Debt collector taking the pi*s

[jamesuk28]

Ironic I know. Anyway I have a friend (we will call him John) who owes a bank £10k, this was passed onto one of the big national collectors.

An installment plan was agreed where by John would pay a first payment of £1k plus monthly payments of £300.

John rang the debt company on Monday to pay the first £1k, despite numerous attempts to speak to someone (he has phone proof as its a 0870 number) he was constanly put on hold or voicemail, he did leave a message that he had called to pay.

Anyway on Tuesday he rang the collector back to pay the £1k and got through. They informed him that as he had failed to pay on time they will cahrge him a £100 fine. He really cannot afford to pay this.

I advised him to contact the OFT (who were as useless as ever) and contact the debt company to say:

1. He had made every reasonable attempt to pay on time, the debt company failed to man their phones in a proper fashion hence he could not get through.

2. The charge is Disproportionate

3. He has no signed agreement with the debt company (the £100 will go straight in their pockets.

He did manage to speak to a manager who hurled abuse down the phone at him, and said that he would instruct a solictor to issue a stat demand with a view to issuing bankruptcy petition. This is not a course of action he wants to risk due to increased costs.

He is also a director of a ltd company so bankruptcy is not an option. I did recommend considering an IVA does this effect his current directorship or is he better resigning, reappointing a new director and just being the major shareholder?

Does the debt company have a right to enforce the £100 charge?

What should be his next move?.

While I am experienced in advising creditors its not easy sitting on the other side of the fence.

My friend is a PH'r and I have said to him to keep an eye on this forum.

Thanks for any positive input guys

[ThatPhilBrettGuy]

jamesuk28 said:

1. He had made every reasonable attempt to pay on time

What was the time period between when he knew he had to pay the £1k and the day he tried to ring? That'll make some difference to the courts (if it gets that far).

[jamesuk28]

Mmmmm not sure,but will ask.

[trunnie]

Unlikely that they'll make him bankrupt for 10k - not sure what you advise your clients James, but they may issue a stat demand as it is effectively free but unlikely that it will be followed by a petition given the costs. I once bankrupted somebody for less than £2k but then he was stupid enough to owe the money to a partner of the law firm that I worked for (hence no legal fees for the partner).

The answer is to push it out of the hands of the debt recovery company and back to the Bank. The debt is with the Bank, so make a complaint to the Bank about the debt recovery company's behaviour. Either they deal with it if so fine or if not then go straight to the Financial Omnbudsman with a complaint (website is very helpful). A complaint to the FO costs banks about £450 win or lose - but the complainant pays nothing. Also the FO takes a reasoned view of things on the basis of fairness. The Bank is normally likely to come around to a reasonable proposal. I agree with you that the demand for £100 is nonsense - your friend has no contract with the debt recovery company for it to be enforceable. Basically push the matter back to the Bank is probably the best strategy. A polite and balanced letter to the CEO of the Bank would also be a part of the strategy at the same time as working through the Bank's complaints procedure.

[jamesuk28]

trunnie said:

Unlikely that they'll make him bankrupt for 10k - not sure what you advise your clients James, but they may issue a stat demand as it is effectively free but unlikely that it will be followed by a petition given the costs. I once bankrupted somebody for less than £2k but then he was stupid enough to owe the money to a partner of the law firm that I worked for (hence no legal fees for the partner).

The answer is to push it out of the hands of the debt recovery company and back to the Bank. The debt is with the Bank, so make a complaint to the Bank about the debt recovery company's behaviour. Either they deal with it if so fine or if not then go straight to the Financial Omnbudsman with a complaint (website is very helpful). A complaint to the FO costs banks about £450 win or lose - but the complainant pays nothing. Also the FO takes a reasoned view of things on the basis of fairness. The Bank is normally likely to come around to a reasonable proposal. I agree with you that the demand for £100 is nonsense - your friend has no contract with the debt recovery company for it to be enforceable. Basically push the matter back to the Bank is probably the best strategy. A polite and balanced letter to the CEO of the Bank would also be a part of the strategy at the same time as working through the Bank's complaints procedure.

Thanks. I did recommend that "John" approach the bank with a view to making a formal complaint, I believe that this is an option he is considering.

Regarding the Stat demand, technically anybody can issue one for peanuts but if its to be done without a hitch we always recommend its drafted correctly (ideally by a Solicitor) and served by a process server with an Affidavit of service. This obviously costs, usually ultimately bourne by the Debtor and circa £120 - £200. We have numerous clients every month that have "Googled" statutory demands, filled them out incorrectly and "bunged" them in the post, obviously to zero effect as they have not been served correctly.

Regarding serving the petition costs could be £1000 un contensted rising to £2500 if contested all a big risk if it goes t1ts up as "John" could be liable for them. We seriously consider bankruptcy as an option (dependant on the debtors position) for debts of £5k+ Our thoughts are to consider an IVA and start again.

[Boosted LS1]

Balls in their court, he should wait to see what they do. Probably not a lot. Why didn't he set up a direct debit if he'd made an payment arrangement? I think he should make the payment asap though and then put into action a proper payment plan. As for the £100, forget it.

[Soir]

I worked in debt recovery many moons ago - they write off enourmous amounts each year in uncollected debt.

basically most of them want something rather than nothing - therefore if they believe there is a high risk that they will get nothing - then they may take 50/60% of the total debt.

the best story for them to believe that they may not get the money back is to say you are moving abroad - and to say no other ties...i.e. no mortgage etc (so they believe you) say your moving abroad and that you have limited amount of money to pay debt off - make them an offer...negotiate a bit and see what you get back

[JustinP1]

Soir said:

I worked in debt recovery many moons ago - they write off enourmous amounts each year in uncollected debt.

basically most of them want something rather than nothing - therefore if they believe there is a high risk that they will get nothing - then they may take 50/60% of the total debt.

the best story for them to believe that they may not get the money back is to say you are moving abroad - and to say no other ties...i.e. no mortgage etc (so they believe you) say your moving abroad and that you have limited amount of money to pay debt off - make them an offer...negotiate a bit and see what you get back

I would agree with that.

My only experience was being hassled for a business debt with a personal guarantee. They threatened me with court orders, a charge on my house etc for a few weeks.

They ended up taking 33% in cash, it a lump sum rather than stringing it out.

[M400 NBL]

I had a call from my Dad telling me that a baliff was at his house to collect money I owed for a parking ticket.

I'd actually written a letter to the council to appeal against the ticket and heard nothing back. I assumed that was the end. I'd moved since but my Dad always bought my mail round if I hadn't visited so I had no reason to think it had gone any further.

I asked the baliff to visit me at work but he was unable to that day so he visited the next day. As annoyed as I was, I knew I had to pay them and them claim it back afterwards.

So the baliff turns up the next day....and has the cheek to try to charge me about £90 extra because it was nother day.I told him he didn't have a chance of getting any more since he could have visited the day after (it's only 6 miles from my Dad's home). There were a few swear words thrown in and I didn't pay any more that the original debt.

Long story short. I can't see them chasing you for the extra £100 if you insist that you believe that they either didn't do enough to answer calls...or you believe they chose not to answer calls in order to make more money.

They should have an automated service to make payment easier anyway.

[jamesuk28]

Yep, dont forget all debt collectors / bailiffs are utter utter c**ts until we are collecting your money, then we are the best thing since sliced bread.

[thehawk]

jamesuk28 said:

Yep, dont forget all debt collectors / bailiffs are utter utter c**ts until we are collecting your money, then we are the best thing since sliced bread.

No, they are still c**ts, it's just that people are forced to use them.

[jamesuk28]

thehawk said:

jamesuk28 said:

Yep, dont forget all debt collectors / bailiffs are utter utter c**ts until we are collecting your money, then we are the best thing since sliced bread.

No, they are still c**ts, it's just that people are forced to use them.

I think a lot of my clients would disagree with that, but hay ho.

[thehawk]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes, deliberate/professional debtors fit that description. However anyone in the debt industry can hardly complain as they provide the reason for their existence.

Now it would be silly to say 100% of people are c*nts, but it is true that certain industries attract a certain type of person and a certain type of personality.

[jamesuk28]

thehawk said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes, deliberate/professional debtors fit that description. However anyone in the debt industry can hardly complain as they provide the reason for their existence.

Now it would be silly to say 100% of people are c*nts, but it is true that certain industries attract a certain type of person and a certain type of personality.

There speaketh a man who has possibly been on the wrong side of a debt collector. Wait until some tosser has tried to stich you up for a few grand and "the debt collectors" have got your hard earned and owed money back through thick and thin, I think then you may see things a bit more clearly. We do a job, a dirty and sometimes plain nasty job,and yes you are right it takes a certain type of person otherwise we would not be required. Dont be so quick to judge, you may need us one day.

Edited by jamesuk28 on Tuesday 29th July 20:42

[M400 NBL]

jamesuk28 said:

thehawk said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes, deliberate/professional debtors fit that description. However anyone in the debt industry can hardly complain as they provide the reason for their existence.

Now it would be silly to say 100% of people are c*nts, but it is true that certain industries attract a certain type of person and a certain type of personality.

There speaketh a man who has possibly been on the wrong side of a debt collector. Wait until some tosser has tried to stich you up for a few grand and "the debt collectors" have got your hard earned and owed money back through thick and thin, I think then you may see things a bit more clearly. We do a job, a dirty and sometimes plain nasty job,and yes you are right it takes a certain type of person otherwise we would not be required. Dont be so quick to judge, you may need us one day.

Edited by jamesuk28 on Tuesday 29th July 20:42

James, you started a thread about an unreasonable debt collection agency....and then slate anyone that has done the same.

I don't believe every debt collector is a thug. The one that collected from me spoke politely and was reasonobale, all though I had to insist I wouldn't pay the extra £90 or so for the extra day he took to visit my place of work.

That's what annoys most people. People do make mistakes and get themselves into debt. But to add £90 or more for every day they can't pay is taking the ps

[jamesuk28]

M400 NBL said:

jamesuk28 said:

thehawk said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes, deliberate/professional debtors fit that description. However anyone in the debt industry can hardly complain as they provide the reason for their existence.

Now it would be silly to say 100% of people are c*nts, but it is true that certain industries attract a certain type of person and a certain type of personality.

There speaketh a man who has possibly been on the wrong side of a debt collector. Wait until some tosser has tried to stich you up for a few grand and "the debt collectors" have got your hard earned and owed money back through thick and thin, I think then you may see things a bit more clearly. We do a job, a dirty and sometimes plain nasty job,and yes you are right it takes a certain type of person otherwise we would not be required. Dont be so quick to judge, you may need us one day.

Edited by jamesuk28 on Tuesday 29th July 20:42

James, you started a thread about an unreasonable debt collection agency....and then slate anyone that has done the same.

I don't believe every debt collector is a thug. The one that collected from me spoke politely and was reasonobale, all though I had to insist I wouldn't pay the extra £90 or so for the extra day he took to visit my place of work.

That's what annoys most people. People do make mistakes and get themselves into debt. But to add £90 or more for every day they can't pay is taking the ps

I agree, most bailiff charges are p takes. But the flip side is the client / creditor does not have to pay the bailiff charges they are self funding. Why should the creditor be out of pocket everytime the bailiff visits? because someone cant pay their debts.

Lets not forget the bailiffs act after judgement, ie the debtor has had ample time in which to pay usually months before the hearing, 28 days after judgement yet they complain about extra costs. If they ignore the judgement as happens, they must expect the recovery costs to increase.

The £90 will be per visit, this is to deter debtors from arranging for a bailiff to call only then not to answer the door or "be out". I agree though in the earlier post the charge was a blatant p take.

The original post is about something completely different, "John" had made every reasonable effort to pay on time, there were no increased costs for the debt collection company in question, hence charging the £100 was out of order. Same if you had arranged for a bailiff to call today and he did not, he cant then turn up tomorrow when you are out and charge you, and that sentiment applies to the earlier "bailiff reply"

I believe we act in a very proffessional manner, that can be demonstrated in the fact we have picked up 4 new clients this year who we were originally collecting from ie they were debtors of our clients.
Obviously we can only act in such circumstances once the original matter has been concluded.

[ThatPhilBrettGuy]

jamesuk28 said:

..."John" had made every reasonable effort to pay on time...

Did you get an answer to this question?

[jamesuk28]

Hi yes looks like it. He has contacted, as we first suggested, the OFT and stuck to his guns, they have contacted the debt company in question with the complaint. They now have a period of time in which to respond.