Massive fraud at French Bank
Massive fraud at French Bank
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Discussion

jamesuk28

Original Poster:

2,176 posts

283 months

Thursday 24th January 2008
quotequote all
just hearing of a massive £3.6 billion fraud at French bank Societe Generale. Looks like one of their futures traders. Makes the Nick Leeson thing look like he stole the petty cash!!

ukvoyager.info

2,782 posts

252 months

Thursday 24th January 2008
quotequote all
http://news.google.co.uk/news?q=fraud+at+French+ba...redfacefficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&hl=en&sa=X&oi=news_result&resnum=1&ct=title


eek

JPJ001

20 posts

226 months

Thursday 24th January 2008
quotequote all
A single trader responsible for 'vanilla futures hedging', must have been some chunky positions!

Vesuvius 996

35,829 posts

301 months

Thursday 24th January 2008
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It's a woman.

yikes

SOme sweaty compliance folks at SocGen this morning.....



NewNameNeeded

2,560 posts

255 months

Thursday 24th January 2008
quotequote all
and originally from back office, and so knew procedures for entering the trade and keeping it hidden.

Never wise to employ a trader who knows anything about mid or back office, or indeed computers.

Horse_Apple

3,795 posts

272 months

Thursday 24th January 2008
quotequote all
The heading should really be:

SocGen sack bint for being way smarter than whole of back office, front office and compliance.

Of course, it is possible that with SocGen's slumping value over the last 6 months that other people knew about this and it was an internally structured bet with pre arranged exit strategy.wink Only way of ever knowing would be to follow her when she goes on holiday to the Caymen and peep over her shoulder when she's at a cash machine.

Obviously, it is far more probable that everyone around her was ruthlessly incompetant.


Vesuvius 996

35,829 posts

301 months

Thursday 24th January 2008
quotequote all
Mate just called me from SocGen. chaos there, apparently!

Horse_Apple

3,795 posts

272 months

Thursday 24th January 2008
quotequote all
Vesuvius 996 said:
Mate just called me from SocGen. chaos there, apparently!
Normal day then biggrin

ATG

23,828 posts

302 months

Thursday 24th January 2008
quotequote all
Must say I felt my eyebrows rising slightly when I heard SocGen squealing "Fraud!" very quickly and trying to pin all the blame on one "rogue trader".

Frankly the claim that having taken a huge vanilla exposure to equities, he then hid them, according to the chief exec of the bank, "using extremely sophisticated and varied techniques" is risible. If all you need to do to defraud SocGen is have a fair idea how their middle office works, then SocGen's controls are hopelessly inadequate and the people responsible for their crapness should be taken out and shot ... probably starting with the Chief Exec who seems so quick to try and make excuses. FFS, the bank ought to be full of people who know how the middle office works; that shouldn't be sufficient for them to hide transactions and risk.

jamesuk28

Original Poster:

2,176 posts

283 months

Thursday 24th January 2008
quotequote all
Indeed, I thought lessons would have been learnt after barings. How can "1 person" rack up a loss like that at not be spotted much much earlier. No doubt the French national bank will bail them out, this is France after all.

traxx

3,143 posts

252 months

Thursday 24th January 2008
quotequote all
ATG said:
Must say I felt my eyebrows rising slightly when I heard SocGen squealing "Fraud!" very quickly and trying to pin all the blame on one "rogue trader".

Frankly the claim that having taken a huge vanilla exposure to equities, he then hid them, according to the chief exec of the bank, "using extremely sophisticated and varied techniques" is risible. If all you need to do to defraud SocGen is have a fair idea how their middle office works, then SocGen's controls are hopelessly inadequate and the people responsible for their crapness should be taken out and shot ... probably starting with the Chief Exec who seems so quick to try and make excuses. FFS, the bank ought to be full of people who know how the middle office works; that shouldn't be sufficient for them to hide transactions and risk.
Whole story doesn't make any sense,

Think about it if they were long index futures and got out first think monday morning - what could they have lost?

Lets say 10% at most, so that means they were €50bn long nominal

Just think of the size of both the initial and daily variation margin - does the bank regularly make billion euro payments without understanding why?



BTW if the major sell off on Monday morning was as a result of SocGen trying to get out of its position then I think the problems for the bank have only just started
Imagine if the FED start thinking that it was SocGen that forced their hand on interest rates

Horse_Apple

3,795 posts

272 months

Thursday 24th January 2008
quotequote all
ATG said:
Must say I felt my eyebrows rising slightly when I heard SocGen squealing "Fraud!" very quickly and trying to pin all the blame on one "rogue trader".

Frankly the claim that having taken a huge vanilla exposure to equities, he then hid them, according to the chief exec of the bank, "using extremely sophisticated and varied techniques" is risible. If all you need to do to defraud SocGen is have a fair idea how their middle office works, then SocGen's controls are hopelessly inadequate and the people responsible for their crapness should be taken out and shot ... probably starting with the Chief Exec who seems so quick to try and make excuses. FFS, the bank ought to be full of people who know how the middle office works; that shouldn't be sufficient for them to hide transactions and risk.
Hold on!!! She's a woman, and they are French? Maybe she has fantastic knockers and kept getting them out everytime Risk came to talk to her?

Vesuvius 996

35,829 posts

301 months

Thursday 24th January 2008
quotequote all
Horse_Apple said:
ATG said:
Must say I felt my eyebrows rising slightly when I heard SocGen squealing "Fraud!" very quickly and trying to pin all the blame on one "rogue trader".

Frankly the claim that having taken a huge vanilla exposure to equities, he then hid them, according to the chief exec of the bank, "using extremely sophisticated and varied techniques" is risible. If all you need to do to defraud SocGen is have a fair idea how their middle office works, then SocGen's controls are hopelessly inadequate and the people responsible for their crapness should be taken out and shot ... probably starting with the Chief Exec who seems so quick to try and make excuses. FFS, the bank ought to be full of people who know how the middle office works; that shouldn't be sufficient for them to hide transactions and risk.
Hold on!!! She's a woman, and they are French? Maybe she has fantastic knockers and kept getting them out everytime Risk came to talk to her?
And then eventually she got caught when the auditor was bent.

hehe

jamesuk28

Original Poster:

2,176 posts

283 months

Thursday 24th January 2008
quotequote all
Horse_Apple said:
ATG said:
Must say I felt my eyebrows rising slightly when I heard SocGen squealing "Fraud!" very quickly and trying to pin all the blame on one "rogue trader".

Frankly the claim that having taken a huge vanilla exposure to equities, he then hid them, according to the chief exec of the bank, "using extremely sophisticated and varied techniques" is risible. If all you need to do to defraud SocGen is have a fair idea how their middle office works, then SocGen's controls are hopelessly inadequate and the people responsible for their crapness should be taken out and shot ... probably starting with the Chief Exec who seems so quick to try and make excuses. FFS, the bank ought to be full of people who know how the middle office works; that shouldn't be sufficient for them to hide transactions and risk.
Hold on!!! She's a woman, and they are French? Maybe she has fantastic knockers and kept getting them out everytime Risk came to talk to her?
rofl


ATG

23,828 posts

302 months

Thursday 24th January 2008
quotequote all
This is an important point. Are we sure she's a bird? Every news report I've heard has referred to a bloke.

Horse_Apple

3,795 posts

272 months

Thursday 24th January 2008
quotequote all
ATG said:
This is an important point. Are we sure she's a bird? Every news report I've heard has referred to a bloke.
It can be very difficult to tell with some Europeans. biggrin

ATG

23,828 posts

302 months

Thursday 24th January 2008
quotequote all
Horse_Apple said:
ATG said:
This is an important point. Are we sure she's a bird? Every news report I've heard has referred to a bloke.
It can be very difficult to tell with some Europeans. biggrin
Given I work very closely with a French institution right now, I don't think it would be politic to comment ... but many years ago I used to work for Credit Lyonnais, so I do know exactly what you mean.

NewNameNeeded

2,560 posts

255 months

Friday 25th January 2008
quotequote all
http://www.risk.co.uk/public/showPage.html?page=685494 
brilliant. SocGen voted Equity Derivatives house of the year.

Vesuvius 996

35,829 posts

301 months

Friday 25th January 2008
quotequote all
NewNameNeeded said:
http://www.risk.co.uk/public/showPage.html?page=685494 
brilliant. SocGen voted Equity Derivatives house of the year.
hehe

"With one of the largest exotics books on the Street, one would imagine that Société Générale Corporate and Investment Banking (SG CIB) would be licking its wounds and coping with hundreds of millions of euros in losses. There was some impact, but the losses have been relatively minor and entirely manageable, says Christophe Mianne, SG CIB's head of market activities, covering equity, derivatives, fixed income, currency and commodities in Paris."

3doorPete

9,991 posts

264 months

Friday 25th January 2008
quotequote all
The truth about the French trader....

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/french...