Finding out if a company is VAT registered

[miniandy]

Is there any way to find out if a company is VAT registered if you have the name and company number? I don't want to ask them directly, but would like to know.

Cheers

[Plotloss]

Have you got an invoice from them?

Legal requirement to show VAT number on an invoice if VAT registered.

[miniandy]

No, not yet, I will be buying something from them in the coming days, but wanted to check the company out a bit before committing. They're LTD if that helps?

[Plotloss]

You can be Ltd but not VAT registered.

[miniandy]

Ah right, so I'll need a bit more info first then? I thought there might be a tool similar to the Corgi checker system.

[Plotloss]

I think you'll need an invoice essentially, from another customer of the company perhaps?

[miniandy]

Difficult. I'm dealing with them over the phone at the moment. Would companies house hold more info do you think?

[Plotloss]

Companies House will show registered office, company registration number etc.

There is a VAT number validator on the HMRC website but without the number that is no use.

Are they likely to be doing over £64K of business a year?

If so then they have to be VAT registered.

[miniandy]

Just got the details from their website. I would imagine they are VAT registered; from what the seller told me their turnover is £10m! Pinch of salt maybe?

[Eric Mc]

What's the problem with asking them directly?

Turnover may not be an indicator of their VAT status either.

They could have subtantial VAT Exempt sales for instance which might mean that they have no need to register.

They could be based outside the EU (Jersey for instance).

[paoloh]

Something was invented a few years ago that may help:

A phone!

[miniandy]

If they aren't vat registered, that isn't necessarily a bad thing then?

[Batfink]

only issue I see is if you want to be able to claim back VAT on whatever you are purchasing...

[Eric Mc]

Batfink said:

only issue I see is if you want to be able to claim back VAT on whatever you are purchasing...

Should make no difference if buyer is VAT registered.

Scenario 1 - VAT registered trader selling to VAT registered trader.
Sale Item £100.00 plus £15.00 VAT. Total Sale Price - £115.00. Buyer reclaims the £15.00 VAT therefore real cost to buyer - £100.00


Scenario 2 - Non-VAT registered trader selling to VAT regsitered trader.
Sale item £100.00 - No VAT charged. Cost to buyer £100.00.
Same as in Scenario 1.

It does make a difference if the buyer is nmot VAT registered.

Scenario 3 - VAT registered trader selling to non-VAT registered buyer.
Sale item - £100.00 plus £15.00. Full sale price - £115.00.
Buyer cannot reclaim VAT therefore full cost price to buyer - £115.00.

[anonymous-user]

Eric Mc said:

Batfink said:

only issue I see is if you want to be able to claim back VAT on whatever you are purchasing...

Should make no difference if buyer is VAT registered.

Scenario 1 - VAT registered trader selling to VAT registered trader.
Sale Item £100.00 plus £15.00 VAT. Total Sale Price - £115.00. Buyer reclaims the £15.00 VAT therefore real cost to buyer - £100.00


Scenario 2 - Non-VAT registered trader selling to VAT regsitered trader.
Sale item £100.00 - No VAT charged. Cost to buyer £100.00.
Same as in Scenario 1.

It does make a difference if the buyer is nmot VAT registered.

Scenario 3 - VAT registered trader selling to non-VAT registered buyer.
Sale item - £100.00 plus £15.00. Full sale price - £115.00.
Buyer cannot reclaim VAT therefore full cost price to buyer - £115.00.

However the non VAT registered seller may not be able to sell at that rate as they would not be able to reclaim the VAT on their purchase??

[Eric Mc]

Of course.

In reality, there may be a mix of registered and non-registered traders in the supply chain - so it makes the whole thing rather complex.

[mrmr96]

If you know the company number you can look up their accounts and check their turnover. If they are making vatable supplies over a certain threshold then they are required to register and charge VAT.

Failing that, why not just ask them for their VAT number and then validate it? (Hide your phone number and put on a funny voice if you think it neccessary.)

[Eric Mc]

mrmr96 said:

If you know the company number you can look up their accounts and check their turnover. If they are making vatable supplies over a certain threshold then they are required to register and charge VAT.

Failing that, why not just ask them for their VAT number and then validate it? (Hide your phone number and put on a funny voice if you think it neccessary.)

You won't be able to tell by looking at turnover figures only whether the sales a business are making are "VATable supplies".
Also, if the company has a turnover less than £5.6 million, it will almost definitely have availed oif the ability to submit Abbreviated Accounts, which do not show turnover figures anyway.

[mrmr96]

Eric Mc said:

mrmr96 said:

If you know the company number you can look up their accounts and check their turnover. If they are making vatable supplies over a certain threshold then they are required to register and charge VAT.

Failing that, why not just ask them for their VAT number and then validate it? (Hide your phone number and put on a funny voice if you think it neccessary.)

You won't be able to tell by looking at turnover figures only whether the sales a business are making are "VATable supplies".
Also, if the company has a turnover less than £5.6 million, it will almost definitely have availed oif the ability to submit Abbreviated Accounts, which do not show turnover figures anyway.

Indeed. I apprieciate that checking the turnover will not help in all circumstances (such as those where it is either not disclosed or its vatable element is not clear), but in some it might (such as where turnover and type of supply is known).

I know that you can't tell what the vatable element of a turnover figure is, but if you know the nature of the business then you can make an assumption about the proportion of vatable supplies, which in many, but not all, cases is 100% vatable or 100% not.