PH solicitors please advise me
Discussion
If a client agrees a particular commission payment, let's say £367,000 for arguments sake, and after the deal they are 'unresponsive' regarding payment (not answering phone calls, etc..), despite having signed a water tight contract, what is the most effective approach to extracting the monies? I spoke to one (American) colleague who made an interesting comment. He said "go after them for fraud on the basis that they requested you to carry out work but had no intention of paying you - thus defrauding you". I liked this approach because it comes close to involving the police as opposed to lawyers.
I suppose my question is this: At what point should police take over from lawyers in relation to a B2B dispute?
I suppose my question is this: At what point should police take over from lawyers in relation to a B2B dispute?
Without knowing more, and assuming that it is a business contract, it will, forever and a day, be a civil case.
Rather than ask your (American) friend, why don't you spend a small proportion of the amount outstanding (the, lets say, £367,000) on a person who's profession is such, to claim your due money.
Rather than ask your (American) friend, why don't you spend a small proportion of the amount outstanding (the, lets say, £367,000) on a person who's profession is such, to claim your due money.
gumshoe said:
Without knowing more, and assuming that it is a business contract, it will, forever and a day, be a civil case.
Rather than ask your (American) friend, why don't you spend a small proportion of the amount outstanding (the, lets say, £367,000) on a person who's profession is such, to claim your due money.
Needless to say I'm going through all the regular routes. My concern is that the chap will shove off to Grand Cayman (or some such) and will be hard to find. Also, I'm curious to know when the crossover occurs that a non-payment becomes a criminal offence. If I go to Marks & Spencer and I take a shirt valued at, say, £36.70 and don't pay for it the cops will be on me like a rash. Similarly, if someone has received services rendered but refuses to pay for them, having signed a contract, at what point does it become a criminal offence? Rather than ask your (American) friend, why don't you spend a small proportion of the amount outstanding (the, lets say, £367,000) on a person who's profession is such, to claim your due money.
Edited by srebbe64 on Thursday 20th December 10:17
Sounds like breach of contract which is, initially anyway, pursuable under civil rather than criminal law.
He hasb't actually "stolen" anything from you in pure monetary terms although, no doubt, your business has expemded time effort and money in fulfilling your side of the contract so there is definitely loss of money involved. Again, that would normally pursued through the civil courts.
He hasb't actually "stolen" anything from you in pure monetary terms although, no doubt, your business has expemded time effort and money in fulfilling your side of the contract so there is definitely loss of money involved. Again, that would normally pursued through the civil courts.
Steve,
Knowing the industry you are in, we always ensure that the client signs an undertaking and that our fees are paid from the funds the solicitor holds at Completion. We get this signed up front as part of our engagement terms and then nearer completion they sign another undertaking. This is then passed to the solicitor pre-completion and our fees are then settled as part of the overall transaction.
Nor sure if this will help in the future, don't know what you should do now other than sue.
Michael
Knowing the industry you are in, we always ensure that the client signs an undertaking and that our fees are paid from the funds the solicitor holds at Completion. We get this signed up front as part of our engagement terms and then nearer completion they sign another undertaking. This is then passed to the solicitor pre-completion and our fees are then settled as part of the overall transaction.
Nor sure if this will help in the future, don't know what you should do now other than sue.
Michael
wattsm666 said:
Steve,
Knowing the industry you are in, we always ensure that the client signs an undertaking and that our fees are paid from the funds the solicitor holds at Completion. We get this signed up front as part of our engagement terms and then nearer completion they sign another undertaking. This is then passed to the solicitor pre-completion and our fees are then settled as part of the overall transaction.
Nor sure if this will help in the future, don't know what you should do now other than sue.
Michael
Yes, the client was legally contracted to have the monies paid to us on the distribution from the lawyers. Clearly he (at the 11th hour) instructed his lawyer not to distribute the monies. The chap is in breach of our contract on several fronts; 1) not paying us; 2) not getting us paid on the dispersements; 3) not being transparent with us; The thing which ticks me off is during the negotiations he went to great lengths to talk about his "integrity" and that the new owner should show him the appropriate respect because of this. It now seems he's acting with zero integrity. I've no doubt we'll get the money, it's just irritating to have to fight for it.Knowing the industry you are in, we always ensure that the client signs an undertaking and that our fees are paid from the funds the solicitor holds at Completion. We get this signed up front as part of our engagement terms and then nearer completion they sign another undertaking. This is then passed to the solicitor pre-completion and our fees are then settled as part of the overall transaction.
Nor sure if this will help in the future, don't know what you should do now other than sue.
Michael
srebbe64 said:
The thing which ticks me off is during the negotiations he went to great lengths to talk about his "integrity" and that the new owner should show him the appropriate respect because of this.
As my old Dad used to say when people tell you how honest they are make sure you count your fingers after you shake hands.srebbe64 said:
wattsm666 said:
If the lawyer had an undertaking, they are normally irrevocable and surely the lawyer is in some kind of bother as well then. Certainly the Law Society would be interested if he has breached the undertaking.
Hmm, interesting!You do need to take some advice, I can't remember if you said it's an individual or a company - I'd probably look at issuing a statutory demand to focus their attention on the matter at hand!
In my experience as 10 years as a commercial litigation lawyer, trying to get the Police involved in anything that smacks of being a civil dispute is an exercise in futility. They're just not interested unless you can serve it up and present them with an open-and-shut criminal case on a plate. Which I'm afraid you don't get anywhere near being able to do (at least on the face of it) in this case.
If he's an individual, a statutory demand as a pre-cursor to bankruptcy proceedings may focus his mind on the situation....
The same could hold true if it's a company you're dealing with (albeit substitute winding up for bankruptcy) but whether it's worth doing depends of course on whether it has any assets in the jurisdiction.
If he's an individual, a statutory demand as a pre-cursor to bankruptcy proceedings may focus his mind on the situation....
The same could hold true if it's a company you're dealing with (albeit substitute winding up for bankruptcy) but whether it's worth doing depends of course on whether it has any assets in the jurisdiction.
Edited by Lurking Lawyer on Thursday 20th December 16:13
It's an individual we're dealing with not a company. He's now responded and said he'd like to meet in order to "discuss our invoice". He also said he has no complaints and is delighted with the deal. Weird. I suspect he's smarting at the VAT element which he can't claim back. I'll find out in a couple of weeks. I'm determined not to cave in to any degree because it's a precedent I don't wish to set.
Personally, I can't see a fraud action working, you would effectively have to prove a deception. In any case, as others have said this case would be viewed as civil (I'm not a solicitor but have prosecuted many people). The Fraud Act 2006 attempts to clarify the position on fraud (as opposed to action previously taken under the various Theft Acts and the like).
He may or may not know that fraud action is unlikely, that may prove useful to you. I would meet him and see what he says. I assume he is looking to reduce his costs...
He may or may not know that fraud action is unlikely, that may prove useful to you. I would meet him and see what he says. I assume he is looking to reduce his costs...
petclub said:
Personally, I can't see a fraud action working, you would effectively have to prove a deception. In any case, as others have said this case would be viewed as civil (I'm not a solicitor but have prosecuted many people). The Fraud Act 2006 attempts to clarify the position on fraud (as opposed to action previously taken under the various Theft Acts and the like).
He may or may not know that fraud action is unlikely, that may prove useful to you. I would meet him and see what he says. I assume he is looking to reduce his costs...
Agreed.He may or may not know that fraud action is unlikely, that may prove useful to you. I would meet him and see what he says. I assume he is looking to reduce his costs...
Especially if 'in hindsight' the amount is seen as a lot of money.
This practice is of course very sneaky to put it mildly as the intention is to put the often smaller company in financial dire straights or at least hint at the possibility they wont be paid at all in order to influence renegotiating a lower fee.
With a bit of luck they are just trying it on, and with a firm reconfirmation of what was agreed and a hint of the Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act, the instant statutory compensation amount and interest gaining daily this is a warning of how the situation could turn to the worst for them...
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