15,000sq/ft residential development
Discussion
Any developers/property guru's care to offer advise?
I currently run my business (Ltd Co. sole director/shareholder) from freehold premises in a nice rural area. The property is an old victorian school with much character. I am considering relocating the business to a nearby industrial estate unit and developing/selling the exisiting site.
The entire site, land & buildings is approx. 15,000sq/ft and located on a major A Road. Up until 2004, the building was split use residential/commercial but is now 100% commercial use.
Having never undertaken such a project i'm a little confused as to the best route of attack.
Thanks in advance.
I currently run my business (Ltd Co. sole director/shareholder) from freehold premises in a nice rural area. The property is an old victorian school with much character. I am considering relocating the business to a nearby industrial estate unit and developing/selling the exisiting site.
The entire site, land & buildings is approx. 15,000sq/ft and located on a major A Road. Up until 2004, the building was split use residential/commercial but is now 100% commercial use.
Having never undertaken such a project i'm a little confused as to the best route of attack.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks for the very prompt replies so far.
I know that there would be no problem in reverting back to residential status as this has come up before.
My main dilema is which route to go down for maximum financial return. As far as I see it, the biggest return would be acheived by obtaining outline planning for (x) new houses to be built on the site and sell to a builder/developer. Obviously, this would require the demolishing of the existing school which there may be objections to doing. Option 2 would be to convert the existing school in to either 1 large house or split to make several dwellings. Option 3 is to sell the site as commercial in it's current state.
I don't want to get screwed on this one but appreciate that paying someone knowledgeable to manage things would be money well spent.
I know that there would be no problem in reverting back to residential status as this has come up before.
My main dilema is which route to go down for maximum financial return. As far as I see it, the biggest return would be acheived by obtaining outline planning for (x) new houses to be built on the site and sell to a builder/developer. Obviously, this would require the demolishing of the existing school which there may be objections to doing. Option 2 would be to convert the existing school in to either 1 large house or split to make several dwellings. Option 3 is to sell the site as commercial in it's current state.
I don't want to get screwed on this one but appreciate that paying someone knowledgeable to manage things would be money well spent.
Edited by The Bear on Wednesday 1st August 12:57
The least expensive way of getting ideas is to talk to a developer, such as Redrow etc, and ask if they'd be interested in buying it and developing it.
They would probably offer you an option fee on the site and then buy it at market value with full planning permission.
You can talk to several developers and see what they propose.
These people have the teams already in place to maximise the development and talk to the planners.
- or you can of course go it alone which may well be more profitable but more work.
They would probably offer you an option fee on the site and then buy it at market value with full planning permission.
You can talk to several developers and see what they propose.
These people have the teams already in place to maximise the development and talk to the planners.
- or you can of course go it alone which may well be more profitable but more work.
The Bear said:
Thanks for the very prompt replies so far.
I know that there would be no problem in reverting back to residential status as this has come up before.
My main dilema is which route to go down for maximum financial return. As far as I see it, the biggest return would be acheived by obtaining outline planning for (x) new houses to be built on the site and sell to a builder/developer. Obviously, this would require the demolishing of the existing school which there may be objections to doing. Option 2 would be to convert the existing school in to either 1 large house or split to make several dwellings. Option 3 is to sell the site as commercial in it's current state.
I don't want to get screwed on this one but appreciate that paying someone knowledgeable to manage things would be money well spent.
Not too sure on your stated options there.....I know that there would be no problem in reverting back to residential status as this has come up before.
My main dilema is which route to go down for maximum financial return. As far as I see it, the biggest return would be acheived by obtaining outline planning for (x) new houses to be built on the site and sell to a builder/developer. Obviously, this would require the demolishing of the existing school which there may be objections to doing. Option 2 would be to convert the existing school in to either 1 large house or split to make several dwellings. Option 3 is to sell the site as commercial in it's current state.
I don't want to get screwed on this one but appreciate that paying someone knowledgeable to manage things would be money well spent.
Edited by The Bear on Wednesday 1st August 12:57
There is nothing stopping you trying to get outline planning on the site without altering its current state at all. You could do that even if you did not own the property!
In order to pursue this option I would use a local architect to draw up plans etc and take to planning stage. This is providing you are confident that there is fair chance of success.
Assuming you are successful then the land will definitely command a higher price, and indeed interest many more potential buyers....
Alternatively, as you say, you dont spent any time/money of your own, and just market it as is...
I think that you should explore obtaining outline planning consent for residential use before you market it. That way you eliminate one major obstacle to your getting the maximum return. If there are other significant issues which limit the value of the site (I've no idea what these might be, say proper vehicle access for example) you should try to eliminate them before you sell, otherwise the value will be discounted by the cost of the effort of sorting them. You may then consider speaking to a commercial estate agent, or indeed a few of them to see who you think is best equipped to sell it for you and what they would charge. Always keep a bit of competition. The open market might be the best route, but watch your marketing costs, such as advertising. You might be surprised how much competition there is for your site and the various deals which might be offered. A housebuilder will always try to do a private 'off-market deal' with you, and this is always to get it without the competition.
I wouldn't consider trying to do it yourself. You are not a residential property pro and you will make a horlicks of it, fail to maximise the return, and run up big professional bills. You might be offered a share in the profit as part of the purchase, but why take the risk?
I wouldn't consider trying to do it yourself. You are not a residential property pro and you will make a horlicks of it, fail to maximise the return, and run up big professional bills. You might be offered a share in the profit as part of the purchase, but why take the risk?
By my rough calcs, you have about 1390 sqm plot - this is about 1/3 acre. IF the area the site is located could bear decent, detatched housing, you could maybe squeeze 3 or 4 detathced houses on there. If surrounding properties are more like semi's etc, you will get more, smaller units. As others have said, find a deent architect and undertake the outline planning yourself. THough there are pitfalls, at the outline stage it is pretty small beer.
I would speak to local and national housing developers, and see what they say.
You will never maximise the amount you can get purley because you are not experienced at doing development work. What you want to do is maximise your return and minimise your work and expenditure.
Even if you apply for planning consent you might apply for 15 units as thats all the planners say they'll grant. A developer then buys the plot from you and gets permission for 20 units as they know how to work the system. You have promptly lost out!
So accept you are not going to get the best result yourself and speak direct to developers and save yourself architects, planners etc fees.
You will never maximise the amount you can get purley because you are not experienced at doing development work. What you want to do is maximise your return and minimise your work and expenditure.
Even if you apply for planning consent you might apply for 15 units as thats all the planners say they'll grant. A developer then buys the plot from you and gets permission for 20 units as they know how to work the system. You have promptly lost out!
So accept you are not going to get the best result yourself and speak direct to developers and save yourself architects, planners etc fees.
Chrisgr31 said:
I would speak to local and national housing developers, and see what they say.
You will never maximise the amount you can get purley because you are not experienced at doing development work. What you want to do is maximise your return and minimise your work and expenditure.
Even if you apply for planning consent you might apply for 15 units as thats all the planners say they'll grant. A developer then buys the plot from you and gets permission for 20 units as they know how to work the system. You have promptly lost out!
So accept you are not going to get the best result yourself and speak direct to developers and save yourself architects, planners etc fees.
:Scratchchin:You will never maximise the amount you can get purley because you are not experienced at doing development work. What you want to do is maximise your return and minimise your work and expenditure.
Even if you apply for planning consent you might apply for 15 units as thats all the planners say they'll grant. A developer then buys the plot from you and gets permission for 20 units as they know how to work the system. You have promptly lost out!
So accept you are not going to get the best result yourself and speak direct to developers and save yourself architects, planners etc fees.
I really dont see the argument there...... are you saying that the national housing developers will tell him how many houses they can get on there and then, out of the goodness of their heart, pay him top dollar....????
Your last but one paragraph makes the most sense imho...get the permission for what you can, thereby increasing the value of the land...sure, if the developer comes along and manages to get permission for, and build, more then fine, thats what they are in business for....
WWESTY said:
:Scratchchin:
I really dont see the argument there...... are you saying that the national housing developers will tell him how many houses they can get on there and then, out of the goodness of their heart, pay him top dollar....????
Your last but one paragraph makes the most sense imho...get the permission for what you can, thereby increasing the value of the land...sure, if the developer comes along and manages to get permission for, and build, more then fine, thats what they are in business for....
My guess is that if he is told by planners he'll only get 15 units whilst a developer gets 20 units in about 9 months we'll have a post along the lines of:- I really dont see the argument there...... are you saying that the national housing developers will tell him how many houses they can get on there and then, out of the goodness of their heart, pay him top dollar....????
Your last but one paragraph makes the most sense imho...get the permission for what you can, thereby increasing the value of the land...sure, if the developer comes along and manages to get permission for, and build, more then fine, thats what they are in business for....
"I've been stitched up by planners who said I'd only get 15 units but they have given CashPaid Developers permission for 20 units so I have lost out. What do I do?"
Getting planning permission will not necessarially increase the value that much because if the land is zoned for residential, and the planners say you'll get say 15 units then thats what everyone will value the land as. Albeit they will deduct the cost of actually getting the planning consent. The only way to get a true increase in value by getting planning consent is to get consent for something that is not expected. So if the OP got consent for 30 units rather than the 25 expected by the developers that would add value. But would of course cost a fortune in architect and planners fees.
By speaking to a number of developers the OP is more likely to get an opinion of what they will build, he could also include in the sale a clawback clause so they pay him say £250,000 now plus say £25,000 for every additional unit built over say 15. By sellong direct without consent he'll also save himself the hassle and cost of getting planning consent.
If funds allow I would find a good architect and get planning on the site. by that i been one who is used to working with developers and know what they want, even if it was outline premission showing less detailed design.
You could alternitively sign a contract with the developer so that the cover all of the planning costs but once they have planning you will have to sell to them at an agreed price, I think this is the way things are often done.
I think by selling as a plot without planning will limit your market as the developer will need to sit of the land having already paid for it for what could be a couple of years.
You could alternitively sign a contract with the developer so that the cover all of the planning costs but once they have planning you will have to sell to them at an agreed price, I think this is the way things are often done.
I think by selling as a plot without planning will limit your market as the developer will need to sit of the land having already paid for it for what could be a couple of years.
Thanks for all the input guys, it's all very helpful. 
Also, thanks for those who have sent me e-mail, I may be in touch.
Following a brief chat with the local council planning office, they have already thrown me my first curve ball.
Apparently, because the site is some 300 metres (1 field) detached from the main village, there may be problems in gaining permission for a residential development.
As has been suggested, I need to find an architect who works with local developers and has experience dealing with similar sites.
Also, thanks for those who have sent me e-mail, I may be in touch.Following a brief chat with the local council planning office, they have already thrown me my first curve ball.
Apparently, because the site is some 300 metres (1 field) detached from the main village, there may be problems in gaining permission for a residential development.As has been suggested, I need to find an architect who works with local developers and has experience dealing with similar sites.
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