Greenfield Land as a future prospect ???
Discussion
I was contacted about some 'strategic' plots of Greenbelt land - strategic in that they are well placed to be used in the future and are likely to be granted brownfield status: close to transport links, businesses, etc etc. Very cheap if you consider what the land could be worth if they were to ever get permission to build...
Has anyone bought or thought of buying land in this way, whether your intention was to build or sell on?
Someone on here knows property, is it Piglet?? Let me know your thoughts
Has anyone bought or thought of buying land in this way, whether your intention was to build or sell on?
Someone on here knows property, is it Piglet?? Let me know your thoughts
Scam, almost certaintly.
You can have an informal chat with the planners and ask if permission is ever likely to be granted.
Unless the land is right on the village planning boundary (which therefore precludes a bargain) then theres little or no chance I suspect.
Unless you're paying agri prices and willing to sit on it for decades I'd swerve to be honest.
You can have an informal chat with the planners and ask if permission is ever likely to be granted.
Unless the land is right on the village planning boundary (which therefore precludes a bargain) then theres little or no chance I suspect.
Unless you're paying agri prices and willing to sit on it for decades I'd swerve to be honest.
Something I'd thought of before, This country is an island at the end of the day and we'll eventually have to start building on some 'greenbelt' land.
As is the famous saying 'buy land they don't make it anymore'
p.s Would be interested to know of any websites there are with more information on this.
As is the famous saying 'buy land they don't make it anymore'
p.s Would be interested to know of any websites there are with more information on this.
Plotloss said:
Scam, almost certaintly.
You can have an informal chat with the planners and ask if permission is ever likely to be granted.
Unless the land is right on the village planning boundary (which therefore precludes a bargain) then theres little or no chance I suspect.
Unless you're paying agri prices and willing to sit on it for decades I'd swerve to be honest.
That's interesting you say that - and does support my own reservations. The thing is that - they have a mass of land on the edge of a nice part of Essex and 70% of the plots have been sold - a plot big enough for a two bed detached is £9000. I worry that my paranoia may be over active and that it could be a great investment. IF it were to be granted status, the land would shoot up in value; the risk is in the fact that it may never be given that status.You can have an informal chat with the planners and ask if permission is ever likely to be granted.
Unless the land is right on the village planning boundary (which therefore precludes a bargain) then theres little or no chance I suspect.
Unless you're paying agri prices and willing to sit on it for decades I'd swerve to be honest.
Thanks for your thoughts on this guys
Is this one of those things where Company X buy 10 acres at agri prices and then flip 50 plots for a massive profit to unsuspecting punters who dont understand just how bejackbooted that planners actually are?
Theres on of those just happened up Gerrards Cross/Fulmer way, made national news when a planner stated no chance, certaintly not in my lifetime.
Theres on of those just happened up Gerrards Cross/Fulmer way, made national news when a planner stated no chance, certaintly not in my lifetime.
LDNrevs said:
Plotloss said:
Scam, almost certaintly.
You can have an informal chat with the planners and ask if permission is ever likely to be granted.
Unless the land is right on the village planning boundary (which therefore precludes a bargain) then theres little or no chance I suspect.
Unless you're paying agri prices and willing to sit on it for decades I'd swerve to be honest.
That's interesting you say that - and does support my own reservations. The thing is that - they have a mass of land on the edge of a nice part of Essex and 70% of the plots have been sold - a plot big enough for a two bed detached is £9000. I worry that my paranoia may be over active and that it could be a great investment. IF it were to be granted status, the land would shoot up in value; the risk is in the fact that it may never be given that status.You can have an informal chat with the planners and ask if permission is ever likely to be granted.
Unless the land is right on the village planning boundary (which therefore precludes a bargain) then theres little or no chance I suspect.
Unless you're paying agri prices and willing to sit on it for decades I'd swerve to be honest.
Thanks for your thoughts on this guys
Firstly, the concept is correct, we WILL have to start building on some greenbelt land in some areas - that does leave space for speculation.
Secondly, lets fast forward 10 years - your 5-10 acres of land get planning permission for a housing development and you can flog it for a seven figure sum to a big developing company - all good.
The way it WON't happen is that a field split into small plots with different owners will get permission. Firstly, who will apply? Who will get all of the owners together, and who will control the building. You can bet your house (literally) that the planning department won't come down to the site, cut a ribbon and each owner can build their own house how they want, when they want... and where to the roads go for example....!
Sales like this are perfectly legal, but they are looking for someone who wants to make a buck with little knowledge of how it would actually work in ten years time, of course the person selling the land wont care about that.
As Plotloss has said, someone has merely bought up a big field and is flipping small plots on for a profit.
The last point is that for economic reasons planning is unlikely to be given on the edge of London. As a city the population is actually finely balanced in a way which more outlying areas arnt. Swindon, Reading maybe but I would say greenbelt on the edge of London is the last place.
We buy land this way all the time. Obviously there's a potentially massive profit to be made, but you have to know what you're doing and to have the resources to sit on it as a 'strategic' investment.
We would either buy a long-term option on the land, however, or simply buy an entire farm which is then let out to an agricultural tenant until such time as it is re-zoned for development.
I'd tend to agree with the others who shout 'scam', when it comes to these companies who parcel out 'plots' of land as a future prospect. If there was a serious chance of it coming forward in the near future, they'd simply broker the whole lot to a development company like ours, instead of fannying around with the legal costs of selling it piecemeal.
We would either buy a long-term option on the land, however, or simply buy an entire farm which is then let out to an agricultural tenant until such time as it is re-zoned for development.
I'd tend to agree with the others who shout 'scam', when it comes to these companies who parcel out 'plots' of land as a future prospect. If there was a serious chance of it coming forward in the near future, they'd simply broker the whole lot to a development company like ours, instead of fannying around with the legal costs of selling it piecemeal.
Edited by Sam_68 on Friday 19th October 12:40
Any viable site would be snapped up by a real developer?!?!
ie why would a company sell you a share, of something so profitable. unless to take the money and run...
Numerous companies set up to do landbanking scam, lots gone under, in administraion or closed down by authorities...
One tried near us, and several other locations, green belt, not in development plan. AND SEVERE risk of flooding, according to environ agency, company called rubicon estates. now gone under..
marketing was sell you a plot, reality was sell you a share in a limited copany that owned the 'field'
leaving 500 share holders of a ltd company that owned an agriculrural field... EVEN if it was possible to get planning, how on earth would it happen, ie 500 punters owning one share, where is the money coming from to appoint archttectcs, etc,etc, lawyers, and get planning...
worst of it local estate agent went along with it, marketed it had appoinments in local office...
should have seen the look on face when i pulled out a map of flood risks - severe -at a meeting of public... given 2-3 years ago flooding around the country, and asked how in hell it would ever get planning...
and ask the question, if it is so profitable, why are you not developing it yourselves...
public of course are muppets, and didn't want to let reality get in the way of their greed.
B
ie why would a company sell you a share, of something so profitable. unless to take the money and run...
Numerous companies set up to do landbanking scam, lots gone under, in administraion or closed down by authorities...
One tried near us, and several other locations, green belt, not in development plan. AND SEVERE risk of flooding, according to environ agency, company called rubicon estates. now gone under..
marketing was sell you a plot, reality was sell you a share in a limited copany that owned the 'field'
leaving 500 share holders of a ltd company that owned an agriculrural field... EVEN if it was possible to get planning, how on earth would it happen, ie 500 punters owning one share, where is the money coming from to appoint archttectcs, etc,etc, lawyers, and get planning...
worst of it local estate agent went along with it, marketed it had appoinments in local office...
should have seen the look on face when i pulled out a map of flood risks - severe -at a meeting of public... given 2-3 years ago flooding around the country, and asked how in hell it would ever get planning...
and ask the question, if it is so profitable, why are you not developing it yourselves...
public of course are muppets, and didn't want to let reality get in the way of their greed.
B
There a few of these around, some of which are scams and some are honest.
Those that are honest clearly state that you are buying agricultural land. Those that are not honest tend to suggest that there is a chance of development (which there may or not be).
The development of large green belt areas is a lengthy and difficult process, especially if all the plots are owned by different people.
The FSA also have a keen interest in this because of the scamsters, as the strategy normally contravenes the "collective investment" regulations.
Having said that, land is generally a good buy if you know what you are getting into and pay the right price.
Good luck
Those that are honest clearly state that you are buying agricultural land. Those that are not honest tend to suggest that there is a chance of development (which there may or not be).
The development of large green belt areas is a lengthy and difficult process, especially if all the plots are owned by different people.
The FSA also have a keen interest in this because of the scamsters, as the strategy normally contravenes the "collective investment" regulations.
Having said that, land is generally a good buy if you know what you are getting into and pay the right price.
Good luck
TDIPLC said:
There a few of these around, some of which are scams and some are honest.
Those that are honest clearly state that you are buying agricultural land. Those that are not honest tend to suggest that there is a chance of development (which there may or not be).
The development of large green belt areas is a lengthy and difficult process, especially if all the plots are owned by different people.
The FSA also have a keen interest in this because of the scamsters, as the strategy normally contravenes the "collective investment" regulations.
Having said that, land is generally a good buy if you know what you are getting into and pay the right price.
Good luck
Thanks mateThose that are honest clearly state that you are buying agricultural land. Those that are not honest tend to suggest that there is a chance of development (which there may or not be).
The development of large green belt areas is a lengthy and difficult process, especially if all the plots are owned by different people.
The FSA also have a keen interest in this because of the scamsters, as the strategy normally contravenes the "collective investment" regulations.
Having said that, land is generally a good buy if you know what you are getting into and pay the right price.
Good luck
The chief planners for bucks, herts, surrey and other counties havw already catagoricaly stated that people shouldn't buy "parcelled plots" of greenbelt land as there is next to no chance of it ever being granted planning permission, in the event of them granting planning permission on greenbelt land it would be handled exactly the same as in hte past with the CNT or english partnership or other government sponsored organisations handling the development, A friend of the family owned a massive farm of several hundred acres on the edge of the town, central government compulsary purchased it at agricultural rates and then handed it over to CNT/ENglishe partnerships who then came up with a grand scheme for shops, housing, industrial parks etc and got all the planning permission, they then sold all the planned plots onto big developers on tendered development contracts.
So even if they ever do give planning to build on greenbelt, as the head planners have already pointed out it is very unlikely to be handled in a way that sees plot owners getting market value for land with planning permission, since hte land will be bought in its current state - agricultural land at market rate of say 4000 quid an acre, which makes a average 3 bedroom house plot worth about 40 quid or something.
I have a friend who is a speculative land buyer, he tends to go round and find houses with big garden plots or lots of "developed" garden within the development boundaries, then puts the work in to get planning permission before selling it on to developers - thats how you make money from land - there is very little value in owning land itself, the value is in hte planning permission - argricultural land is not worth anywhere near what these scammers are selling it for and it is never likely to be. Don't waste your money.
remember, any scheme that involves you making a lot of money for doing little to know work is almost invariably a ruse to make the person who thought it up money at hte expense of others.
So even if they ever do give planning to build on greenbelt, as the head planners have already pointed out it is very unlikely to be handled in a way that sees plot owners getting market value for land with planning permission, since hte land will be bought in its current state - agricultural land at market rate of say 4000 quid an acre, which makes a average 3 bedroom house plot worth about 40 quid or something.
I have a friend who is a speculative land buyer, he tends to go round and find houses with big garden plots or lots of "developed" garden within the development boundaries, then puts the work in to get planning permission before selling it on to developers - thats how you make money from land - there is very little value in owning land itself, the value is in hte planning permission - argricultural land is not worth anywhere near what these scammers are selling it for and it is never likely to be. Don't waste your money.
remember, any scheme that involves you making a lot of money for doing little to know work is almost invariably a ruse to make the person who thought it up money at hte expense of others.
I don't think that I've come across greenfield land becoming suddely classed as brownfield land.
Surely it's either a brownfield site or it isn't.
There are areas of greenbelt in certain areas becoming developable but, as said by others, if it really is an attractive prospect then the developers would add it to their land banks.
Surely it's either a brownfield site or it isn't.
There are areas of greenbelt in certain areas becoming developable but, as said by others, if it really is an attractive prospect then the developers would add it to their land banks.
To find out if 'your' land has any potential I'd get down to your local library (the biggest one preferably) or local council and ask to see the UDP (Unitary development Plan). They might call it the 'Local PLan' if it's rural.
Anyway; each UDP comes with a set of large maps that has every piece of land in their remit on them along with a key to indicate what that particular area is zoned as; therefore green is for green belt, white is usually for developable land, blue is sometimes used for Employment zones, etc etc.
You can then simply find your land on this map and see what it is currently zoned as. If it is greenbelt how near is to a village/town/conurbation? If it's close check when the UDP was 'adopted' It'll give that on the front cover. You can guesstimate the next time you make representations to have that land re-zoned. It's always a long shot but at least you'll know where you stand.
Good luck.
PS. Don't go
ing near it unless, like Sam68, you work for a large firm with deep pockets that buys strategic land and is able to cover the finance costs of holding that land for 5+ years and pay for the representations, planning, consultants etc etc to get a particular piece of land re-zoned.
Anyway; each UDP comes with a set of large maps that has every piece of land in their remit on them along with a key to indicate what that particular area is zoned as; therefore green is for green belt, white is usually for developable land, blue is sometimes used for Employment zones, etc etc.
You can then simply find your land on this map and see what it is currently zoned as. If it is greenbelt how near is to a village/town/conurbation? If it's close check when the UDP was 'adopted' It'll give that on the front cover. You can guesstimate the next time you make representations to have that land re-zoned. It's always a long shot but at least you'll know where you stand.
Good luck.
PS. Don't go
ing near it unless, like Sam68, you work for a large firm with deep pockets that buys strategic land and is able to cover the finance costs of holding that land for 5+ years and pay for the representations, planning, consultants etc etc to get a particular piece of land re-zoned.It sounds a good deal. HOWEVER, all Local Authorities have a 10 year plan, which is ratified by the Secretary for the State for the Environment.
When Labour came to power 10 years ago (Prescott suggested that a million new homes would be built in the next "X" years).
When gorgeous Gordon inherited Tony's job, he said the same.
The issue you have, is most L.A.'s(see above) have already submitted their Local Plans and have had them adopted.
It sounds good on paper, but really it's a no win situation. Some Plc's spend a fortune on progressing "green field" opportunities through Public Consultations, it can take years. Any developers on here will know, there's no such thing as a guaranteed planning consent.
However, if you have a lot of money or decide to sit on the land for maybe 10/15 years (could be an awful lot more.) It maybe a worthwhile concept. But it needs to be on the edge of a village/town (generally) and there's no guarantee.
Hope that makes sense.
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