HMRC & Penalty Notices!
Discussion
HMRC keep sending us penalty notices through for "failure to complete a company tax return", yet the returns have all been completed and filed. Think we've had about 5 through now...
I've had through the "I acknowledge receipt of the company tax return" notices from HMRC a couple of weeks ago, yet today arrives in the post another £100 penalty for failing to file the return for the same period that they already have acknowledged they have received.
Are they really this bad? My accountants stumped as they were all filed ages ago and are appealing against the ones already received, but it's getting stupid now.
Of course they all arrive on a saturday when you can't do anything about them until the monday!
I've had through the "I acknowledge receipt of the company tax return" notices from HMRC a couple of weeks ago, yet today arrives in the post another £100 penalty for failing to file the return for the same period that they already have acknowledged they have received.
Are they really this bad? My accountants stumped as they were all filed ages ago and are appealing against the ones already received, but it's getting stupid now.
Of course they all arrive on a saturday when you can't do anything about them until the monday!
Edited by BaconBonce on Saturday 8th March 19:54
Eric Mc said:
Are the Corporation Tax references numbers quoted on the penalty notices correct?
Hi Eric,They are the same on each notice and the acknowledgement forms they sent through to me apart from having an A on the acknowledgement and P on the penalty notices (letter I assume are just relating to the type of notice).
The accounting period's are the same for each.
Is there anything I should be checking - not very good with this stuff hence most of the details are with the accountants currently.
good one isnt-it.
You will proably get fined for not paying them, they will then cancell it at £0 but as you will still have to pay the interest on the fine that was not actually due because you paid it late even though none of it was due. I kid you not this has happend to me.
Ah if we had paid you, you would have refunded back the fine and the interest to me? Yes HMCR, so if the orignal fine its not due then I dont owe you anything and you wont have to pay me back any interest on the money I did not actually need to pay you? No HMCR - you still owe us the interst as you should have paid the fine. We would then have refunded it back to you.
But none of it was due??
great. muppets. Work for work sake.
You will proably get fined for not paying them, they will then cancell it at £0 but as you will still have to pay the interest on the fine that was not actually due because you paid it late even though none of it was due. I kid you not this has happend to me.
Ah if we had paid you, you would have refunded back the fine and the interest to me? Yes HMCR, so if the orignal fine its not due then I dont owe you anything and you wont have to pay me back any interest on the money I did not actually need to pay you? No HMCR - you still owe us the interst as you should have paid the fine. We would then have refunded it back to you.
But none of it was due??
great. muppets. Work for work sake.
BaconBonce said:
Eric Mc said:
Are the Corporation Tax references numbers quoted on the penalty notices correct?
Hi Eric,They are the same on each notice and the acknowledgement forms they sent through to me apart from having an A on the acknowledgement and P on the penalty notices (letter I assume are just relating to the type of notice).
The accounting period's are the same for each.
Is there anything I should be checking - not very good with this stuff hence most of the details are with the accountants currently.
Accounting Period : Sep 2005 to Aug 2006
Return due date : Dec 2006 (don't know if that's accurate or not)
Actual date returned : September 2007
So although you have sent a return for the accounting period, you still have to pay fines for the months you were late sending the forms back.
Thanks for the replys - I'm going to thrash it out with the accountants tomorrow. They assure me they are all done and correct and shouldn't be due any fines.
However, I'm not that impressed with them at the moment and wonder if they are actually filing the returns and fobbing me off.
However, I'm not that impressed with them at the moment and wonder if they are actually filing the returns and fobbing me off.
Have you spoken directly to the Revenue?
You could try and find out the dates THEY are claiming the forms and accounts were submitted.
It would also be worthwhile asking your accountants for propf that they did inded submit all the paperwork before the statutory filing date - especially if you are suspicious that they may not be telling you the full story.
You could try and find out the dates THEY are claiming the forms and accounts were submitted.
It would also be worthwhile asking your accountants for propf that they did inded submit all the paperwork before the statutory filing date - especially if you are suspicious that they may not be telling you the full story.
Eric Mc said:
Have you spoken directly to the Revenue?
You could try and find out the dates THEY are claiming the forms and accounts were submitted.
It would also be worthwhile asking your accountants for propf that they did inded submit all the paperwork before the statutory filing date - especially if you are suspicious that they may not be telling you the full story.
I haven't yet, but I can see that conversation happening tomorrow - something to look forward to! You could try and find out the dates THEY are claiming the forms and accounts were submitted.
It would also be worthwhile asking your accountants for propf that they did inded submit all the paperwork before the statutory filing date - especially if you are suspicious that they may not be telling you the full story.
I know the accounts were submitted in time and the accountant is saying that the tax returns were filed at the same time, but as you say, think I need to ask them for some proof.
The notices that I receive never have any interest on them either - just the £100 penalty of which the due payment date is 30 days later.
Interest is charged on late Corporation Tax payments.
The £100 Late Filing penalty is charged if the actual Corporation Tax Return Form (the CT600) is filed late.
The payment of the Corporation Tax and the filing of the form have different deadline dates -
the tax payment date is 9 months after the end of the relevant accounting period of the company (i.e 9 months after the end of its financial year)
the form filing date is 12 months after the end of the accounting year end date.
Was this the first set of accounts and first tax return for the company?
If so, did the accounts cover a trading period longer than 12 months?
The £100 Late Filing penalty is charged if the actual Corporation Tax Return Form (the CT600) is filed late.
The payment of the Corporation Tax and the filing of the form have different deadline dates -
the tax payment date is 9 months after the end of the relevant accounting period of the company (i.e 9 months after the end of its financial year)
the form filing date is 12 months after the end of the accounting year end date.
Was this the first set of accounts and first tax return for the company?
If so, did the accounts cover a trading period longer than 12 months?
Eric Mc said:
Was this the first set of accounts and first tax return for the company?
If so, did the accounts cover a trading period longer than 12 months?
Hi Eric,If so, did the accounts cover a trading period longer than 12 months?
Yes, it was the first set of accounts/return and I believe they did cover a trading period longer than 12 months - 13 months if I remember correctly, but can't confirm this until the morning.
Edited by BaconBonce on Sunday 9th March 11:16
That sounds like where the rouble might lie. If that first period exceeded 12 momths in length, then two sets of tax computations needed to ne prepared and two Corporation tax returns needed to be completed.
The 1st tax return would cover the period from the date of commencement of trade to the 1st anniversary of that date i.e. the exact first 365 days of trading.
The 2nd tax return would cover from the next day to the actual financial period end date.
For future tax returns, the Corporation Tax period would be the normal 12 month year end accounting period and only one return would be needed.
Check the dates quoted on your penalty notices and see if they refer to an odd looking beginning and end date.
The 1st tax return would cover the period from the date of commencement of trade to the 1st anniversary of that date i.e. the exact first 365 days of trading.
The 2nd tax return would cover from the next day to the actual financial period end date.
For future tax returns, the Corporation Tax period would be the normal 12 month year end accounting period and only one return would be needed.
Check the dates quoted on your penalty notices and see if they refer to an odd looking beginning and end date.
Eric Mc said:
That sounds like where the rouble might lie. If that first period exceeded 12 momths in length, then two sets of tax computations needed to ne prepared and two Corporation tax returns needed to be completed.
The 1st tax return would cover the period from the date of commencement of trade to the 1st anniversary of that date i.e. the exact first 365 days of trading.
The 2nd tax return would cover from the next day to the actual financial period end date.
For future tax returns, the Corporation Tax period would be the normal 12 month year end accounting period and only one return would be needed.
Check the dates quoted on your penalty notices and see if they refer to an odd looking beginning and end date.
Hi Eric,The 1st tax return would cover the period from the date of commencement of trade to the 1st anniversary of that date i.e. the exact first 365 days of trading.
The 2nd tax return would cover from the next day to the actual financial period end date.
For future tax returns, the Corporation Tax period would be the normal 12 month year end accounting period and only one return would be needed.
Check the dates quoted on your penalty notices and see if they refer to an odd looking beginning and end date.
Just checked the dates and these are the 2 accounting periods:
- 6 October 2005 to 5 October 2006
- 6 October 2006 to 31 October 2006
The last penalty notice came through yesterday again relating to the 6 October 2006 - 31 October 2006.
Does that make it any clearer?
Greatly appreciate your time on this.
Edited by BaconBonce on Sunday 9th March 11:59
Yes, it seems that perhaps your accountant might have filed the the second return after the 31 October 2007 deadline date - or maybe might not have filed the second required return at all!!!
I'm out for the rest of the day so won't be able to reply to nay posts until much later this evening.
Best of luck in sorting this out.
I'm out for the rest of the day so won't be able to reply to nay posts until much later this evening.
Best of luck in sorting this out.
If an accountant files the returns online on behalf of a client, what kind of receipts would they normally receive? Confirmation email, paper acknowledgement etc.
Just trying to arm myself with as much information as possible when I ask for proof tomorrow that they did actually file the returns in time.
Just trying to arm myself with as much information as possible when I ask for proof tomorrow that they did actually file the returns in time.
Edited by BaconBonce on Sunday 9th March 16:17
Eric Mc said:
The Revenue issues a document called an "Acknowledgement of Receipt of a Corporation Tax Return".
I've received those for both accounting periods, but only came through a couple of weeks ago - yet the penalty notices are still coming through. Acknowledgement of company tax return for period 6 October 2006 - 31 October 2006 issued on 13th Feb 2008
Penalty notice of failure to deliver a return by the required date for period 6 Oct 2006 - 31 Oct 2006 issued on 28th Feb 2008
Edited by BaconBonce on Sunday 9th March 22:56
Quick update on this. After speaking to the Revenue, it appears that both periods have been filed late - the date they have as being filed is the 12th Feb and there are £200 in fines due.
Accountant is not taking my calls or replying to emails so I'll be knocking on their door later.
Absolutely typical that I choose an accountant who actually costs me money.
HMRC were a right bunch of miserable g*ts as well.
What ever happened to customer service?
Accountant is not taking my calls or replying to emails so I'll be knocking on their door later.
Absolutely typical that I choose an accountant who actually costs me money.
HMRC were a right bunch of miserable g*ts as well.
What ever happened to customer service?
Edited by BaconBonce on Monday 10th March 11:35
Obviously, if he received the records for the preparation of the accounts close to the filing dates he might have valid reasons as to why they couldn't be submitted in time.
However, if he really is at fault, get the accountant to pay the fines for you or pay the fines yourself but ask him to reduce his fees next year by the penalty amounts you had to pay.
However, if he really is at fault, get the accountant to pay the fines for you or pay the fines yourself but ask him to reduce his fees next year by the penalty amounts you had to pay.
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