Redundancy guidelines

[lingus75]

The company my Mother works for has re-located about 12 miles from its current base and as a result have told my Mother that she still has a job if she wants one. However, over the last ten or so years my Mother has worked on the night shift as she prefers to have part of her day free for Grandchildren.

The problem is now the move is going ahead there may not be the possibility of the night shift and also the extra travelling time at night worries my Mother. The company have said that they have done all they have to, to accommodate and she can leave if she wants. My Mother has put in around 14 years with this company and as only one of the night-shift staff who actually turn up you would think they may other options for her.

My question is; can my Mother insist that if they do not want to pay her redundancy, on the grounds that they are offered her another job, that she has to be offered a position with the same hours etc.........?

I know they have at least offered her a job but the circumstances are very different.

Thanks.

[RichBurley]

lingus75 said:

The company my Mother works for has re-located about 12 miles from its current base and as a result have told my Mother that she still has a job if she wants one. However, over the last ten or so years my Mother has worked on the night shift as she prefers to have part of her day free for Grandchildren.

The problem is now the move is going ahead there may not be the possibility of the night shift and also the extra travelling time at night worries my Mother. The company have said that they have done all they have to, to accommodate and she can leave if she wants. My Mother has put in around 14 years with this company and as only one of the night-shift staff who actually turn up you would think they may other options for her.

My question is; can my Mother insist that if they do not want to pay her redundancy, on the grounds that they are offered her another job, that she has to be offered a position with the same hours etc.........?

I know they have at least offered her a job but the circumstances are very different.

Thanks.

Your mother cannot force the employer to do that. They have re-organised, and essentially the position is redundant; your mother is entitled to a redundancy payment, if she doesn't stay there.

[Eric Mc]

Look up the ACAS website. It has some good information regarding redundancy and employee rights.

(I presume you're in the UK - with a name like Lingus75 I always think there might be an Irish connection somewhere i.e. Aer Lingus).

[lingus75]

Eric Mc said:

Look up the ACAS website. It has some good information regarding redundancy and employee rights.

(I presume you're in the UK - with a name like Lingus75 I always think there might be an Irish connection somewhere i.e. Aer Lingus).

The problem is that my Mother owuld certainly take redundancy but they are not offering anything ata ll. They state that as they are offering her another position somewhere else they do not have to offer anything of monetary value. This does not surprise me as their record of similar situations is more about what they can get away with rather than care of staff.

Based in Cheltenham with no Irish connections! Lingus is an old nickname from a an ex

[RichBurley]

lingus75 said:

Eric Mc said:

Look up the ACAS website. It has some good information regarding redundancy and employee rights.

(I presume you're in the UK - with a name like Lingus75 I always think there might be an Irish connection somewhere i.e. Aer Lingus).

The problem is that my Mother owuld certainly take redundancy but they are not offering anything ata ll. They state that as they are offering her another position somewhere else they do not have to offer anything of monetary value. This does not surprise me as their record of similar situations is more about what they can get away with rather than care of staff.

Based in Cheltenham with no Irish connections! Lingus is an old nickname from a an ex

Well, they are wrong. She has been made redundant from her position. They have, quite correctly, offered her another job, but that doesn't mean that she hasn't been made redundant. She should put it in writing, that they have made her redundant, seeking their confirmation, and redundancy proposals. If no offer, then the letter should say it is to be treated as a grievance.

[StevieBee]

lingus75 said:

Lingus is an old nickname from a an ex

Cunning!

[M400 NBL]

As another poster has suggested, check the Acas site. I was made redundant a little over a year ago after the company relocated around 100 miles away....but there was the possibility of a colleague working in a sister company around 6 miles. My colleague didn't have to take this job because it was far away enough away. I'm sure the distance was around >4 miles for a company not to have to offer redundancy.

Check Acas.org and if your Mother is entitled to redundancy she should deal with the HR in her company. If they don't know the latest employee law (which wouldn't surprise me as it changes quite often) then your Mother should ask them to check out Acas...or the Gov website. THe only downer is, is that she will no doubt get the Gov minimum.

Unless it has changed, for every year your mother has worked there over the age of 41, she will be entitled to a little more.

I wish her luck. Let us know how she gets on

[odyssey2200]

Definately talk to ACAS

I got canned last with a total lack of regard for employment law.

No period of Consultation
No selection process

At ACAS advise I went to Employment Tribunal and got just over £20k compensation.

Hard work battling with your company who will do all they can to convince you that they are right and you are wrong, but worth every min.
And the best part is it costs nothing to do.

Every HR professional I spoke to said basically the same thing.
First rule of Employment Tribunal is. The Company Loses!

Good luck!!

[Deva Link]

I think some of the advice here is wrong. Mrs DL's Civil Service job ceased to exist last year - she's one of many thousands whose jobs are quietly disappearing. Even with the large unions involved the employer only had to be 'reasonable' - a similar job in a location that's not too dificult to get to.

Wifey was offered a call-centre job (quite a lot different from her old job) an hours awkward drive away and that was considered (by the union) to be fine.

[M400 NBL]

Deva Link said:

I think some of the advice here is wrong. Mrs DL's Civil Service job ceased to exist last year - she's one of many thousands whose jobs are quietly disappearing. Even with the large unions involved the employer only had to be 'reasonable' - a similar job in a location that's not too dificult to get to.

Wifey was offered a call-centre job (quite a lot different from her old job) an hours awkward drive away and that was considered (by the union) to be fine.

But if the relocation is far enough, she will be entitled to the government minimum, something like 1 week/every full year of service upto the age of 41, and 2 weeks/every full year over the age of 41.

There are exceptions such as very young employees and those with very little service. but the OP's mother should be entitled to redundancy, based on my redundancy less than 2 years ago.

[RichBurley]

Deva Link said:

I think some of the advice here is wrong. Mrs DL's Civil Service job ceased to exist last year - she's one of many thousands whose jobs are quietly disappearing. Even with the large unions involved the employer only had to be 'reasonable' - a similar job in a location that's not too dificult to get to.

Wifey was offered a call-centre job (quite a lot different from her old job) an hours awkward drive away and that was considered (by the union) to be fine.

I think you're missing the point on redundancy. What the employer can squeeze by the Union does not constitute what is acceptable, or not in law. The Unions will accept less than Employmet rules require sometimes!

Also, the OP's mother mightno even offered the same terms and conditions as before!

[Deva Link]

M400 NBL said:

Deva Link said:

I think some of the advice here is wrong. Mrs DL's Civil Service job ceased to exist last year - she's one of many thousands whose jobs are quietly disappearing. Even with the large unions involved the employer only had to be 'reasonable' - a similar job in a location that's not too dificult to get to.

Wifey was offered a call-centre job (quite a lot different from her old job) an hours awkward drive away and that was considered (by the union) to be fine.

But if the relocation is far enough, she will be entitled to the government minimum, something like 1 week/every full year of service upto the age of 41, and 2 weeks/every full year over the age of 41.

That's (one of) the issues - how far is "far enough"? The OP is talking about 12 miles. If it's an easy 12 mile car journey then that's likely to be fine. If it's 3 unreliable buses away then it's probably not.

[Deva Link]

RichBurley said:

Deva Link said:

I think some of the advice here is wrong. Mrs DL's Civil Service job ceased to exist last year - she's one of many thousands whose jobs are quietly disappearing. Even with the large unions involved the employer only had to be 'reasonable' - a similar job in a location that's not too dificult to get to.

Wifey was offered a call-centre job (quite a lot different from her old job) an hours awkward drive away and that was considered (by the union) to be fine.

I think you're missing the point on redundancy. What the employer can squeeze by the Union does not constitute what is acceptable, or not in law. The Unions will accept less than Employmet rules require sometimes!

Why would the unions (especially a well funded and organised union like PCS who are fighting Civil Service redundancis on a national level) accept less than the Employment laws require?

RichBurley said:

Also, the OP's mother mightno even offered the same terms and conditions as before!

They don't have to be the same - only broadly similar. If you dispute broadly similar then it can be resolved at an Employment Tribunal but they won't be happy if the employer is seen to be trying to help.

Edited by Deva Link on Tuesday 25th September 08:49

[RichBurley]

Deva Link said:

RichBurley said:

Deva Link said:

I think some of the advice here is wrong. Mrs DL's Civil Service job ceased to exist last year - she's one of many thousands whose jobs are quietly disappearing. Even with the large unions involved the employer only had to be 'reasonable' - a similar job in a location that's not too dificult to get to.

Wifey was offered a call-centre job (quite a lot different from her old job) an hours awkward drive away and that was considered (by the union) to be fine.

I think you're missing the point on redundancy. What the employer can squeeze by the Union does not constitute what is acceptable, or not in law. The Unions will accept less than Employmet rules require sometimes!

Why would the unions (especially a well funded and organised union like PCS who are fighting Civil Service redundancis on a national level) accept less than the Employment laws require?

RichBurley said:

Also, the OP's mother mightno even offered the same terms and conditions as before!

They don't have to be the same - only broadly similar. If you dispute broadly similar then it can be resolved at an Employment Tribunal but they won't be happy if the employer is seen to be trying to help.

Edited by Deva Link on Tuesday 25th September 08:49

Why would the Unions accept less than Employment Law standards? (let's not start discussing how well funded and organised they might or might not be, it just makes you sound biased; I don't know why)

Because they are "fighting" to safeguard as many jobs as possible. It therefore follows that some employees lose out, in order that the majority benefit.

Net result, Union is happy, but some people have been unlawfully treated by their employer.


Also, re the "broadly" similar; well, we're looking at no longer night shift, no longer in the same location (12 miles away), and potentially different job spec; although not sure on that one. That sounds like a redundancy situation to me.

The OP's mother needs to take specific legal advice on this point.

[lingus75]

It seems that there are quite a few issues that could confuse the situation here. I will definatley be getting my Mother to call ACAS to explain the situation as it seems she will certainly be entitled to something.

I know that the comapny will attempt to wriggle out of this but as long as all the facts are presented to them I think they will be hard pressed to refuse.

Thanks for all the help and I will certainly keep this updated. Anymore thoughts appreciated.

[M400 NBL]

Deva Link said:

M400 NBL said:

Deva Link said:

I think some of the advice here is wrong. Mrs DL's Civil Service job ceased to exist last year - she's one of many thousands whose jobs are quietly disappearing. Even with the large unions involved the employer only had to be 'reasonable' - a similar job in a location that's not too dificult to get to.

Wifey was offered a call-centre job (quite a lot different from her old job) an hours awkward drive away and that was considered (by the union) to be fine.

But if the relocation is far enough, she will be entitled to the government minimum, something like 1 week/every full year of service upto the age of 41, and 2 weeks/every full year over the age of 41.

That's (one of) the issues - how far is "far enough"? The OP is talking about 12 miles. If it's an easy 12 mile car journey then that's likely to be fine. If it's 3 unreliable buses away then it's probably not.

12 miles isn't much to the average commuter these days, but it is to a non driver....or someone that simply doesn't want to spend more than necessary to get to and from work.

I am pretty sure 12 miles excedes the distance for an employer to move without going down the redundancy route.

[pugwash4x4]

from a business owners point of view i think the OP's mother is being extremely money grabbing here.

She isn't being made redundant in anyway- they are moving a very short distance down the road (and come on 12 miles is nothing) have specifically told her that she is keeping her job but she can't have it exactly how she wants it- that's life FFS

if she doesn't want the job then don't work there- it's not like the company are being unreasonable in anyway. But if she doesn't want to work in a reasonable job then she should leave on her own accord. This liberal attitude of "oh you don't like it- have some money" is destroying growth and profitability in the UK and it's really really depressing watching everyone's money grabbing tendencies come out of the woodwork!