismissal at this point in time.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/R...
From what you have said it doesn't appear that it can be deemed as constructive dismissal at this point in time.
D Stanley said:
If by boss was an inspiring leader of men who was capable of getting the best from all of his employees. If he could get them to cheerfully do what he wanted them to do and if they were all empowered to do what the company needed them to do, I would not want to look on Monster!
As it is he is an ordinary bloke doing his best like the rest of us, but I think that what might be going on is a little under hand.
We do not need any more managers. For the cost of this one manager we could have 3 new members of staff to form a customer service team. Our customers' biggest complaint is that the phone lines are always jammed and we never call them back.
I agree, its a difficult situation.As it is he is an ordinary bloke doing his best like the rest of us, but I think that what might be going on is a little under hand.
We do not need any more managers. For the cost of this one manager we could have 3 new members of staff to form a customer service team. Our customers' biggest complaint is that the phone lines are always jammed and we never call them back.
It may be that it is nothing against you personally, but there really is being a restructure. With the shoe on the other foot, it is a difficult situation for the boss as well.
Unfortunately as others have said your short length of service meant that your employment rights are limited really to the most clean cut of cases. If a redundancy is on the cards then I think the best way for you would be to get things out in the open. Your manager has gone about things the right way by laying the 'legal cards' on the table so that as least a formal grievance is registered.
If it were me though I would be very tempted to make an appointment with the 'big boss' and just explain your position in a frank and open way. That should prompt him into doing the same and at least you can make informed judgements from information from the 'horses mouth'.
Batfink said:
my brother walked in one day to be told to walk, as he hadent been there a year he had to get them on breech of contract as they didnt follow their own procedures in his employee handbook. Got a few grand out of them 
Must have been the contractual notice period payment only; within 12 months, or strictly, 11 months 3 weeks and 3 days, the employee does not have employment rights unless an automatically unfair scenario is apparent. Unfair Dismissal claims for compensation for loss of earnings can only be made after 12 months employment ( subject to the above caveat)Batfink said:
my brother walked in one day to be told to walk, as he hadent been there a year he had to get them on breech of contract as they didnt follow their own procedures in his employee handbook. Got a few grand out of them
Was that at tribunal or settlement from the Employer?Lots of employers will payout rather than go to tribunal just because they don't want the hassle of going through the process or are cautious of potential adverse publicity generated by a judgement against them. Those factors seem quite prevalent in the minds of businesses as to get to tribunal an employee needs to be judged as having a reasonable case, yet there is around a 50% success rate once they get there.
RichBurley said:
Batfink said:
my brother walked in one day to be told to walk, as he hadent been there a year he had to get them on breech of contract as they didnt follow their own procedures in his employee handbook. Got a few grand out of them
Must have been the contractual notice period payment only; within 12 months, or strictly, 11 months 3 weeks and 3 days, the employee does not have employment rights unless an automatically unfair scenario is apparent. Unfair Dismissal claims for compensation for loss of earnings can only be made after 12 months employment ( subject to the above caveat)The only slight addition to the employment law scenario would be a breach of contract situation. This may be not immediately apparant and also blurring the lines into employment law. An example might be in the contract it may refer to the Employee Handbook. That might say that the discplinary procedure is two verbal warnings followed by 2 written warnings and a final warning whereby each time the employee is allowed a union rep and must be forwarded by 7 days yada yada yada.
If for example this procedure is not followed then if it doesnt already encroach into the application of employment law it would certainly be able to be fought in contract law. The ex-employee could argue that his rights were not upheld in one of the hearings (if they took place at all) and could then argue that he would still be employed today and sue for loss of earnings!
I am not convinced in this situation that the employer has done anything legally wrong, although it is awful planning and very poor for motivation and now could easily backfire.
JohnP68 said:
Can I be controversial and suggest that if you don't like what they have done just resign and get a job elsewhere. Personally I'm sick of the compensation culture and people running to the lawyers whenever they think there's a chance of making a fast buck.
I agree with the sentiment, and in practical terms this may be the 'easiest' way forward for the OP, but I dont think that in this situation that the OP is out for the money, just to find out what the score is an how this affects his job!I also agree with the compensation culture issue, and what the 'vultures' who feed the culture dont realise is that it is in fact they who will end up being stung when the culture changes.
For example since the tribunal hearings have gone no win no fee, how many companies now only employ people on fixed term 1 year contracts, instead of the traditional potential lifetime of employment with a company? Who loses in the end?
It has even eeked into customer satisfaction. I would now say that in my business that on the odd occasion that I am called in to give a decision from the top there the customers first concern is not to have their problem solved but to demand compensation - usually completely unrelative to the complaint - actually solving the problem to satisfaction promptly, which is what we would do anyway is an afterthought...
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