I P Theft Advice maybe?
Discussion
ill try and condense this as much as possible , Mr a makes a unique product, does a pretty unique job and looks totally unique, he finds a distributor who is happy to take on and sell his product and orders/pays for 3 units as trials(theese were ordered from Mr a and paid for, no limited company was owned by mr a at the time of the first sale or invention of the device), the distributor passes theese around his minions to sell on at retail,mr a starts a limited company and continues trading with his only customer over the next 9 months through his new ltd. co,. during theese 9 months mr a invoices his distributor For a large vat invoice, the distributor ignores the vat invoice and doesnt pay after repeated requests and knowing that the Mr a's ltd company will be forced into closure , Mr a's limited company is forced to close, now during the last year his distributor has been passing theese on to a company that is based on, nurtured and helped to grow by and partly OWNED by a well known and prestigious educational facility.
around the time mr a's company is forced to close(within a few days) public advertising appears from the afformentioned and jointly owned company advertising what appears to be exactly the same product(it is very unique), claiming they have been testing it for 9 months and are now selling it to the public, stating that it was developed over the last year by the prestigious educational facility and the company they now own shares in!!, they have been extremely carefull not to put any pictures of the object out anywhere but is is obviously endorsed by the educational facility and the wording and info on the website has been blatently plagerised?.
Im an engineer and not a businessman so i phone said educational facility with my concerns explaining my situation in full, i pointed them to a website with a picture of my product on and asked po;litely if they would check it out and call me back just to put my mind at rest, the girl on the phone was a pa and couldnt have been more polite and helpfull, promising to call me back the next day when the director was free from meetings, i made no accusations or threats, did not mention lawyers, next day goes by and no phone call so i called the pa again for an update, i was passed directly onto a manager who could only say--"im not allowed to comment on that situation, neither is anyone else and it has been passed into the hands of our legal team", the tone in there voice changed when i said my name to that of fear, they were very uncomfortable talking to me on the phone and wouldnt say a thing, surely they would have said "sorry sir, your confused" if they had nothing to hide?, it sounds like my idea has been ripped off completely, so it seems like i need legal advice now, i have a huge papertrail and digital/hard copies of all the articles/websites involved, i was told that as we can prove sales of the device before the ltd company was formed that the IP still belongs with us the inventors and was not owned by the Ltd co before its closure, we have no difficulty in proving that the unit was designed/made by mr a and it is very unique, it seems like i need a solicitor to even find out whats going on, i cant see any grey areas either-it appears to be a blatent rip off endorsed by a big edu facility, the question is do ip lawyers work on a no win-no fee basis anywhere? it is a big case against a very well known educational facility which should attract media attention and is backed by a nice neat organised papertrail/timeline? with much kudos for the victor
what should i do next?
i realise these cases can get expensive and the opposition will have a top team of ip people/legal advisors at there disposal(the director i needed to speak to was in an all day meeting with there IP people on the day i made the initial enquiry, maybe they were discussing how they could protect my project?), but they are also pooping themselves so much they wouldnt even talk to me on the phone, im also disabled and have put the last 3 years and all my savings into this project, so im a bit unhappy if you get my drift
thanks for staying awake through this long and boring post
around the time mr a's company is forced to close(within a few days) public advertising appears from the afformentioned and jointly owned company advertising what appears to be exactly the same product(it is very unique), claiming they have been testing it for 9 months and are now selling it to the public, stating that it was developed over the last year by the prestigious educational facility and the company they now own shares in!!, they have been extremely carefull not to put any pictures of the object out anywhere but is is obviously endorsed by the educational facility and the wording and info on the website has been blatently plagerised?.
Im an engineer and not a businessman so i phone said educational facility with my concerns explaining my situation in full, i pointed them to a website with a picture of my product on and asked po;litely if they would check it out and call me back just to put my mind at rest, the girl on the phone was a pa and couldnt have been more polite and helpfull, promising to call me back the next day when the director was free from meetings, i made no accusations or threats, did not mention lawyers, next day goes by and no phone call so i called the pa again for an update, i was passed directly onto a manager who could only say--"im not allowed to comment on that situation, neither is anyone else and it has been passed into the hands of our legal team", the tone in there voice changed when i said my name to that of fear, they were very uncomfortable talking to me on the phone and wouldnt say a thing, surely they would have said "sorry sir, your confused" if they had nothing to hide?, it sounds like my idea has been ripped off completely, so it seems like i need legal advice now, i have a huge papertrail and digital/hard copies of all the articles/websites involved, i was told that as we can prove sales of the device before the ltd company was formed that the IP still belongs with us the inventors and was not owned by the Ltd co before its closure, we have no difficulty in proving that the unit was designed/made by mr a and it is very unique, it seems like i need a solicitor to even find out whats going on, i cant see any grey areas either-it appears to be a blatent rip off endorsed by a big edu facility, the question is do ip lawyers work on a no win-no fee basis anywhere? it is a big case against a very well known educational facility which should attract media attention and is backed by a nice neat organised papertrail/timeline? with much kudos for the victor
what should i do next?
i realise these cases can get expensive and the opposition will have a top team of ip people/legal advisors at there disposal(the director i needed to speak to was in an all day meeting with there IP people on the day i made the initial enquiry, maybe they were discussing how they could protect my project?), but they are also pooping themselves so much they wouldnt even talk to me on the phone, im also disabled and have put the last 3 years and all my savings into this project, so im a bit unhappy if you get my drift
thanks for staying awake through this long and boring post
Although this is from the benefit of hindsight, a better time to solve this situation would have been when they had the debt outstanding, so that your company could continue and they wouldnt have thought they could screw you over.
The problem is that as you have said these IP cases are expensive to fight. They are also not always clear cut. For example, they could have developed something which although may do the same job is significantly different. That would be tens of thousands of pounds down the line with you getting zero back should they did their heels in and just through more and more money behind the legal wheels.
What I would say though, thinking 'out of the box' a cheaper way forward would be to find an alternative partner to distribute your product. If you have the trail that the product is yours then there should be no problem in doing this. I run a smallish company who sells to the educational sector and I know for a fact that the fact you are a small company does not act against you if you can market something well and offer excellent service.
If you can give me an idea what type of thing the product does and an idea of the costs and margins involved either on the thread or by personal message I will let you know if it is one of the type of products/services we offer, and see if there could be a possibility for going forward.
The problem is that as you have said these IP cases are expensive to fight. They are also not always clear cut. For example, they could have developed something which although may do the same job is significantly different. That would be tens of thousands of pounds down the line with you getting zero back should they did their heels in and just through more and more money behind the legal wheels.
What I would say though, thinking 'out of the box' a cheaper way forward would be to find an alternative partner to distribute your product. If you have the trail that the product is yours then there should be no problem in doing this. I run a smallish company who sells to the educational sector and I know for a fact that the fact you are a small company does not act against you if you can market something well and offer excellent service.
If you can give me an idea what type of thing the product does and an idea of the costs and margins involved either on the thread or by personal message I will let you know if it is one of the type of products/services we offer, and see if there could be a possibility for going forward.
It's my understanding that a patent is useless if you can provide proof of concept which predates their patent application.. which shouldn't be an issue here.
Just go speak to a solicitor.. you get 30 mins free with most of them these days.. use it.. see a few if needed and let them advise..
This sounds like too much money to rely on the well meaning advise from those on an Internet Forum (myself included!)
J
Just go speak to a solicitor.. you get 30 mins free with most of them these days.. use it.. see a few if needed and let them advise..
This sounds like too much money to rely on the well meaning advise from those on an Internet Forum (myself included!)
J
Don't worry about the lack of Patient, you have a much larger problem. IP is only worth what you are prepared to spend defending it.
If Mr A's business has closed, one assumes he has no money. That kind of sets the bar pretty low.
Mr A needs a big and threatening IP layer to write some snotty letters. Hopefully the alleged thieves will back down and the problem will do away. Failing that Mr A will need to grow some trees, make some paper and start printing money.
If Mr A's business has closed, one assumes he has no money. That kind of sets the bar pretty low.
Mr A needs a big and threatening IP layer to write some snotty letters. Hopefully the alleged thieves will back down and the problem will do away. Failing that Mr A will need to grow some trees, make some paper and start printing money.
JamieBeeston said:
It's my understanding that a patent is useless if you can provide proof of concept which predates their patent application.. which shouldn't be an issue here.
Just go speak to a solicitor.. you get 30 mins free with most of them these days.. use it.. see a few if needed and let them advise..
This sounds like too much money to rely on the well meaning advise from those on an Internet Forum (myself included!)
J
echo this advice completely....patenes are massively misunderstood and over-valued. and sorting this out wont necessarily end up being as massively tricky as you might think. The education establishment mentioned may be entirely unaware of the previous issue, and only finding out now.....(ie, they acted in good faith when approached by the distributor who was actually the one doing the F'ing in the A to Mr A as it were....)Just go speak to a solicitor.. you get 30 mins free with most of them these days.. use it.. see a few if needed and let them advise..
This sounds like too much money to rely on the well meaning advise from those on an Internet Forum (myself included!)
J
get the free 30 mins and take it from there....
Mr A should be talking to a proper Solicitor who specialises in Intellectual Property and not asking a bunch of well meaning but ultimately powerless people on an internet forum.
Assuming the product has significant value in terms of sales revinue and profit the legal fee would be money well spent provided you can actually prove it was yours to begin with.
One assumes that you have copies of your agreement with the distributor and that there is a clause which forbids them to copy, source else where etc.
Assuming the product has significant value in terms of sales revinue and profit the legal fee would be money well spent provided you can actually prove it was yours to begin with.
One assumes that you have copies of your agreement with the distributor and that there is a clause which forbids them to copy, source else where etc.
Thanks for all of the replys
Not sure if i need to be to concerned about the grammer and punctuation, im constantly fed prescriptions for heavy duty painkillers due to an injury i have, i know that the organisation concerned has a heavy legal team and its the fact that they have closed ranks so quickly that makes me wonder whats going on, the facility can not bee seen to be acting improperly in any way at all, they are connected to government and local business sponsors. If there is no issue with the product a simple "no sir, this is something completely different we have been working on over a year now" , im happy to explain more but need to be carefull at present as i haven't seen a solicitor yet(ill be going early tuesday), i have no doubt that somebody concerned will be a P.H. reader, to me it seems like a pretty clear cut case- i would pm you rippedoff but im a tad worried about replying to anything other than a solicitors e-mail address with any further explicit details at the moment, it has all the makings of a good newspaper story , i didnt think about seeing if they have made a patent application for the product, that would make there life so much more difficult if they have and mine much easier!, im off to find the patent office website!!
Not sure if i need to be to concerned about the grammer and punctuation, im constantly fed prescriptions for heavy duty painkillers due to an injury i have, i know that the organisation concerned has a heavy legal team and its the fact that they have closed ranks so quickly that makes me wonder whats going on, the facility can not bee seen to be acting improperly in any way at all, they are connected to government and local business sponsors. If there is no issue with the product a simple "no sir, this is something completely different we have been working on over a year now" , im happy to explain more but need to be carefull at present as i haven't seen a solicitor yet(ill be going early tuesday), i have no doubt that somebody concerned will be a P.H. reader, to me it seems like a pretty clear cut case- i would pm you rippedoff but im a tad worried about replying to anything other than a solicitors e-mail address with any further explicit details at the moment, it has all the makings of a good newspaper story , i didnt think about seeing if they have made a patent application for the product, that would make there life so much more difficult if they have and mine much easier!, im off to find the patent office website!!
From my experiance Twisted, courts tend to err on the side of the little man and do not like to see the big bullies giving you a kicking.
I would be interested in knowing which solicitor Ripped off used but I agree you need to be careful about who you tell what at this stage.
I am a bit suspicious that Rippedoff just happened to appear and make one post regarding your issue.
Seems a bit too well timed IMHO.
Make sure you get a proper legal company that specialises in IP!
take no prisoners!!
I would be interested in knowing which solicitor Ripped off used but I agree you need to be careful about who you tell what at this stage.
I am a bit suspicious that Rippedoff just happened to appear and make one post regarding your issue.
Seems a bit too well timed IMHO.
Make sure you get a proper legal company that specialises in IP!
take no prisoners!!
Thanks rippedoff.
Sorry to seem so negetive but you can understand my caution.
I sincerely hope that everything goes well for you and twised.
I have had a small experiance of taking on the bigger boys and all the s
te they can put you through to intimidate, threaten and just demoralise you.I took a previous employer to Tribunal for unfair selection for redundancy and did very well out of it.
You really do have to be bloody minded and determined to see it through to the end.
I for one am glad I did.
All the best!!
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